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  1. #1
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    Default No Confidence Vote

    Does anyone have any input or experience on conducting a no confidence vote of the chief? We are a combo department, also an IAFF local. Our chief has shown us time and time again that he is not willing to work with us and it is time for him to go. Any input would be helpful.... Thanks and be safe!

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  2. #2
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    in the 90's, our department ousted a chief with a vote of no confidence, among a bunch of other charges. I can set you up with some of the guys that were Union Officers back then, send me a private message with your phone number/email address and I can pass it along

  3. #3
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    If you are heading towards a "no confidence" vote...be sure to have each and every one of your ducks lined up in a row, in other words..documentation of past occurrences, grievances filed, etc.

    Be sure that the people who want to have the Local have the no confidence vote are doing it for legitimate reasons, not because they are piissed off at the Chief over something incredibly stupid that could have been resolved with a simple conversation.

    Remember.. the local can hold a no confidence vote, but the Mayor, City manager and trhe politicians can love him/her and he/she will still be the Chief in the long run.

    Be very careful what you wish for.. you just might get it.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  4. #4
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    Default

    We took a vote of no confidence on our chief in the fall of 2004; it did nothing except make things worse for us.
    Our chief at the time regularly violated the contract, mishandled several different disciplinary actions, and held a level of secrecy over the membership that was detrimental to the members. Above all though, he failed to maintain open dialogue with the local. After the vote was taken, relations between us became significantly worse.
    The good thing is that our chiefís position is only on 4 year terms.

    Check with the brothers from St. Paul, MN. They also took a no confidence vote recently, SPFDRum would be able to help you out.
    Last edited by jasper45; 07-12-2007 at 11:17 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default

    I would not say that we are on that road just yet, I think we are just in the facts finding stage, I for one really dont want to go this way, it would be a whole lot easier if he would just retire. As for the council, most of them like us and I am pretty sure they are maxed out with him also. In any event any info I gather will be helpful.

    thanks

  6. #6
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    Default

    Sounds like we have the same situation. Our Chief thinks things can still be done like the old days. Not to mention that he thinks he's the commissioner of NYC. He'll lie to save his hide and likes to blame the union for different SOG's. Like we run the show. He has one year left, everytime we have a problem with something he likes to remind us that he's got 12 months left and doesn't care. Detrimental to the morale of the department. Hopefully the year will go by quickly.

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber dday05's Avatar
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    I agree with whats been said. Make sure you have your ducks in a row. Afterall anyone could pull of a "no confidence vote" You need to back it up.

  8. #8
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    I've never been through one, but like Gonzo says, be careful what you wish for. I'd make sure that it's the very last resort. Make sure you've done everything possibly to avoid a no confidence vote before you go through with it. I assume you've tried filing a grievance, meetings with Local leadership and the council/mayor, etc?

  9. #9
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    Default thanks

    thanks for all the help and input, I really hope we dont have to go through with this, Chief has decided to take somewhat of an extended vacation so maybe he will return and decide to retire, we shall see, thanks again and be safe.

  10. #10
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    Angry

    Interesting thread subject. We've got an idiot box in play here too at this station and it's proving to be impossible to get rid of him / them. Unfortunately in our case there are so many idiots in upper management that we can't tell where the crap ends and the lies begin. We have no idea where it originates- but no matter who you talk to it always seems to come from somewhere else.

    Best of luck to you guys also suffering the woes of an idiot... we're in the thick of it too.


    B.
    B. Bloggins
    AFD / FOD
    "Sometimes, what 'they' know CAN hurt you."

  11. #11
    Forum Member FiremedicMike's Avatar
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    Default

    We did it in 2005 i think it was, end of 2004 leading to 2005. We are a department with 33 line firefighters, and it was 32 yes and 1 abstain. This was, as stated by our mayor at the time, the final step to cement the termination of our chief. I'm not going to get into all the specifics of that whole situation because it would take hours and confuse you, but thats that.

    Anyhow, it didn't do crap, the Chief was brought back to full duty after 106 days of paid administrative leave (total time of the investigation) and he's no different, no changes, no better no worse. Once the vote was passed, no union cavalry came charging down the shoot to put us on TV and save us from the evil boss, they mayor didn't throw her arms up in the horror and scream "oh its so bad there i'm so sorry".

    It just didn't do crap..

  12. #12
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    Default well this is a tough one

    on the one hand you can take the vote and get the "bad" chief out, but what happens when the mayor gets another political suck-*** to take his spot?

    On the other hand you take the vote and the mayor does nothing. Now you have a very upset fire chief that will follow the general orders/sog's/ contract to a tee and all of the "little things" you used to get away with becomes a paper trail to "vote" you out.


    Just becareful on what you ask for, because you might not like the outcome.


    Stay Safe

    Tommygo

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