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  1. #1
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    Default UFA, Vulcans At Odds on Bias Suit

    The Chief-Leader

    Both Seek to Intervene
    UFA, Vulcans At Odds on Bias Suit


    By ARI PAUL

    In the U.S. Department of Justice's lawsuit against the city accusing the Fire Department of using two racially discriminatory entrance exams, the firefighters' union and the force's African-American fraternal group are, not untypically, on opposite sides of the dispute.


    JOHN COOMBS: Demanding say in case.

    The Uniformed Firefighters' Association filed a motion to intervene July 11 on the side of the city in the case filed in late May.

    Vulcans Also Want In

    Richard Levy, a lawyer for the Vulcan Society of African-American firefighters, stated in a letter to the DOJ that the group planned to file a complaint in intervention by July 13. The Vulcans filed discrimination charges with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission in 2002, which led to an investigation by the Justice Department and ultimately to this lawsuit.

    "We're not going to put all our eggs in their basket," said John Coombs, president of the Vulcans, in explaining why the group wanted a direct role in the case.

    While not in agreement with the society's course of action, UFA President Steve Cassidy has stated that the department should put more emphasis on the physical exam rather than the written exam, and that it should focus recruiting efforts on people leaving the military. This, he said, would result in a better-skilled and more racially diverse firefighting force.


    STEVE CASSIDY: Sides with FDNY.

    Mr. Cassidy said in the motion that the exams "hardly seem discriminatory."

    "The UFA opposes any form of illegal discrimination," said union lawyer Michael Block in a statement. "We welcome all qualified applicants to the ranks of the FDNY regardless of race, gender, religion or nationality. We believe that the ability to read, write and understand written and verbal instruction is more essential than ever for today's firefighting force."

    "It's not surprising from my point of view," said Capt. Paul Washington, the former president of the Vulcans, regarding the UFA's support of the city. "Anything that looks like it's going to bring more blacks on the job, they're going against it."

    May Affect Incumbents

    Shayana Kadidal, a lawyer for the Vulcans, speculated that unions like the UFA would intervene in litigation because the remedy the court would hand down could affect hiring and seniority. He did not think the UFA's intention to intervene would complicate the case.

    "I don't think they're going to have any significant role to play," he said.

    The Vulcans have long protested what they feel is systemic racism in the department. The tests, the group has claimed, were filled with irrelevant and confusing questions that had little to do with one's ability to become a firefighter. The DOJ stated in its lawsuit that the disparity in passing rates between minority and white applicants, the latter of whom scored higher, was statistically significant.

    Less than 3 percent of the city's firefighters are African-American, and the number has remained static for the last 10 years, said Mr. Coombs. Latinos make up more than 4 percent of the 11,000-member firefighting force. Lawyers for the Vulcans claimed there are more minorities in departments in cities such as Chicago, Boston and Los Angeles.

    Protecting Their Interests

    Mr. Kadidal stressed the importance of the Vulcans' direct involvement in the lawsuit.

    "There's always the notion [that] at some point in litigation parties' interests can diverge," he said. "The Justice Department doesn't technically represent the Vulcans. All in all, it's a prudent thing for parties to intervene in cases where they brought the charge."

    The department is still appointing Firefighters from lists resulting from the tests under challenge. Mr. Kadidal believed that if the DOJ wins its case, hundreds of minority applicants could be appointed to the department.

    The lawsuit has its critics, including Dominick DeRubbio, who is leading a group of firefighters challenging the current written test - which the Vulcans also have objected to - as being too subjective and poorly administered.

    "It was so easy," he said of the two previous exams.

    City: They Have No Case

    Mayor Bloomberg and Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta have vowed to fight the DOJ's case. City Corporation Counsel Michael A. Cardozo formally denied the allegations and asked the court to dismiss the case last month.

    "Plaintiff cannot establish that Exams Nos. 7029 and 2043 had unlawful disparate impact on black and Hispanic candidates," he wrote. "There does not exist a pattern or practice of discrimination against blacks and Hispanics in the selection and appointment process for entry-level FDNY firefighter."

    But Mr. Kadidal was unfazed, claiming that the evidence against the city was strong.

    "The EEOC and the DOJ have concluded that there are violations of Title VII," he said, referring to the Civil Rights Act. "One hopes that the union isn't defending violations of Title VII."


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    Default Fire union prez fans flames in exam-bias suit

    Fire union prez fans flames in exam-bias suit
    BY JOHN MARZULLI
    DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

    Monday, July 16th 2007, 4:00 AM


    Firefighters Union President Stephen Cassidy has filed a racially explosive affidavit defending the FDNY against charges that its written exams discriminate against minority-group candidates, the Daily News has learned.

    "Basic intelligence is an important asset for firefighters, and ignoring that fact will imperil the safety of the firefighting force," Cassidy wrote in the affidavit filed in Brooklyn Federal Court.

    The Uniformed Firefighters Association affidavit comes in response to a lawsuit by the Justice Department, which followed a two-year investigation into FDNY hiring practices.

    The feds allege that two FDNY entrance exams, offered in 1999 and 2002, did not accurately judge whether an applicant could perform the job of firefighter. The test was unfair to African-Americans and Hispanics, the suit charges.

    But Cassidy, in defense of the FDNY, suggests that candidates who couldn't handle the written exams don't have the right stuff.

    "The job requires not only physical strength, but also an alert and keen mind," Cassidy said in the affidavit.

    "Firefighters are now extensively trained to deal with hazardous materials, possible terrorism and environmental issues unknown years ago," he said. "There is no doubt that intelligence and ability to read and understand are important traits for firefighters."

    John Coombs, president of the FDNY Vulcan Society, which represents black firefighters, called Cassidy's comments "totally racially insensitive."

    "What right does he have to assume the level of one's intelligence is based on an exam that has never been validated?" Coombs asked yesterday.

    The affidavit also creates a stigma for current and future minority-group firefighters, Coombs said.

    "His comments are like saying, 'If you're not Irish or Italian, how did you get here?'" Coombs said. "He's insulting all New Yorkers with his rhetoric and language."

    The FDNY's racial demographics have long been controversial. Only about 3% of approximately 11,000 firefighters are black, and 4.5% are Hispanic, even though the two groups make up more than half of the city's population.

    The union hopes to join forces with city lawyers battling the lawsuit, and Brooklyn Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis is weighing that request.

    Cassidy contends the union will be harmed by any outcome of the lawsuit that diminishes the importance of the written exam or creates a "pass-fail" system that would render the ranked hiring lists obsolete.

    He also argues the UFA is concerned the city might agree to a settlement that could lead to a "preferential hiring system" for black and Hispanic candidates to avoid the embarrassment of being found guilty of discrimination.

    The city has created a new written exam, but it continues to hire firefighters from two older lists the Justice Department contends are discriminatory.

    FTM-PTB

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    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default You don't get it Fred

    Everyone wants to be treated equally until its time to be treated equally.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT View Post
    Everyone wants to be treated equally until its time to be treated equally.
    Testify, bro!

    It appears that the Vulcans think that they are entitled to be more equal than others...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    My favorite part is this...

    "His comments are like saying, 'If you're not Irish or Italian, how did you get here?'" Coombs said. "He's insulting all New Yorkers with his rhetoric and language."
    The only insulting language and rhetoric comes from this Dark skinned Klansman who claims blacks and hispanics are incapable of competing with whites in a simple 6th grade level exam...that is what should be most insulting!

    It should have said:

    Coombs assertions that blacks can't pass a written exam that most 3rd grade children could pass is like saying "If you are black you are genetically predisposed to being dumb and incapable of learning simple cognitaive abilties and simple reasoning in school and will never get ahead in life without a hand out from the "Man" himself."

    That is absolutely unfortuneate that the so called leader of these guys takes such a position.

    Everyone knows how every man in the FDNY got there regardless of the color of his skin...he adequately demonstrated in a competitive civil service exam (similar to the ones used to hire Corrections, Traffic, Police...etc.) that he was the best canidate as determined by a standardized written and physcial exam (similar to what is used in schooling and in profesional sports to determine who is better than who) The idea that blacks can't compete only cheapens their accomplishments and insults their individual efforts and achivements.

    The arguments these idiot racists aren't supported by anything that could even begin to resemble logic or sound reasoning. How is it anyone gives them any legitimacy or public exposure in the media, I 'll never understand...why don't they interview some looney, drunk homeless guy with an opinion...I'll bet his position would have infinately more clarity than anything that ever came from Eastern Parkway.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 07-17-2007 at 01:13 PM.

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    I still don't understand how a test of fire ground and fire department operations knowledge could be racially biased. Is it because the questions are written in English?

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    Brothers from FDNY; are you issued a book that the written test is based on or is it based on say a basic 6th or 8th grade education?
    If either is the case, what part of being tested on study material or the ability to read and comprehend a junior high level test is discriminatory?
    Or, do I dare say, does the vulcan society believe that the average black is not smart enough to accomplish these tasks?
    In any case, what are they perpetuating?
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    how hard is it to achieve a high score when they have TEST EXAM PREP Books DEDICATED to the FDNY Exam ? There are at least...AT LEAST 5 different books that are dedicated for you to pass well achieve a high score on the test

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    Default From my neck of the woods

    White firefighters sue over promotions
    DOLTON | Claim Shaws rigged rules to favor blacks

    July 13, 2007
    BY FRANK MAIN Staff Reporter fmain@suntimes.com
    Four white part-time firefighters claim they were victims of discrimination when south suburban Dolton passed them over for promotion in favor of two black candidates whom they allege were not qualified for the job.
    The lawsuit alleges Dolton Fire Chief Jerry McCullough told the white firefighters in a meeting, "If you're not black, you're not getting hired."

    Dolton Mayor William Shaw hired two black firefighters to full-time positions on Aug. 11, 2006, even though they did not meet the requirement that they must have been part-time firefighters for at least two years, according to the civil rights lawsuit filed last week in federal court.

    Patrick Walsh -- a lawyer for white firefighters Doug Brown, Stephanie McKinley-Hart, David Shinault and Donald Shinault -- also claimed one of the black firefighters did not take the required written exam, and the other one failed the test.


    Hiring list questioned
    On Aug. 10, 2006, William Shaw and his twin brother Robert, the village inspector general, allegedly created a fake hiring list that removed the two-year part-time requirement. The Shaws back-dated the list to July 3, 2006 -- but the village clerk stamped the list Aug. 11, 2006, the lawsuit said.
    That same day, village trustees approved hiring the black firefighters.

    The Shinaults returned home from Iraq -- where they were working as contract firefighters -- after they learned of the openings for the two full-time firefighter positions.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Black Bravest press class-action bias suit

    NY DailyNews
    Posted Wednesday, July 18th 2007


    The fire department's Vulcan Society filed a federal suit yesterday seeking class action status for African-American firefighters who have been discriminated against by illegal hiring practices.

    The fraternal organization wants to join the Justice Department, which has already filed suit against the city in Brooklyn Federal Court charging that two written exams administered by the FDNY in 1999 and 2002 were unfair to black and Hispanic candidates.

    The suit seeks to represent approximately 335 black employees who "were and continue to be affected by the fact that they were delayed and impeded in their ability to obtain employment with the FDNY."

    Vulcan leader John Coombs renewed his criticism of Uniformed Firefighters Association President Stephen Cassidy for contending in court papers that "basic intelligence is an important asset for firefighters."

    "How dare President Cassidy make a statement that's so insulting to the whole of New York City?" Coombs said yesterday.

    A spokesman for Mayor Bloomberg said the city has made huge strides in improving the Fire Department's diversity.

    "Last year's successful recruitment campaign is testament to that," Jason Post said.

    Legal papers are here:
    http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/legal/justi..._Complaint.pdf

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Brothers from FDNY; are you issued a book that the written test is based on or is it based on say a basic 6th or 8th grade education?
    If either is the case, what part of being tested on study material or the ability to read and comprehend a junior high level test is discriminatory?
    Or, do I dare say, does the vulcan society believe that the average black is not smart enough to accomplish these tasks?
    In any case, what are they perpetuating?
    Both.

    The exam is supposed to be based on a 12th grade level education...but in reality most 5th graders could muster a passing grade on it.

    They also give out test prep booklets and give classes on how to take the exam...they make it so easy a Caveman could do it...(thnx Geico)

    If one puts in the effort and the time they will pass with an excellent scores and get a job in the order prescribed by Civil service law...just like every other job in the city including the ones with overwhelmingly and disporportionate representation of blacks and latinos.

    The three whinny POS who can't take respsonsiblity for their own stupidity and lack of effort in attempting to succeed at something in life are"
    • Candido Nunez a 31YO immigrated from Honduras for a handout...I suppose he should go back if life here sucks that bad! who's final score was 94.199 and was list number 5003. (ironically he is a civil servant who passed another exam to get his job! How is it this written exam isn't valid but the one he took to get his present job was?)
    • Roger Gregg a 32YO crybaby whos final score was 91.107 and list number is 6017
    • Marcus Haywood 26YO who blames the man for everything that has gone wrong in his short life, and is a disgrace and poor role model for his three sons who will grow up believing that if you fail at something in life...it must be someone elses fault...great example A**hole! final score of 85.713 and list number 6990

    The only person to blame for these rediculously low scores are these three individuals. Perhaps they didn't pay attention in High School, perhaps they skipped too much school, perhaps they are just plain dumb...who knows...but it certainly isn't the FDNY who is at fault that they are presently employed as a Civil Servant, at a Credit Union and barber respectively.

    FTM-PTB

    PS- Every hard working man of any color or race (especially black men) with an once of self-respect thank these three individuals for insulting their efforts and preserverance in working to attain something meaningful in their lives and seek to be rewarded for showing that they were better than the next man.

    You three cowards have set back your race of people once again. Great job idiots.
    Last edited by FFFRED; 07-18-2007 at 10:28 AM.

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    This is not news, it is just a fight brought out into the public. Now if the two groups actually agreed on something, anything, THAT would be news! And I would be preparing for the end of the world.
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    Fred, sounds like the vulcans are the same circus but with different clowns now that Washington is gone. My buddy works with one of them out in 225 says the guys is worthless!

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    I still cant grasp the idea that they have their own group. The whole idea just screams segregation, so why in the hell do they have it? I mean come on, they want to be treated the same, to be equal right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    I still cant grasp the idea that they have their own group. The whole idea just screams segregation, so why in the hell do they have it? I mean come on, they want to be treated the same, to be equal right?
    I think the same thing here. After all, are white FF's allowed to be part of the Vulcan Society? (serious question) Also if there is equal treatment, why the seperate society? How can one claim equality and fairness if minorities can only be members? How is THAT not discrimination?

    You have a group of FF's screaming discrimination saying a test is biased and such, yet most FF candidate books are based off of FDNY exams. Last time I looked, whites as well as minorities attended the same schools and had the same classes. How are these tests discrimitory to minorities? You can't FORCE minorities to be FF's. What does a suit like this say for the minority that studied for the test, got a good score, and got the job. Not because of skin color, but because of merit, does this mean the test is discrimitory to them too?

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    Editorial July 27, 2007

    The Chief-Leader


    UFA HEAD'S STANCE NOT RACIAL

    Five years ago, Steve Cassidy won election as president of the Uniformed Firefighters Association in part because he led the charge against a Fire Department plan for a commemorative statue showing the raising of a flag by three firefighters who were white, black and Latino.

    Mr. Cassidy argued that this was a politically correct attempt to distort the reality that it was three white firefighters who had raised the flag at Ground Zero the day after the destruction of the World Trade Center.

    His insistence that the statue be true to the facts, as we said at the time, missed the emotional reality behind the FDNY idea: that each ethnic group it sought to depict had suffered serious losses on 9/11 in proportion to its representation in the uniformed ranks. That should have mattered far more than staying true to what amounted to a moving photo opportunity - and not even an original concept, since it had been done before following the battle for Iwo Jima during World War II.

    In that case, Mr. Cassidy engaged in racial politics. We do not believe, however, that he is guilty of such a practice - contrary to what was charged by an advocate for black firefighters - in supporting the Bloomberg administration's defense of the 1999 and 2002 exams for Firefighter.

    The UFA led by Mr. Cassidy has sought to intervene in the case in which the U.S. Department of Justice is suing the city for holding exams it believes discriminated against minority candidates. The suit is not based on any inherent bias in the questions, but rather the fact that minorities did not perform as well as white candidates, with the discrepancy considered statistically significant.

    Paul Washington, the former president of the FDNY Vulcan Society, a black fraternal group, said last week that Mr. Cassidy's stance was another case of his "playing racial politics." He cited as proof a letter from U.S. Rep. Charles Rangel recounting a meeting a year ago in which Mr. Cassidy was stated to have supported making future written exams pass/fail while holding more rigorous physical exams for Firefighter.

    A spokesman for Mr. Cassidy did not dispute that account last week, which was somewhat surprising. Even if so, however, that would not make his position in defense of the 1999 and 2002 exams inconsistent.

    Those hired as Firefighters as a result of their scores on those exams are UFA members, and it is Mr. Cassidy's duty to protect their interests. Any change in how those exams and lists are used - most probably through the upgrading of minority candidates, which could come with retroactive seniority - could have an impact on those already on the job. And a larger issue affecting the entire UFA membership is the possibility of the creation of quota hiring - something the union has historically opposed and that would be unpopular, to put it mildly, with the rank and file.

    Mr. Cassidy realizes, as does the Fire Department, that the firefighting force should be more diversified than it presently is, with more than 90 percent of uniformed personnel white and 99 percent of it male. He has made constructive, practical suggestions about how to better integrate the ranks: besides placing more emphasis on the physical exam, he has called for stepped-up recruitment from the military.

    Making that a priority, it would seem to us, would have the potential to bring more minorities and women into the job on their own capabilities, rather than being aided by a quota that would inevitably carry a stigma.

    The Vulcans have argued that many questions on the past Firefighter exams were irrelevant or confusing. But the Justice Department lawsuit does not fault the tests for being insufficiently job-related; it merely takes issue with the results.

    It is not insignificant that the FDNY Hispanic Society is at odds with the Vulcans about whether the tests were discriminatory. Its president, Fire Lieut. Miguel Ramos, told this newspaper that he didn't believe either exam cited in the lawsuit was unfair, noting, "I didn't have major complaints from my membership."

    Civil service exams aren't perfect, but they have long been regarded as the most objective measure of a candidate's ability to perform a particular job.

    There are those who believe too much emphasis is placed on the tests, and that strong on-the-job training can determine whether candidates who weren't top scorers have the aptitude to be capable.

    More than 20 years ago, an attempt to increase minorities in the NYPD brought a simpler written test that one city personnel expert decried as something that a "functional illiterate" could pass. The Police Commissioner at the time, Ben Ward, brushed off that complaint, saying in his inimitable style that he had "worked with dumb cops all my life" and that those who really lacked the skills would eventually be weeded out.

    But over the last dozen years, the NYPD has gone the other way, insisting that all candidates for the job have at least 60 college credits unless they are veterans of military service. Raising education standards has not hurt minority representation; in fact, each succeeding police class in recent years has had more minorities.

    We believe Mr. Cassidy makes a valid point in his affidavit defending the city when he notes that the "extensive training on the use of sophisticated computerized equipment" makes it essential to have well-educated Firefighters who can perform well on a written test. There's nothing especially racial, or political, about that stance.

    FTM-PTB

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    Default The Chief-Leader

    News of the week July 27, 2007

    Rip Support of Fire Test: Accuse UFA Head Of Racial Politics

    By ARI PAUL

    An advocate for black firefighters last week accused Uniformed Firefighters Association President Steve Cassidy of "playing racial politics" in siding with the city as it defends past tests for Firefighter against Federal charges of bias.


    PAUL WASHINGTON: Takes on Cassidy.

    A spokesman for Mr. Cassidy scoffed at the charge by Fire Capt. Paul Washington, a past president of the FDNY Vulcan Society, saying the UFA leader was merely trying to insure that rigorous standards for the job were upheld.

    Exam Suit Flashpoint

    Mr. Washington made his comments during a July 17 press conference on the steps of City Hall at which Vulcans' officials and their lawyers protested the UFA's motion to intervene as a party defendant in the lawsuit filed by the U.S. Department of Justice alleging that two previous exams for Firefighter had a discriminatory impact on black and Latino applicants.

    The Vulcans claim that the tests have kept minority representation in the firefighting force mired at just above seven percent.


    STEVE CASSIDY: Exam scores matter.

    Manhattan State Sen. Bill Perkins said "racism" was the only reason he could see for the UFA's position in defense of the 1999 and 2002 Firefighter exams.

    "We wonder why UFA President Cassidy would side with the city," said John Coombs, president of the Vulcans. "The testing mechanism needs to be changed."

    The Vulcans believed that Mr. Cassidy's decision to intervene on the city's side contradicted his earlier positions.

    Cassidy's Arguments

    "Firefighters today undergo extensive training on the use of sophisticated computerized equipment," Mr. Cassidy wrote in an affidavit. "The job requires not only physical strength, but also an alert and keen mind, the importance of which should not be underestimated."

    He went on to say that the UFA wished to offer evidence contrary to the Vulcans' belief that the exams in question were meaningless and that new written tests should be "pass/fail."

    The Vulcans cited a letter U.S. Rep. Charles Rangel wrote to Mayor Bloomberg June 26, 2006 reporting on a meeting he facilitated between then-Vulcan President Washington and Mr. Cassidy about the current written exam, which is not at issue in the lawsuit.


    The Chief-Leader/Pat Arnow

    WANTS TESTING MECHANISM SCRAPPED: Vulcan Society President John Coombs claims the city's Firefighter exams are biased against minorities and don't offer a true measure of the best candidates for the job. Looking on are lawyers Richard Levy, left, and Shayana Kadidal of the Center for Constitutional Rights.



    Urged 'Pass/Fail' Test

    He wrote that "an agreement was reached with respect to the upcoming firefighter examination in that the written portion of the examination should be changed to pass/fail test with the physical examination made a bit more challenging with the applicant receiving a numerical score."

    Mr. Cassidy has been vocal in the past in saying that the physical exam is more important than the written exam, a point on which the Vulcans agree. He has also said the Fire Department should recruit from the military, which he predicted would increase the number of minority applications.

    Captain Washington added that Mr. Cassidy's stance regarding the lawsuit was indicative of his record even before he became the union's president.

    Previous Record

    In early 2002, Mr. Cassidy, then a rank-and-file Firefighter, gained media attention by circulating a petition to keep a statue that was to be erected in front of Fire Department headquarters from depicting the three firefighters who raised a flag at Ground Zero after 9/11 - who were white - as African-American, Latino and white. Captain Washington believed this activism boosted Mr. Cassidy's image among the predominantly white membership and helped him win the union's top post.

    "He's playing racial politics to ensure his popularity within the union," he told reporters last week.

    UFA spokesman Tom Butler rebuffed Captain Washington's claims, saying, "Historically, the UFA has always supported a merit-based system."

    Lieut. Miguel Ramos, the president of the FDNY Hispanic Society, said his group had no plans at present to join the Vulcans.

    "I didn't have major complaints from my membership," he said, adding that he didn't think the exams under challenge were unfair.

    City Welcomes UFA

    "We welcome the UFA's support in defending the City's colorblind process for selecting firefighters in a manner that assesses candidates' ability to learn all that the job entails and become the best firefighters possible," Georgia Pestana, Chief of the Law Department's Labor and Employment Law Division, said in a statement.

    Walter Olson, a senior fellow at the conservative Manhattan Institute, defended the city's exams and commended the union.

    "There's something of a tradition in these civil service testing cases," he said of the UFA coming to the city's side. "It's reflecting the views of its membership. It's also because these are areas [where] if there are weak links, everyone may have to put out extra effort. Everyone else is put in danger if the standards are dropped too low."

    The tests, the Vulcans claimed, were filled with irrelevant and confusing questions that had little to do with one's ability to become a firefighter. The DOJ stated in its lawsuit that the disparity in passing rates between minority and white applicants, the latter of whom scored higher as a group, was statistically significant. The department is still appointing Firefighters from lists resulting from the tests under challenge.

    Prior EEOC Charges

    In 2002, the Vulcans filed discrimination charges with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission with the aid of the Center for Constitutional Rights. That led the DOJ to investigate the 1999 and 2002 exams, which resulted in this lawsuit.

    The lawsuit seeks to abolish testing that is deemed racially discriminatory. The Vulcans hope that if the government is successful, many African-American and Latino applicants who took the test will be appointed to the department.

    "The government is asking that people who have been harmed by this be made whole," said Richard Levy, a lawyer for the Vulcans, at the press conference.

    Mr. Levy said that between 30 and 50 percent of the firefighting forces in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Boston and Chicago are minorities. In the case of Los Angeles, he said, the minority rate went up after the city reformed its testing procedures and it implemented a period of preferential hiring.

    He contended that the litigation was the result of the Bloomberg administration's inaction to follow the examples of other cities.

    "There's no will within the city and the Fire Department to use the creativity to solve this problem," Mr. Levy said. "Everyone has figured it out except for New York City."

    I think they meant...everyone gave in and hired people based on skin color and not merit.

    FTM-PTB

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Both.

    The exam is supposed to be based on a 12th grade level education...but in reality most 5th graders could muster a passing grade on it.

    If one puts in the effort and the time they will pass with an excellent scores and get a job in the order prescribed by Civil service law...just like every other job in the city including the ones with overwhelmingly and disporportionate representation of blacks and latinos.

    The three whinny POS who can't take respsonsiblity for their own stupidity and lack of effort in attempting to succeed at something in life are"
    • Candido Nunez a 31YO immigrated from Honduras for a handout...I suppose he should go back if life here sucks that bad! who's final score was 94.199 and was list number 5003. (ironically he is a civil servant who passed another exam to get his job! How is it this written exam isn't valid but the one he took to get his present job was?)
    • Roger Gregg a 32YO crybaby whos final score was 91.107 and list number is 6017
    • Marcus Haywood 26YO who blames the man for everything that has gone wrong in his short life, and is a disgrace and poor role model for his three sons who will grow up believing that if you fail at something in life...it must be someone elses fault...great example A**hole! final score of 85.713 and list number 6990

    The only person to blame for these rediculously low scores are these three individuals. Perhaps they didn't pay attention in High School, perhaps they skipped too much school, perhaps they are just plain dumb...who knows...but it certainly isn't the FDNY who is at fault that they are presently employed as a Civil Servant, at a Credit Union and barber respectively.

    FTM-PTB

    PS- Every hard working man of any color or race (especially black men) with an once of self-respect thank these three individuals for insulting their efforts and preserverance in working to attain something meaningful in their lives and seek to be rewarded for showing that they were better than the next man.

    You three cowards have set back your race of people once again. Great job idiots.
    So, what consists of a passing score? A 94% isn't high enough... exactly how high do you have to score?

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    Quote Originally Posted by brnsknFF View Post
    So, what consists of a passing score? A 94% isn't high enough... exactly how high do you have to score?
    I still haven't been able to figure out how a written test (where all get the same questions) can be biased at all. Pick up the book, study the book, take some classes.

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    brnsknff, a 94 did pass. He just wasn't the highest on the list. 5002 other people scored better than he did. Why should he get preference for the job, over the thousands of others who did better? If i don't get a fire job, I want to not get it because the better applicants got hired. If i get a 94, but everyone else got a 96, that's fine. But if I got a 98, and they hire someone with a 89 over me, how is that fair?

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