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    Default Public Safety Employer-Employee Cooperation Act (H.R. 980)


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    Cool Awesome!

    Thank you, U.S. House of Representatives!

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    Good news. The clips could have been longer, I mean, I usually wear more than boots when I go into raging fires.
    "Yeah, but as I've always said, this country has A.D.D." - Denis Leary

    http://www.lettertogop.com/

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    Very good news lets hope the senate will do the same and the president will sign it.

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    Gee, look fellas! According to the National Right to Work Committee, H.R. 980 would strip firefighters of the ability to bargain as individuals!

    http://www.nrtwc.org/nl/nl200707p7.pdf

    Wow!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterSC View Post
    Gee, look fellas! According to the National Right to Work Committee, H.R. 980 would strip firefighters of the ability to bargain as individuals!
    By virtue of it being opposed by the NRTWC I know it must be a good idea. That group would send the working people back to the days of the Industrial Revolution if it could.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    The reading the NRTWC article was a complete waste of time.

    No fire department would negotiate with every single firefighter. Or would they?

    The article reminded me of the cr*p that comes out of hottrotter's highly intelligent mind.
    Last edited by SamuelFire; 07-25-2007 at 11:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuelFire View Post
    The reading the NRTWC article was a complete waste of time.

    No fire department would negotiate with every single firefighter. Or would they?

    The article reminded me of the cr*p that comes out of hottrotter's highly intelligent mind.
    The whole concept of collective bargaining is to avoid the time and energy that would be involved in negotiating with each employee in a given group. One would think there be someone who would recognize individual bargaining as counterproductive. In our department every position has a salary range. There is nothing stating that raises to higher step levels are automatic.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Collective bargaining is much more that just salary/compensation. It deals also with the deployment of the department services and what is expected of both the employer and employee.
    I believe them bones are me. Some say we are born into the grave. I feel so alone, gonna end up a big ol' pile a them bones

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    The whole concept of collective bargaining is to avoid the time and energy that would be involved in negotiating with each employee in a given group. One would think there be someone who would recognize individual bargaining as counterproductive. In our department every position has a salary range. There is nothing stating that raises to higher step levels are automatic.
    Thanks mr predictible. Do you EVER post on anything remotely related to FF (the purpose of this site)?

    No, the point of "collective bargaining" is to expand socialism and to drive home the point the you work for the union.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    No, the point of "collective bargaining" is to expand socialism and to drive home the point the you work for the union.
    Not quite but thanks for playing...the fact is the benefits I and my family enjoy today are not by the good graces and benevolence of the City of New York...they were earned by the members of my union (that is men like me, our fathers, uncles and grandfathers, not some faceless evil organization) who worked hard and stood together to demand fair compesation and worked to improve their families financial well being.

    Collective bargaining is good public policy and has been seen as such for decades now in this country. I suppose you prefer to revisit the days before unions were recognized as legitimate democratic entities that contributed positively to good sound government policy and to society as a whole?

    Take a trip out of the corn field and see what the reality is for most of us and you'll learn it doesn't quite live up to your idiological expectations.

    I've spent time in a "right to work" state...all I had was the right for me and my family to get Fist f*cked at the will of whomever happened to be in charge at that point. No thanks...never again will you see me subjecting my family to such conditions again.

    If thats the kind of life you'd rather lead and expose your family too...then more power to you.

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    No, the point of "collective bargaining" is to expand socialism and to drive home the point the you work for the union.
    And that was the exact same argument used by the Robber barons at the turn of the last century. I'm sure you would be more than happy to return to the days when employment was more like indentured servitude.

    FFFred said it better than I. Come on out of the corn field. I have worked almost 30 years in the fire department. I have yet to hear our chief or governing body say, "let's give the firefighters a couple extra percent this year outside the MOU. They've done a good job."

    Let me know when that happens to you. Then I might decide you have a point.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    To the Gentleman from Northeast Iowa... You sir are quite predictable as well. Throw a few key words such as "organized labor" "collective bargaining" and "union" and you seem to pop right up as well. Since this thread is about firefighters gaining a very basic American right, I can think of no better place then right here. The biggest joke is that the Right to Work folks think (or would like you to believe) that non-recognized firefighters have ANY real rights.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Being currently employeed by a FD in a right to work state (NC), the biggest advantage that I see for myself and fellow employees is having a minimum staffing level put into effect. Something written that says the FD has to hire back overtime to fill vacant spots to bring us up to that min staffing level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GFDLT1 View Post
    Being currently employeed by a FD in a right to work state (NC), the biggest advantage that I see for myself and fellow employees is having a minimum staffing level put into effect. Something written that says the FD has to hire back overtime to fill vacant spots to bring us up to that min staffing level.
    Can I have an Amen for my Nor Car Brother!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFDLT1 View Post
    Being currently employeed by a FD in a right to work state (NC), the biggest advantage that I see for myself and fellow employees is having a minimum staffing level put into effect. Something written that says the FD has to hire back overtime to fill vacant spots to bring us up to that min staffing level.
    This is not unique to RTW states. We have minimum staffing in our MOU.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by GFDLT1 View Post
    Being currently employeed by a FD in a right to work state (NC), the biggest advantage that I see for myself and fellow employees is having a minimum staffing level put into effect. Something written that says the FD has to hire back overtime to fill vacant spots to bring us up to that min staffing level.
    And the local that represents Virginia Beach has minimum staffing in their contract. City of Norfolk has minimum staffing. The City of New York has minimum staffing in their contract.

    If you don't ask for something, someone isn't going to volunteer it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    No, the point of "collective bargaining" is to expand socialism and to drive home the point the you work for the union.
    Hrmmm clearly you have no clue. Another person that needs a hose up his *** to clean the s*it for brains he has.

    Go climb back under a rock hell you probally aint even a firefighter just a damn MUTT you sorry piece of ****.

    All brothers should have the right to collectively bargain it has been denied way too long and the NRTWC needs to get a life also. Its a shame that someone that claims to be firefighter would not want there brothers to enjoy this freedom. I also work in a RTW state and it sucks NRTWC says its going to take away our right to bargain as individauls bull**** no firefighter here has ever been invited in and the city admin ask what are your thoughts on this or what would you like us to do for you.

    And one other thing as another brother has brought up no one in the fire service would be where were at now had it not been for the union look at the history of fire department *** hole and see what it was like back in the day and on up until the UNION got us better working hours and conditions.

    Learn the history of the fire service you sorry bastard before opening your mouth.
    Last edited by Kjohnson24; 07-25-2007 at 06:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    No, the point of "collective bargaining" is to expand socialism and to drive home the point the you work for the union.
    Never mind that powerful business interests, led by the Chamber of Commerce, lobbied extensively for right-to-work legislation in the southern states. Never mind that the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation (which purports to be a grass-roots movement) receives hundreds of thousands of dollars from organizations like the John M. Olin Foundation, Inc. (which grew out of a family manufacturing business). Yeah, we're expanding socialism all right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuelFire View Post
    The reading the NRTWC article was a complete waste of time.

    No fire department would negotiate with every single firefighter. Or would they?

    The article reminded me of the cr*p that comes out of hottrotter's highly intelligent mind.
    Actually, in the professional world each individual does negotiate their own salary. We don't have contracts so it could be here today, gone tomorrow. I know that I negotiated a decent salary, and the benefits are excellent, Imagine, dental coverage for $2 a month, or i could have taken the free coverage. 17 vacation days and 12 paid holidays, that sucks but I will take it. Of course, as a professional, if you don't produce it's out the door.

    Collective bargaining is not an individual thing, it takes all those involved and throughs them into one big pool. So the slackers get just as much as the go getters. A perfect example of this is the educational system where teachers work for 3 years, get tenure, and then they are set for life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    Actually, in the professional world each individual does negotiate their own salary. We don't have contracts so it could be here today, gone tomorrow. I know that I negotiated a decent salary, and the benefits are excellent, Imagine, dental coverage for $2 a month, or i could have taken the free coverage. 17 vacation days and 12 paid holidays, that sucks but I will take it. Of course, as a professional, if you don't produce it's out the door.

    Collective bargaining is not an individual thing, it takes all those involved and throughs them into one big pool. So the slackers get just as much as the go getters. A perfect example of this is the educational system where teachers work for 3 years, get tenure, and then they are set for life.
    And what business would this be? Are you in a position to contribute to the bottom line? In the fire service, what is your definition of being productive? We respond to emergencies. Until we can manufacture our call load, your analogy is pretty worthless.

    But that is what we've come to expect from you.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    im not even going to go there with hottrotter since sc has anwsered it well enough.

    I do rest my case from a earlier point with this MUTT
    IACOJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    And what business would this be? Are you in a position to contribute to the bottom line? In the fire service, what is your definition of being productive? We respond to emergencies. Until we can manufacture our call load, your analogy is pretty worthless.

    But that is what we've come to expect from you.
    I'm in IT security. And yes I contribute to the bottom line by staying on top of things and providing excellent customer service.

    As far as around the firehouse, think about it and look around. I haven't seen a department yet that doesn't have a slacker on staff. There is always one guy who sits back while everyone else is busting hump. The yexist and they are everywhere. If you are in a place where every person puts out 100% all the time then you are a very lucky man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    I'm in IT security. And yes I contribute to the bottom line by staying on top of things and providing excellent customer service.
    How do you contribute to the bottom line? You're in a support function for those who actually produce a product. If it weren't for hackers trying to get into your company's system, your job wouldn't exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    As far as around the firehouse, think about it and look around. I haven't seen a department yet that doesn't have a slacker on staff. There is always one guy who sits back while everyone else is busting hump. The yexist and they are everywhere. If you are in a place where every person puts out 100% all the time then you are a very lucky man.
    Lucky is my middle name. You still didn't answer how productivity should be measured.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    How do you contribute to the bottom line? You're in a support function for those who actually produce a product. If it weren't for hackers trying to get into your company's system, your job wouldn't exist.


    Lucky is my middle name. You still didn't answer how productivity should be measured.
    Actually, we provide service to our customers, the folks who pay for those services. Hackers from the outside represent 30% of the problem, you are more likely to be hacked from the inside, either intentionally or accidentally.

    All I am saying is that when you take a bunch of people and lump them all together, you are saying that they are all doing the same work equally.

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