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  1. #1
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    Default Deleting a road-side jumpseat door for safety

    Wanted to get opinions on specing a rescue truck without a road-side jumpseat door. The rescue will not be a walk-in, will have a jumpseat area for 4-6 firefighters just like the other engines currently operated, but will be the primary auto accident piece.

    It will therefore be operating on the roadway 90% of the time. I know of some companies that have procedures that dictate to not exit from the road-side door on incidents - only exit on the curbside.

    Other departments such as Kennett Square and Schodack Valley have purchased cabs with the roadside door specifically deleted to prevent FFs from exiting into traffic.

    Is this too extreme? Does it really limit you capabilities? I can "what-if" scenarios as to why not to do this, I am just looking for opinions. I fully understand that the driver still needs to exit on the road-side, but with todays in-cab pump panels, it may even be possible for the driver to have a tank-to-pump valve and a front discharge valve and charge a line without even getting out. Thanks.


  2. #2
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    What happens when you come upon an accident on a four lane highway in the left lane?
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    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  3. #3
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    Dennis beat me to it. We have many accidents that are in the left lane, or median. The apparatus is positioned in the left lane with traffic in the right lane or shoulder. In these cases, only having a door on the officer side would force people to exit into traffic.

    I would also think that in case of an accident with the rig, safety would require a door on either side.

  4. #4
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    Default Keep the door

    If exiting into traffic is a concern there are other ways to address that issue. I would not remove, or delete a door off the rear crew area. As stated above, would limit you in other instances. I would imagine you are talking about a custom cab here? If it was me specíing out the truck I would put windows in the rear wall of the cab so the crew could look back before opening the door. I would also look at putting a rear vision camera on the truck with a second monitor in the crew area. You can also have up to 3 cameras so one can be placed over each rear door. Only takes a second for the crew to take a look at either of these before jumping out. Last thing is having the truck positioned properly once on scene

  5. #5
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    Default

    Thanks for the replies, and there are no 4 lane roadways to worry about, just 2 lane roads.

    I have seen the cameras. Windows in the rear of the cab would not work, as the body of the truck "may" be 2" away.

    Sounds like a training issue would resolve it.

  6. #6
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    You can have convex mirrors mounted on the back cab so the members exiting into traffic can see before opening the doors.

  7. #7
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Use the big truck to block traffic. When arriving, pull onto the scene at an angle. Get off the truck on the backside of the angle, that keeps all members out of traffic when exiting.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  8. #8
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    We're entertaining this idea, but not really from the road safety aspect, but a functional large heated cabinet. We'd delete the seat and use the door as the access to shelving for gas meters, TIC, EMS bags, operators SCBA, and other items that are best left in the heated cab.

    BTW: Road side would imply you can't have fires on the left side of the street?

  9. #9
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    Guys, I did not want this to be a "what if" topic, but can see it has become this. I can what-if anything I want all day. Sure, you can have fires on the left side of the street. When did I imply this? It was to get ideas on how to keep people from getting killed while operating on the road.

    I like the heated cabinet idea, but I bet you can spec out a heated compartment in a body also and not use the cab. Are you implying that you can not spec out a heated compartment? See what I mean?

    I am not implying anything, just asking on thoughts to whether ommitting a jumpseat door is overkill or not.

  10. #10
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    I like your idea and the concept behind it. I would keep the doors on both sides of the crew cab area. I would just make a SOG that states to exit the passenger side unless there is a safety issue why you can't. Plus it gives you a alternate option. If you are writing specs or working with a local dealer, explaing to them what you are trying to achieve. They maybe able to come up with a alternate option to keep items in the cab heated or maximize space.

    The other thing to remember is down the road when the truck is replaced, what will the resale value be of that truck with only one passenger side crew door? I know there are no "blue book" values for fire trucks but I just think you might be limiting your department on getting the most money available for a trade-in or third party sale.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dp7197r751 View Post

    I am not implying anything, just asking on thoughts to whether ommitting a jumpseat door is overkill or not.
    Yes, I think it is.

  12. #12
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    I did not want this to be a "what if" topic
    Might be me, but when designing a truck, "what if" is a pretty important part of the process.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  13. #13
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dp7197r751 View Post
    It was to get ideas on how to keep people from getting killed while operating on the road.
    Like others have said, proper positioning of the apparatus should be all you need. Better yet, do what we do most of time, shut down the road.

    Like a lot of things in this business, you can only limit your exposer so much. If your looking to keep your members 100% safe, better stop responding to calls.

    But hey, its your rig. Do with it what you like...
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  14. #14
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    Since we in the States keep to the right, are you going to eliminate the door for the driver's position, as it opens into traffic, too?

    Here's an easier idea.

    Keep the door.. haver the driver scan the mirrors and tell the guy in the left jumpseat that it is clear to exit the rig.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Being the pestimist that I am,here's another reason NOT to delete the second LS door.If, heaven forbid,the rig was to get laid over on the right side,how are you going to get your people out? Thru the windshield? Maybe,IF YOU CAN GET THERE.Outside of that you have the drivers door which is easily compromised.I try not to put anything in the cab area but personnel whenever possible but you know how that works. T.C.

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    I am somewhat familiar with the Kennett trucks. They have a mini-command in the rear plus seating for four firefighters. There are two cameras mounted on the front officer side mirror and two monitors over the rear door to show the crew anything that may be approaching them front or rear should they need to step out in traffic. While driving the operator gets the view from the rear facing camera when he activates the turn signal. TC there is an emergency exit window on the driver side large enough for even a normal size person, like myself, to get out should the unthinkable happen. I personally think controlled exit and entry of the vehicle, together with proper positioning, gives you one more tool to help stay safe. While mentioning cameras, there is a forward facing day/night camera that records the truck when enroute to a call. This is for several reasons: Keeps the driver on his toes, gives us a fair shot if something happens and records vehicles we encounter on the way to the call and who may be standing around when we arrive. Valuable information when dealing with arsons.

  17. #17
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Hehe,spoken like a true Italian.Must be a pretty good window.You can do as you wish but my backwoods thinking says we're gonna have four REAL doors,with emergency windows. The cameras are a nice touch. T.C.

  18. #18
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    Default Mirrors for the tailboard seats?

    Just inquiring, but has anyone ever seen mirrors for the forward-facing rear jumpseats on custom cabs? This would eliminate the need for expensive cameras and asking the driver if it was safe to exit the vehicle. One of our members brought this up to me as an idea, and a convex mirror mounted on the side of the cab behind the driver's and officer's doors, similiar to the blind spot mirrors, seems like it might work.

    Thoughts?

    Iluv4201

  19. #19
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    My opinion: deleting door for storage space - ok if you need to. Deleting door for safety reasons - smoke & mirrors. Curbside vs. streetside is essentially an irrelevant debate (see latest posts in Monster Bumper thread). As others have pointed out, you are acutally limiting your safety options, as you have now forced your crew to exit streetside when DS is curbside.

    That and...a crew of 3, possibly 4 (one or two in back, respectively) might not be so bad, but unless I'm on a walk-in rescue, I'll be d**ned if I'm going to wait for three firefighters to file out the door ahead of me when I'm trying to go to work (*munchkin/clown car music plays in background*).

    On a Haz-mat type unit, it seems to make more sense. Then again, in that situation you could just stick with a two-door/walk-in.

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