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  1. #1
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    Default Are you tired of the Left and the Right?

    Questions for all the Democrats and the Republicans on here:

    1) Are you happy with the direction YOUR party is heading? Yes/No/Why?
    (please only talk about your own party)

    2) Would you vote for a member of the other party if you agreed with that persons views?

    3) Do you think that conditions might be right for a major third party movement?

    Please, if at all possible, keep this from turning into a: My party sucks, but your party has herpes, mudfest.

    My answers:

    1) No, I am not. (Rep) I don't like that there is a lack of accountability from our reps in congress to the people that voted for them. I don't like that there is a lack of accountability from the executive branch to the legislative and judicial branches. I do believe that they are to be held accountable to one another. Checks and Balances. The people that we elected to Washington, DC have forgotten what they promised to us, and are more worried about scratching each others back, then taking care of us. I believe it is a little better at the State level, maybe because they are actually close enough to their electorate to remember where they came from.

    2) Yes, have before, and will again.

    3) Absolutely. They Republican controlled White House and the Democratic controlled Congress both have approval ratings that are crap. I think the Country is really fed-up with our political process. I believe that most people have a political view that lies somewhere between the absolute left/right war that the parties play against each other. During the last 8 years I felt like I often had to vote based on a feeling of "Who do I dislike less, instead of who do I like more". If there are more parties then they will have to fight harder to win our votes. If supply/demand works to bring me a higher quality consumer product, it will work in bringing me a higher quality politician. Right now I believe that the mindset of many politicians is this: "I might be a scumbag, but I know that my people will never vote for a Rep/Dem, no matter how good they are." More people vote for American Idol/You think you can dance/etc than vote in politics period. If there are more people, there will be some compromise in Washington, instead of people voting against bills, just because the other party came up with it first.

    My 0.02 cents.


  2. #2
    Forum Member SapphyreBlues's Avatar
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    1.) I'm a republican and I don't like how things are going in the White House. I understand this is war time, and certain info can't be handed out to the public, but they do need to be more accountable. As for the direction, as a whole, I like the way it is going.

    2.) I certainly would. I may be a republican but if a democrat could do a better job, then that person has my vote. I vote for who's best for the people.

    3.) Conditions couldn't be better for a 3rd party. While I like the way the reps are going, truthfully, all politicians (both sides) have lost touch with the American reality. And the reality is that a lot of Americans are just making ends meet. And what they do manage to save up for retirement...well I won't even mention health care.

    If they could get someone who represents the masses, that person would be voted in by a landslide.

  3. #3
    Forum Member Raughammer1's Avatar
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    Smile Republican

    1) Are you happy with the direction YOUR party is heading? Yes/No/Why?

    No and Yes. The Republicans have done a GREAT job with the economy. I cant really picture it doing any better than it is doing right now, i mean we are STRONG. Also the Republicans were able to get two excellent supreme court justices installed and that will pay conservative dividends for decades to come. Taxes: wow, what can i say? They are low and i love it. Lastly they have done a great job with the war on terror. We are as safe as can be expected with the holes a free country will have in its armor.

    Now point blank: they have spent too much and Bush has only rarely used his power of Veto to keep spending in check. Thats just wrong but where the Republicans have let me down the most is on the illegal immigrant issue. They, well the president most of all has turned a deaf ear to our plight. The American people want the problem fixed but all the leftist republican party want to do is ingore those who are suffering in Chicago, the south and California. The problem is BAD and getting worse but the govt. just ignores us and plods ahead. The repubs have lost BIG time support from their more ardent supporters over this issue.

    2) Would you vote for a member of the other party if you agreed with that persons views?
    Sure, but i cannot see a democrat ever being that person. Maybe a libertarian, but not a democrat. The conservative democrats of old are long gone.

    3) Do you think that conditions might be right for a major third party movement? Sure, but i doubt that will happen. It is just too expensive and risky to jump ship from the two big partys.

    This country is hell bent on becoming a country of socialist wimps.

  4. #4
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Well...............

    No. As a Republican, I feel that the G.O.P. is headed toward being only for the Rich and Famous.

    Yes. Absolutely. I have never voted a straight party ticket, the attributes of the individual candidate are far more important to me than party loyalty.

    YES! And where do I sign up?? Lets look at what I want in a Party Platform:

    PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY: You spill hot Coffee, your fault, you knew it was hot, you can't sue. You can be called Sloppy in public though.

    WAR: Someone crawls out of a hole and attacks us, we wipe them off the face of the Earth. Period.

    ECONOMY: Major reform of our entire economic system. Too many people make money by doing nothing constructive.

    GOVERNMENT REGULATION: Strong regulation of several types of industries is long overdue, such as hydrocarbon motor fuels and electricity.

    ENVIRONMENTAL: The Sky is NOT Falling, The Earth is NOT Warming, and a lot of Greenies belong in a mental institution.

    IMMIGRATION: There have been legal requirements to enter this country for a hundred years or more, Enforce those requirements, and deport anyone not complying.

    LANGUAGE: Make English our REQUIRED Language, Require business to end multi-lingual packaging on goods sold in America.

    COFFEE: Make Coffee our national drink.......... I'm off for another Cup, Be back later with more..........
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  5. #5
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    ECONOMY: Major reform of our entire economic system. Too many people make money by doing nothing constructive.
    You may want to rethink that one. That was the primary focus of Karl Marx and his attacks of the owners of capital.

    Marx didn't believe that someone who only owned capital but didn't actively do anything productive should not be allowed to profit off the effort (aka labor) of others.
    Last edited by scfire86; 07-24-2007 at 10:24 AM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  6. #6
    Forum Member kprsn1's Avatar
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    1) No, I'm neither Dem or Rep but I see both parties continuing to move farther and farther to the left and to the right leaving no middle ground to resolve issues.

    2) Absolutely, I've never voted a straight ticket in my life.

    3) Yes, and here it is: The Common Sense Party.
    The Common Sense Party was formed because a bunch of us are completely sick of normal politics and feel that no one represents us, the Internet-literate, vaguely libertarian-minded (yet more practical) people with common sense and not just prejudices. We're socially liberal, but we work hard for our paychecks and would like to keep them, too.

    Democrats want to raise your taxes and then use it to regulate the size of toilets, establish the death penalty for smoking tobacco (redundant), ban people from saying unpopular things about other ethnic groups, and give our good parking spaces to Wood Owls.

    Republicans want to ban anything that's even remotely fun, refuse to apply the lessons that Prohibition taught us about banning drugs, and teach kids about "creationism." Plus, they're just sort of scary.

    Both groups deserve to be beaten senseless with a large stick. Isn't there any room left in politics for people with a bit of common sense?

    Here's the platform so far:
     Government should leave us alone.
     F*%@ people with no sense of humor.
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  7. #7
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    I don't like that there is a lack of accountability from our reps in congress to the people that voted for them.
    Right here you totally lose me. Thanks to the First Amendment we here about most of the screw ups in congress, and we can see what is going on for ourselves if we want to take the time and look at the almost totally open records of what goes on up on Capitol Hill. Every representative is than held accountable every two years, and every senator is held accountable every six years. The people that send them there can hold them TOTALLY accountable for the job they do or don't, if they chose to do so!
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  8. #8
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, ands a third party is not likely to ever happen in this country again. To begin with, Third Party and "Independent" candidates do not take the time to build up from the grassroots, they try for the big prize and don't take the time to build a supportive base in local government and the legislature. Next, the major parties are not stupid, anytime one of those groups has even mild success, the party that is closest to that side of the political spectrum will adopt their ideas as their own. The only way for a new party to join the top would be for a serious and far reaching scandle to take hold and distory one of the current parties.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  9. #9
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    1) Are you happy with the direction YOUR party is heading? Yes/No/Why?

    No and Yes. The Republicans have done a GREAT job with the economy. I cant really picture it doing any better than it is doing right now, i mean we are STRONG. Also the Republicans were able to get two excellent supreme court justices installed and that will pay conservative dividends for decades to come. Taxes: wow, what can i say? They are low and i love it. Lastly they have done a great job with the war on terror. We are as safe as can be expected with the holes a free country will have in its armor.

    Now point blank: they have spent too much and Bush has only rarely used his power of Veto to keep spending in check. Thats just wrong but where the Republicans have let me down the most is on the illegal immigrant issue. They, well the president most of all has turned a deaf ear to our plight. The American people want the problem fixed but all the leftist republican party want to do is ingore those who are suffering in Chicago, the south and California. The problem is BAD and getting worse but the govt. just ignores us and plods ahead. The repubs have lost BIG time support from their more ardent supporters over this issue.
    This post is typical of what is wrong with the conservative mindset. Everything is going great. Taxes are low, the economy is doing well. But spending is out of control. Why do you believe the economy is doing well? Because the fiscal policies of our conservative president has been to borrow trillions of dollars so you can live well and push the price tag off to someone else. The immediate tax rate may be low, but as Milton Friedman once said the true amount of taxation is the amount of the federal budget. It is either big taxes now or bigger taxes later. And this president has given us unprecedented bigger taxes later.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace View Post
    Right here you totally lose me. Thanks to the First Amendment we here about most of the screw ups in congress, and we can see what is going on for ourselves if we want to take the time and look at the almost totally open records of what goes on up on Capitol Hill. Every representative is than held accountable every two years, and every senator is held accountable every six years. The people that send them there can hold them TOTALLY accountable for the job they do or don't, if they chose to do so!
    Maybe to me the lack of accountability is a combination of my experiences. I find that many politicians promise lots of things to stand apart from their counterparts when it comes to pick your candidate for your party (primary is a good example right now). You base your pick on what they say makes them a new and improved democrat/republican. You vote for them, and then they go to DC. And I usually see then that they revert back to doing what is best for the party, and not for the people. For me the lack of accountability comes into effect because they feel that as an incumbent they no longer have to focus on making sure the people from their party like them. They no longer have to prove to us why they are the better Rep/Dem. They know that even if they stabbed us in the back, the majority of their party will still vote for them again, because a bastard son-of-a-bitch Republican is still better than an honest Democrat (or vice versa). This is the reason for my three questions. I think the days of the Yellow-Dog Democrats and Republicans are going away. When the politicians realize that we are no longer above voting for a member of the opposite party or for a member of a minority party, then they might feel that they have to be more accountable towards their electorate.

    A couple of more questions/observations: There always seems to be a larger turnout in municipal/state elections, than federal elections. Do we not care about the federal level? Is Washington, DC to far away from our house to seem Important to our everyday live (A course of being a huge country maybe?). Or have they gone so crazy out there that we have a hard time recognizing that they are supposed to be a part of our life.

    Are we afraid as a country to let our displeasure know and hold people accountable. France might look crazy to us when they have a huge riot every other week (maybe not quite that often), but their government is afraid of their people and they will work on keeping them happy. We have not had bona-fide riots (peaceful or not peaceful) in this country for quite a while. Have me as a country become too afraid of the government and don't want the feds to have a reason to keep a file on us?

    PS: I am really happy so far to see this thread stay on course. I was afraid that it was gonna be a Dem/Rep Hatefest by post #5.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    This post is typical of what is wrong with the conservative mindset. Everything is going great. Taxes are low, the economy is doing well. But spending is out of control. Why do you believe the economy is doing well? Because the fiscal policies of our conservative president has been to borrow trillions of dollars so you can live well and push the price tag off to someone else. The immediate tax rate may be low, but as Milton Friedman once said the true amount of taxation is the amount of the federal budget. It is either big taxes now or bigger taxes later. And this president has given us unprecedented bigger taxes later.
    Please, Please, Please.......

    To Everyone: Try to keep this on YOUR thought about YOUR own party. We have enough threads about why your party is better than my party (both dem and rep). The goal of this thread is to focus on YOUR thoughts about your OWN party, not to try to change everyone else's mind. Tell us about your believes, instead of attacking mine or others.

    scfire86: I would honestly love to hear your answers to the three questions I originally posted. You have let us know why you don't agree with the other posters, and that is fine. But please tell me about your thoughts about the party you identify or are registered with. This is not meant in any way as an attack on you, your party, or your believes.
    Last edited by MarcusKspn; 07-24-2007 at 01:41 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace View Post
    Oh yeah, ands a third party is not likely to ever happen in this country again. To begin with, Third Party and "Independent" candidates do not take the time to build up from the grassroots, they try for the big prize and don't take the time to build a supportive base in local government and the legislature. Next, the major parties are not stupid, anytime one of those groups has even mild success, the party that is closest to that side of the political spectrum will adopt their ideas as their own. The only way for a new party to join the top would be for a serious and far reaching scandle to take hold and distory one of the current parties.
    Do you think it will really have to be a serious and far reaching scandal, or can slower change happen? If we believe that the Big Two are so far out of touch with everyday Americans, can a third party emerge? (Sort of a "None of the Above" movement)

    And I do agree with the fact that big parties absorb little parties, and to me that defeats the purpose of having third parties. This will be an obstacle we will have to overcome. If we have more smaller parties, then there will have to be an mindset of "If we want to have a majority to pass a bill, we will have to compromise with the members of the other parties." It seems we spend over half of our Congress passing bills to null-and-void bills that the other guys passes last session.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber JohnVBFD's Avatar
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    We used to be a government that was for the people. Over time and the erroding away of personal responsibility, we have become a government that needs to control and regulate anrything.

    No matter what party controls the government, no matter what party holds any seat, it will all be about the samething. What can I the politician do to make as much money right now as possible? How little can I do right now that will enable me to write a book of how great I am/was later?

    Power corrupts. Thre are a few good politicans left out there. But for a politican of ANY party to stand before the People of the United States and say that it is "HIS government to do with as he pleases" is a disgrace and slap in the face of the People.

    Until Americans wake up and read their Consitution and learn what the Federal government can, is supposed to, and not supposed to do will there be hope for ANY party and for reform and regulation.

    How many Americans really remember that 10th Amendment. If it is not in this document, that power/right is reserved for the states.
    Last edited by DocVBFDE14; 07-24-2007 at 01:45 PM.
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  14. #14
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    If you don't like the way things are going, then get involved with your local party and change things. If that does nto work, run yourself. There is total accountability every two years for Reps, Four for the WH, and six for Senators, it is really that simple. THe process still works in this country, now go and change the substance.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  15. #15
    Forum Member SapphyreBlues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    No. As a Republican, I feel that the G.O.P. is headed toward being only for the Rich and Famous.

    Yes. Absolutely. I have never voted a straight party ticket, the attributes of the individual candidate are far more important to me than party loyalty.

    YES! And where do I sign up?? Lets look at what I want in a Party Platform:

    PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY: You spill hot Coffee, your fault, you knew it was hot, you can't sue. You can be called Sloppy in public though.

    WAR: Someone crawls out of a hole and attacks us, we wipe them off the face of the Earth. Period.

    ECONOMY: Major reform of our entire economic system. Too many people make money by doing nothing constructive.

    GOVERNMENT REGULATION: Strong regulation of several types of industries is long overdue, such as hydrocarbon motor fuels and electricity.

    ENVIRONMENTAL: The Sky is NOT Falling, The Earth is NOT Warming, and a lot of Greenies belong in a mental institution.

    IMMIGRATION: There have been legal requirements to enter this country for a hundred years or more, Enforce those requirements, and deport anyone not complying.

    LANGUAGE: Make English our REQUIRED Language, Require business to end multi-lingual packaging on goods sold in America.

    COFFEE: Make Coffee our national drink.......... I'm off for another Cup, Be back later with more..........
    Hey! You look like an American citizen of at least 35 years of age. Maybe we should just use you as a write-in on the '08 ballot

    And don't scoff at that idea because write-in's can win an election. I know that Ben Dover (you know who I'm talking about ) won our senior year class presidency by being wrote in As you might have guessed, the staff/teachers were NOT amused.

  16. #16
    Forum Member Raughammer1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    This post is typical of what is wrong with the conservative mindset. Everything is going great. Taxes are low, the economy is doing well. But spending is out of control. Why do you believe the economy is doing well? Because the fiscal policies of our conservative president has been to borrow trillions of dollars so you can live well and push the price tag off to someone else. The immediate tax rate may be low, but as Milton Friedman once said the true amount of taxation is the amount of the federal budget. It is either big taxes now or bigger taxes later. And this president has given us unprecedented bigger taxes later.
    LOL, what a huge load of male cow manure. This kind of thinking, the tax the people into prosperity mantra cracks me up. Right now America is reaping unprecedented levels of taxable income. It has been called a tsunami of money that is pouring into the federal coffers, and all this with VERY low tax rates (low, historically speaking).

    The idea is to lower taxes and let industry, the free market system go. And it is working GREAT. I just wish the ignorant out there would go check thier facts before posting how bad things are.

    The economy is doing great, revenues are up, the economy is growing nicely and unemployment is scary low.

    Life is good in America right now.

  17. #17
    Forum Member Raughammer1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Please, Please, Please.......

    To Everyone: Try to keep this on YOUR thought about YOUR own party. We have enough threads about why your party is better than my party (both dem and rep). The goal of this thread is to focus on YOUR thoughts about your OWN party, not to try to change everyone else's mind. Tell us about your believes, instead of attacking mine or others.

    scfire86: I would honestly love to hear your answers to the three questions I originally posted. You have let us know why you don't agree with the other posters, and that is fine. But please tell me about your thoughts about the party you identify or are registered with. This is not meant in any way as an attack on you, your party, or your believes.
    Your right, i fired back with out scrolling down,...sorry when i get shot at i tend to shoot back.

    My apologies...

  18. #18
    Forum Member Raughammer1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocVBFDE14 View Post
    We used to be a government that was for the people. Over time and the erroding away of personal responsibility, we have become a government that needs to control and regulate anrything.
    Sorry man, that might have been true about 1790 or so, but it has not been about the people for a VERY long time. Surely not since Lincoln trampled all over the Constitution.

    No matter what party controls the government, no matter what party holds any seat, it will all be about the samething. What can I the politician do to make as much money right now as possible? How little can I do right now that will enable me to write a book of how great I am/was later?
    You think so? You think that every person who runs for office in this country is a crook? Every single one?

    Wow...

    Until Americans wake up and read their Consitution and learn what the Federal government can, is supposed to, and not supposed to do will there be hope for ANY party and for reform and regulation.
    Amigo, folks are so distracted by other things and so caught up in their own little world, i doubt seriously that there will be a rising up and or any major change in the political landscape in America any time soon.


    How many Americans really remember that 10th Amendment. If it is not in this document, that power/right is reserved for the states.
    Sir the 10th amendment died in the 1860's...

  19. #19
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    LOL, what a huge load of male cow manure. This kind of thinking, the tax the people into prosperity mantra cracks me up. Right now America is reaping unprecedented levels of taxable income. It has been called a tsunami of money that is pouring into the federal coffers, and all this with VERY low tax rates (low, historically speaking).
    I agree. There has been a tsunami of revenue into the federal coffers. For some reason, this group of fiscal conservatives had no problem spending that cash and continuing to flatten out the federal credit card to run up the national debt at an unprecedented rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    The idea is to lower taxes and let industry, the free market system go. And it is working GREAT. I just wish the ignorant out there would go check thier facts before posting how bad things are.
    Yes. I read Atlas Shrugged when I was in JC classes. It is a great work of fiction. If you truly believe the free market exists without interference from those you support you are living in as big a dream world as Ayn Rand. Business is constantly getting or asking government to interfere in the marketplace to give it a competitive advantage in any number of forms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raughammer1 View Post
    The economy is doing great, revenues are up, the economy is growing nicely and unemployment is scary low.

    Life is good in America right now.
    All of what you claim is easy to do when you're borrowing trillions of dollars and letting someone else pay the bill. Growing the economy with a balanced budget takes an ability to govern that this administration has never been able to fathom.
    Last edited by scfire86; 02-02-2009 at 05:23 PM.
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  20. #20
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    The idea is to lower taxes and let industry, the free market system go.
    Oh, it's going alright...to other countries. It's time to end the free ride for big corporations.

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