Thread: Pierce Saber

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    Default Pierce Saber

    I heard from a reliable source that the Saber chassis which was discontinued from the lineup due to the emissions regulations, has been re-introduced. So, now you can have an Appleton built Saber/Pierce or a Appleton/Bradenton Custom Contender built apparatus if you so desire.

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    Default I believe that is right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Engine305 View Post
    I heard from a reliable source that the Saber chassis which was discontinued from the lineup due to the emissions regulations, has been re-introduced. So, now you can have an Appleton built Saber/Pierce or a Appleton/Bradenton Custom Contender built apparatus if you so desire.
    We have Saber's from 1994 to 2003. These rigs have Detroit and Cummins powerplants.

    I think the truck will be re-labeled the Custom Contender, but retain a lot of its current looks.

    I don't know for sure where they will be built.

    I did hear from a dealer that Pierce will eventually overhaul and reduce its cab lineup to basically offer the Impel/Velocity, Arrow XT, Quantum, and Custom Contender. Time will tell.

    If you look at the current Saber, Enforcer, and Contender; there aren't radical differences between them.

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    Post To : Engine305

    Quote Originally Posted by Engine305 View Post
    I heard from a reliable source that the Saber chassis which was discontinued from the lineup due to the emissions regulations, has been re-introduced. So, now you can have an Appleton built Saber/Pierce or a Appleton/Bradenton Custom Contender built apparatus if you so desire.
    Did your new pumper go out for bid yet, if not are you set on a custom contender or looking at other builders like the Seagrave Intruder ?
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    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 07-27-2007 at 09:57 AM.

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    Default Pumper

    Yes we are open, Seagrave and American Lafrance Pioneer and Ahrens Fox are in the running

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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Engine305 View Post
    Yes we are open, Seagrave and American Lafrance Pioneer and Ahrens Fox are in the running
    What is a American Lafrance Pioneer, I have never heard of it before ? Also Campbell Supply has a very good service department that works on all makes & model fire apparatus. They found a problem with our Mack Cf Baker 75' Scope when no one else could figure out and find the control switch problem !...
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 07-27-2007 at 10:55 AM.

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    Default Pioneer

    A Pioneer is a 4 door cab, budget model, based upon the Condor frame with an apparatus cab instead of commercial. I should have a drawing next week .....
    It is supposed to compare with the Contender, intruder etc................

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    Default A recycled name from the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Engine305 View Post
    A Pioneer is a 4 door cab, budget model, based upon the Condor frame with an apparatus cab instead of commercial. I should have a drawing next week .....
    It is supposed to compare with the Contender, intruder etc................
    Hey old timers. Didn't I remember from my fire apparatus history lesson that there was an ALF Pioneer cab back in like the 1960's or ealy 1970's? It had reverse sloping one piece windshield with three wipers.

    One piece windshield? Three wipers? Maybe it was a little ahead of its time?

    If you'll excuse me, it's time for my Geritol and a nap....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Engine305 View Post
    A Pioneer is a 4 door cab, budget model, based upon the Condor frame with an apparatus cab instead of commercial. I should have a drawing next week .....
    It is supposed to compare with the Contender, intruder etc................
    It sounds like the new ALF " Liberty Series " apparatus !...
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 10-24-2007 at 07:02 PM.

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    Default Pierce Saber

    Looking for some clarity on the chassis used for the Saber. Our dealer told me back in 99 when we took delivery of our Saber that the chassis was actually made by International. I find this hard to believe that Pierce would use another manufacturers chassis but stranger things have happened.

    I also learned that the Detroit Series 40 is actually an International engine. I once again did not believe this until I looked closer at the engine placards.

    Needless to say, its been the worst engine we've had. Nothing but problems from day 1.
    Jim Shultz
    Oshtemo Fire Dept
    Fleet Maintenance Specialist

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    Default 94 Saber

    Quote Originally Posted by osh599 View Post
    Looking for some clarity on the chassis used for the Saber. Our dealer told me back in 99 when we took delivery of our Saber that the chassis was actually made by International. I find this hard to believe that Pierce would use another manufacturers chassis but stranger things have happened.

    I also learned that the Detroit Series 40 is actually an International engine. I once again did not believe this until I looked closer at the engine placards.

    Needless to say, its been the worst engine we've had. Nothing but problems from day 1.
    Our first Saber was purchased in 1994 and has the Detroit Series 40. If you look on the motor, there are Detroit, International, and Perkins labels on it. The engine is basically a International DT466, and as we learned, engine parts are not available from Detroit. You have to buy parts from International.

    My dept. purchased the trucks because they were cheap, and you get what you pay for. I always considered them a Freightliner FL80 except with a Pierce cab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post
    Our first Saber was purchased in 1994 and has the Detroit Series 40. If you look on the motor, there are Detroit, International, and Perkins labels on it. The engine is basically a International DT466, and as we learned, engine parts are not available from Detroit. You have to buy parts from International.

    My dept. purchased the trucks because they were cheap, and you get what you pay for. I always considered them a Freightliner FL80 except with a Pierce cab.
    We puchased a 1994 pierce Saber also and I have to admit its probably the best luck we have had with a vehicle. Your right the Detroit series 40 was produced by by International. So far we have had no problems on getting it worked on by Detroit Mechanics where they get the parts from I dont know. The frame rails are also outsourced or where at that time to international I believe that has changed on the newer sabers. The Chassis is made by pierce and used as contender brands also. For the record we had an FL80 and there is a big difference between that and a Saber the FL80 was traded after only 2 years the Saber is still a frontline piece and is on the road at least 2 to 3 times per day. You couldnt give me another Freightliner product I would definatly purchase another Saber. You can get cummins and cat engines in them now also.
    Last edited by firetdriver99; 08-05-2007 at 03:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by osh599 View Post
    Looking for some clarity on the chassis used for the Saber. Our dealer told me back in 99 when we took delivery of our Saber that the chassis was actually made by International. I find this hard to believe that Pierce would use another manufacturers chassis but stranger things have happened.
    No, the Saber (like every other Pierce product) is built frame-up in Appleton, WI. Been to the Pierce factory multiple times, and have seen it myself.

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    Default I think I forgot to mention

    Did I mention the fuel tank fell out of the truck also? That was a good one to explain while we waited for 15 additional minutes for a set of jaws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post
    Hey old timers. Didn't I remember from my fire apparatus history lesson that there was an ALF Pioneer cab back in like the 1960's or ealy 1970's? It had reverse sloping one piece windshield with three wipers.

    One piece windshield? Three wipers? Maybe it was a little ahead of its time?

    If you'll excuse me, it's time for my Geritol and a nap....
    Well here is the Pioneer Cab 1975

    Forrest Gregg
    Chief
    Holtville/Slapout
    Fire & Rescue Inc.
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    IAFC
    www.holtvilleslapoutfd.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by HSFDChief600 View Post
    Well here is the Pioneer Cab 1975

    Anyone have a picture or drawing of the 2007 model Pioneer from ALF ?

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    Default 2007 Pioneer

    Its drawn in the product line brochure

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    Quote Originally Posted by Engine305 View Post
    Its drawn in the product line brochure
    Can it be found on the American Lafrance web site ? I think this maybe it !....
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    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 08-06-2007 at 12:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseyFFII View Post
    Can it be found on the American Lafrance web site ? I think this maybe it !....
    Sort of has that Euro look.

    Is this supposed to be a less expensive cab model than the Eagle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseyFFII View Post
    Can it be found on the American Lafrance web site ? I think this maybe it !....
    That's a Condor. Look closely and the back of the cab is a compartment. This is a vocational (garbage truck) chassis much like the Mack MR.

    Perhaps the four door version that ALF showed at Indy this year of this rig will be named the Pioneer?

    http://www.condortrucks.com/condor.asp?n=1&p=0&s=1

    http://www.condortrucks.com/condor.asp?n=7&p=0&s=7&x=19

    This link stolen from another FH Forums thread:

    http://www.bensware.com/firetrucks/F.../DSC_8713.html
    Last edited by npfd801; 08-07-2007 at 12:08 AM.
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    Default Pioneer

    Thats the cab, my drawing has an Eagle grill and headlights on her.
    Looks like a nice rig
    4 doors 425 Cummins

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    I think that this chassis has great opportunities as a foundation for Fed grant trucks. All depends on the $$$.

    SMT

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    Default Saber problems

    You may want to go and read this thread:

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=92696

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    Here is a photo of the Pioneer I got at IAFC Saturday

    Forrest Gregg
    Chief
    Holtville/Slapout
    Fire & Rescue Inc.
    District 10 Director
    AAVFD
    IAFC
    www.holtvilleslapoutfd.org

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    Thumbs down Pierce Saber

    I was an avid Pierce fan until my department purchased a 2003 Pierce Saber with a Cummins 330 in it and have literially NOTHING BUT PROBLEMS with it. This truck only has 12,000 miles on it and it has been to the service department and had numerous service calls ordered on it atleast 3 times a year. The major problems consist of all engine and throttle malfunctions, reoccurring time and time again. The throttle continuously malfunctions, while driving you will either lose the throttle all together or it will stick wide open. Pierce has had it is the shop NUMEROUS times and said there is nothing wrong with the throttle. We've also had many times when the truck will not start, continuously cranking but will not turn over. The service technician told us it was "Operator error" and that did not know what we were doing trying to start the truck. Throughout this whole time we've also had a collant leak, and Pierce kept telling us that A) We over filled the tank or B) There was a collant line leaking.

    Well what do you know, its 2007 and the throttle is still malfunctioning, jepordizing the safety of firefighters.

    And if you can imagine this, our Motor warranty just expired 2 weeks ago and now they said the collant leak is due to a Blown Head Gasket! Cummins said they will not cover it and Pierce pretty much told us to F off.

    I can guarentee you one thing we wil NEVER, EVER purchase a Pierce again.

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Engine305 View Post
    A Pioneer is a 4 door cab, budget model, based upon the Condor frame with an apparatus cab instead of commercial. I should have a drawing next week .....
    It is supposed to compare with the Contender, intruder etc................
    To: Engine305 I was at the N.J. State Fire Show on friday 9/14/07 we spent all day looking at apparatus. I came across the new ALF Pioneer chassis cab on display, it looks like a great lower cost custom chassis. There were many fire departments talking to the " Campbell Supply " sales people about the new rig. Many departments will skip past a commercial cab and go for the ALF !.....

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