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    I don't know how it is where you're at but around here that's about par for the course. The average person unless they have been directly impacted by fire pretty much ignore fire alarms. Their thought process is that the FD will show up and take care of it. Remember malfunctioning fire alarms or fire alarms that sound off numerous times for nuisance reasons give people a "crying wolf" mentality, even if it was real they still believe it's false.

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    When did this happen? Today???

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdd2121 View Post
    no one budged at all. kept reporting the "news" (ie. making jokes that co workers were smoking in the bathrooms) even after they came on the over head and said there was report of smoke on THEIR floor, which i believe was C1 (subway level)

    it wasnt important to him because their "fire alarms go off all the time and the 'fire warden' just comes on the overhead and says its a false"

    he even goes on to say after it was said on the overhead that there was a report of smoke that "if there is a fire here just come here and we will have a mass funeral because no one ever leaves"

    there was a bunch of comments but about all i can remember. i hope this finds its way to you tube.

    fox should be ashamed of themselves. at least cut to commercial for God's sake.
    I gotta tell you. I work on a trading desk in lower Manhattan. There have been times over the years when I stayed at my desk trying to get a trade done while the alarms were on. I wouldn’t joke about it but I have done it.
    Even worse I work on the 30th floor.
    Fortune does not change men; it unmasks them.

    The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter!! Either side of the hill.


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    Two points of interest...

    1. When there is a fire and smoke...these type of people don't hesitate to scatter like roaches when the lights are turned on. A few months ago WABC (NYC ABC Channel 7) newsdesk set caught fire just minutes before the 11 o'clock news...they were off the air for hours and they had to use makeshift desk for the next month or so. (This is the same building where they shoot Live with Regis and Kelly)

    There was a fire...these people knew it and I'm sure the FSD told them to get out as Set fires are just like any theater fire and can be bad news...the reason they were off the air was that all the staff left including those running the boards....not just the on-air talent.

    2. This building alarm assuming there was no second source for smoke or fire...was a Class E alarm.

    Without getting too complicated, it is an alarm at a commercial highrise in Midtown that gets either a single Engine or single Ladder response with a chief. This is the only type of alarm we do this on as there are a number of precautions taken on site that ensure that this is an appropriate response. On site Fire Safety Directors and staff(Floor fire wardens) along with thorough alarm systems and monitoring devices.

    Basicly we still treat it as an Emergency(abit a lesser one than a structural 3 and 2 response) but unless the building FSD or maintenance men tell them to evacuate most stay right were they are and continue working. It is a fairly calm event.

    Call it what you will but that building is probably well over 50 stories and it would be a major undertaking to evacuate every floor for an alarm that was most likely triggered by accident. Happens probably 100 times a day in Manhattan Monday to Friday year round...and regardless of what we think it isn't going to change.

    FTM-PTB

    PS- Rough rider how were things in the office this week with the rollercoaster in the market?
    Last edited by FFFRED; 07-26-2007 at 05:56 PM.

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    PS- Rough rider how were things in the office this week with the rollercoaster in the market?
    Hey there FFFRED. The market has been spooked by all the "Sub Prime Loan" talk for a few weeks. Yesterday the market reacted to closely watched economic releases like Jobless Claims and New Home Sales. Today we will watch and react to the GDP release. The Street can easily handle the volume and point swings that you have been reading about. It’s really not a big issue anymore. I'll add that because of the trading curbs (may have muted yesterday’s negative sentiment) that are in place we may see another rocky road today.
    Fortune does not change men; it unmasks them.

    The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter!! Either side of the hill.


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    I don't exactly know how things work over there, but if a building fire alarm was to activate, with smoke present on the alarm floor.. - That would definately result in at least evacuation of that floor, one below and two above..

    Where there is smoke, there is 'usually'... ---- .. (10 points for the winner)

    -Now I understand the hundreds of false alarms would make people a little complacent, but I find it hard to understand a news readers ignorance to a situation when it is reported clearly that smoke is present and the fire alarm is going.. - Wouldn't be hard to put 2 and 2 together!
    Last edited by FF49STN; 07-27-2007 at 11:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRider View Post
    Hey there FFFRED. The market has been spooked by all the "Sub Prime Loan" talk for a few weeks. Yesterday the market reacted to closely watched economic releases like Jobless Claims and New Home Sales. Today we will watch and react to the GDP release. The Street can easily handle the volume and point swings that you have been reading about. It’s really not a big issue anymore. I'll add that because of the trading curbs (may have muted yesterday’s negative sentiment) that are in place we may see another rocky road today.
    I'm of the belief this is a much needed correction.... I'm an investor not a trader so I'm still long in the two positions I have in the market.

    FTM-PTB

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    Default Ionization so-called 'smoke alarms' a real cause for alarm

    Somebody is mocking an alarm that goes off all the time? Somebody is worried about the boy who cried 'wolf'? Thank God, folks. There's hope for us all, after all.
    Here are the facts carefully hidden for thirty years , despite the International Association of Fire Chiefs best efforts in 1980.
    Ionization-type so-called smoke alarms, the type supposedly protecting millions of homes in the Us and overseas, DO NOT DETECT SMOKE, NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL.
    DO THEY GO OFF WHEN YOU'RE MAKING TOAST? (AND I WROTE 'MAKING' NOT 'BURNING')? CHECK!
    DO THEY SOMETIMES GO OFF WHEN YOU'VE GOT THE BBQ GOING OUTSIDE?
    SURE DO!
    DO THEY GET THEIR BATTERIES TAKEN OUT BY NEARLY 40% OF ALL FRUSTRATED USERS. YOU BET THEY DO!
    But do they detect visible smoke, the stuff that actually takes far more lives than a flaming fire. Never. They detect sub-micron sized 'particles of combustion' you can't see and which travel very fast and will be (usually but not always) detected by an ionization field in your plutonium by-product, Americium 241-run (actually designed as a gas - )alarm.
    Great for kitchen fires and other quick spreading fires which most folk escape from because they tend to happen during the day.
    Just don't have a smoldering fire, the type that can begin from an electircal fault, a cigarette butt. The type that kills you mercifully in your sleep because your sleeping nose can't smell anything. A girl, name of Jasmine Daniels died a few weeks ago in a smoke filled room where there was just a small fire in the corner of her bedroom when a neighbour ran up the stairs to try to save her. He couldn't. The rest of the family had been alerted by the smell of smoke in the early morning, couldn't reach Jaz for the smoke and left the house under the wicked little eye of the ionization so-called smoke alarm RIGHT OUTSIDE JASMINE'S OPEN BEDROOM DOOR.
    This time even the Fire Department admitted the alarms had failed (two, one on each floor as scandalously inadequately mandated in New South Wales, whose Fire Commissioner, with our help, was the first in the World to publicly acknowledge that Ionization devices cannot detect visible smoke. See our websites. Start at www.theAquariumTest.com.
    Follow the news from Indiana where Fire Marshall Johnson is following in the recent footsteps of the Vermont Fire Department who saw our Aquarium test and recognised the astonishing truth none of us has found it easy to believe.
    Contact me for more info and when the time comes to kick Ionization Alarms out, don't let the unprincipled Manufacturers foist on the public, a hybrid Ionization Toast Detector plus REAL SMOKE ALARM (saving too few lives for fifty years )- the RELIABLE PHOTO ELECTRIC Alarm.
    The answer wil be found to be
    interconnected photoelectric and CO alarms
    in all bedrooms and paths of egress
    - then we'll stop the children burning!
    Call us. Rev Kerrin for the World Fire Safety Foundation, by far the most informed body of Home Fire Safety experts in the World.
    Join us.

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    This is about on par with parents telling their kids,"Don't be scared,honey.It's just the smoke alarm because Daddy doesn't know how to check the oven before supper burns."
    I don't know about you but when I go back to being a volunteer firefighter,I WANT kids to be scared when the smoke alarm goes off as in"Scared enough to want to get out of the house just in case it isn't really supper being ready."
    Way back in the dawn of time,when I was about 8 or 9,WMC TV 5 had a fire in their studio which forced them to do at least one broadcast from the car dealership that was across the street at the time.
    That's the point.I don't know if there was a smoke alarm in use at the time,but someone noticed smoke or a fire,and people left the building.Don't just sit there and go for a posthumous daytime Emmy for news broadcasting while the studio burns down around you.

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    Here it is:

    http://www.foxnews.com/studiob/index.html

    FTM-PTB

    I didn't see where there was a report of smoke in the studio? He is right...it is very common and the Fire Safety director comes on over the PA with an announcement. They have assigned floor wardens who take charge in case of a fire.

    I can't see that it is practical for everyone in a 50+ story office building to make a stampeed for the exits every time the alarm sounds. Speaking to a few people who work in tall buildings since 9-11 at the first sign or indication of an actuall problem...they all scatter like roaches....case in point was this past months Steam explosion...they all ran for the exits without a second thought....100s of pairs of abandoned shoes on the street can provide testement to that.

    If someone was to come on and tell them of a fire in the building they would have left...which actually has become a problem for us because now we can't control which floors need to be evacuated...everyone leaves and clogs the stairs and creates lots of issues for us.

    Class E response...I'm thinking Ladder Co. 2 or Engine Co. 23 would have taken it in...not sure who's area that falls in.
    Last edited by FFFRED; 07-27-2007 at 03:23 PM.

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    Unfortunately, fire alarms and smoke detectors go off all the time and 99.9% of the time, it is nothing. What do you expect people to do? Human nature is to start ignoring things that have no meaning. And when you hear that thing whooping every week over nothing, nobody will care.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Unfortunately, fire alarms and smoke detectors go off all the time and 99.9% of the time, it is nothing. What do you expect people to do? Human nature is to start ignoring things that have no meaning. And when you hear that thing whooping every week over nothing, nobody will care.
    Yeah but we are talking Smoke Alarm + Smoke present here.. Most people would think.. " hmmm.. something isnt too right here " ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdd2121 View Post
    good find BFDNJFF... anyway to save the to disk?


    guess we didnt have to wait for it to make it on youtube. As FFFRED pointed out i guess fox thinks its funny enough to post on their own website.
    Thnx. Thats actually uploaded to a site I help moderate called liveleak. Here is a direct link to it. It will always be there as long as you have the link.


    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=72a_1185540913
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    Default Fire Alarms Sounding Live at Fox Studios

    Let them laugh. But then get them to explain that they were laughing at a device that can detect all sorts of things, most often browning toast, but never visible smoke from a smoldering fire. Check out what's being learned by Fire Marshal Roger Johnson's Indiana Firefighters, Vermont's Fire Dept - thefirst in the US to heed the warning since the International Association of Fire Chiefs spoke out in 1980.
    We had to start at the begining again nearly ten years ago, to find out why ionization-type so-called 'smoke' alarms do not detect smoke, never have and never will. See the World Fire Safety Foundation's ground-breaking site, www,theAquariumTest.com
    Rev. Kerrin E

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    I don't know, I'd say this guys a moron! Sure you follow building procedures but this is another example for people not following established protocol for fire alarm conditions. If they have alarms that get investigated by trained Fire Wardens before evacuation then why let the Fire Alarm System actually alarm? It would be as easy and better form to have the detectors report in a supervisory mode to the constantly attended location for investigation and save Occupant Notification Devices for actual times you want occupants to leave. What do they do if it is a fire? Just the voice overhead? How about the hearing impaired occupants? I'd be suprised if some ADA lawyer doesn't start looking into this.

    I certainly understand that you can't start evacuating highrises everytime a detector trips, but I think there's a better way than to teach people to ignore horn strobes! And we can thank this bonehead anchorman for belittling the Firewarden's whose job it is to ensure his ovepaid butt is outside if there really is a fire. Not to mention all the people watching in TV land who generally won't leave Walmart until lead out by hand! Though I give a little more credit to people who watch FOX vs. CNN!

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    Yeah, FFFRED is absolutely correct.

    Although my dept doesn't deal with 50+ story buildings like the FDNY, even our mid-rises can contain 100's of people. If you expect them to just leave everytime there is an alarm, they will get to a point where they just stop leaving (unless in immediate danger).

    On the other hand... if the fire marshall's office helps occupancies to develop emergency plans and trains people to be in charge, everyone knows that they are supposed to follow the instructions of the "fire warden". When there is a true emergency the warden will do what they are trained to do (they are trained and they do practice), and everyone will listen (rather than sitting around because they think it's another false alarm).
    "...there isn't a firefighter in the free world who is forced to join this profession." -John Norman

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    Quote Originally Posted by swarmy View Post
    Yeah, FFFRED is absolutely correct.

    Although my dept doesn't deal with 50+ story buildings like the FDNY, even our mid-rises can contain 100's of people. If you expect them to just leave everytime there is an alarm, they will get to a point where they just stop leaving (unless in immediate danger).

    On the other hand... if the fire marshall's office helps occupancies to develop emergency plans and trains people to be in charge, everyone knows that they are supposed to follow the instructions of the "fire warden". When there is a true emergency the warden will do what they are trained to do (they are trained and they do practice), and everyone will listen (rather than sitting around because they think it's another false alarm).

    But would you leave if you heard the alarm, then the warden yells out " Guys, there is smoke in here ! " ... ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by FF49STN View Post
    But would you leave if you heard the alarm, then the warden yells out " Guys, there is smoke in here ! " ... ??
    I didn't hear that on the version I watched. If you heard it are you sure it was the warden?

    To be honest... I may or may not leave. Depends on the circumstances.

    I can't count the number of burnt popcorn alarms I've been on in the breakrooms of those places. Would you leave for burnt popcorn just because an alarm sounded?
    "...there isn't a firefighter in the free world who is forced to join this profession." -John Norman

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    I read that smoke was present and it was put over the header I believe... -


    Popcorn causing smoke would be a determined cause, hence the situation is relatively known and corrective means can be taken.. - To my understanding, the situation in question was an unknown cause of smoke? - Fire condition unknown? .. Smoke cause unknown... - To be honest, I would get people to evacuate... - The chances of it being anything, are indeed, minimal.. But I don't want to risk my royal ***** if the place goes up and people are trapped..

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    Quote Originally Posted by FF49STN View Post
    I read that smoke was present and it was put over the header I believe... -


    Popcorn causing smoke would be a determined cause, hence the situation is relatively known and corrective means can be taken.. - To my understanding, the situation in question was an unknown cause of smoke? - Fire condition unknown? .. Smoke cause unknown... - To be honest, I would get people to evacuate... - The chances of it being anything, are indeed, minimal.. But I don't want to risk my royal ***** if the place goes up and people are trapped..
    Turned out to be a false alarm.
    "...there isn't a firefighter in the free world who is forced to join this profession." -John Norman

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    You could get on that thing and say

    ATTENTION EVERYONE! THE BUILDING IS ON FIRE. THATS RIGHT, THIS IS NOT SOME FAKE BS ALARM. FOR ONCE, THE PLACE IS REALLY A RAGING INFERNO AND IF YOU DON'T LEAVE NOW, YOU WILL ALL DIE A HORRIBLE FIREY DEATH.

    And people will still stay. Why? Because whether it is the wooping fire alarm or some wierdo on a PA system, it is all the same and we've all heard it before. This is why fire PROTECTION accomplishes a lot more than fire ALARMS.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swarmy View Post
    Turned out to be a false alarm.
    Yeah.. This time.. - But how long was it before that was determined??


    Anyway, at the end of the day its their complacency that will kill someone, not mine.. If they choose not to evacuate when smoke starts appearing in the studio, well, their problem I guess..

    (I think what really grinds most people is the mocking of the very system that is installed to warm people of early signs of fire and made to save their very lives..)
    Last edited by FF49STN; 07-28-2007 at 01:30 AM.

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    Let it go Bro...

    I'm not defending FOX News for making light of the situation. I do think people need to become more alert when the alarm sounds... so they can understand instructions from the people in charge of handling those emergencies. So I think we agree on something.

    I don;t agree with you that everyone should always evacuate (when there is a emergency plan in place). Neither of us know what the system is for Fx News (although Fred seems to have an idea). I was providing you with soe background about why some people may not evacuate (if not in immediate danger) unless given specific instructions, and you do not agree.

    In my city, we don't have people flooding stairwells for every alarm. We have highly educatated engineers in our fire marshall's office that know way more about building codes, fire codes and fire protection system than either of us. They design emergency plans for occupancies based on such knowledge. It's considered part of the overall fire protection for those occupancies (the fire code even allows for this). It works for us.

    If you want to have your citizens evacuate high-rises for every fire alarm, that's your deal. No big deal... we'll have to agree to disagree.

    Be safe bro!
    "...there isn't a firefighter in the free world who is forced to join this profession." -John Norman

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    lol.. Don't worry im not 'hung up' on it or anything, i'm not their, and im not going to try and change the world just because things are done a little differently over here.

    Maybe I should rephrase it though. - Over here, if their was smoke present, it would result in an evacuation.. - But with the tallest buildings in town only being 30 stories, its alot easier.. hehe

    Likewise, be safe mate..

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