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  1. #1

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    Jul 2007
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    Crested Butte, CO
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    Default Technical Rope Rescue Training needs

    I have a general question about everyone's needs for technical rope rescue training. I have been teaching technical rope rescue in mountain environments for Ski Patrols and Search and Rescue Teams for many years and am a volunteer firefighter/paramedic as well. I am looking for ideas on how to use my mountain expertise to offer training opportunities for fire departments around the country. I would appreciate any helpful advice anyone might have to offer. Is there much of a need for this type of training? Do most departments do it in-house? What sort of grants might be available for departments to access in order to support this type of training. Thank you in advance for any ideas you might have.


  2. #2
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    Apr 2001
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    I have to give you credit for posting.

    Most of the people who frequent this forum are instructors for private firms or run their own biz. I wouldn't expect too much insight posted here. It's not personal after all it's business....I can however provide business consulting for a fee

    Good Luck!

  3. #3
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    Somewhere in the Backcountry...
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    Have you considered working as an instructor for RfR, CMC, var. state Fire Marshall ofc's or one of the other "household name" firms/entities offering technical training?

    The work may not be very consistent but you can let others do the administrative and marketing work. Working for some of these firms will require that you have significant direct experience in the discipline.

    Going it alone can be tough since many people like name recognition associated with the training they receive.

    You may also find that you'll be doing train-the-trainer work where the person who attends your program goes back to his/her home dept. and is the new expert that will provide all the training the dept. needs.

    While I don't have any empirical evidence, I get the feeling that most jurisidictions that have significant mountain rescue needs have skilled and well trained teams that do most of their own training or they have such a limited capability that paying for classes is almost a non-starter. Not to offend anyone, but think serious mountain rescue team vs. classic Sheriff posse.

    Ski areas may be a larger market but are going to look for a curriculum geared towards their needs (avalanche, medical, modest tech. rope (geared towards lift evac)). Outdoor ed programs may be another area of oppty - training course leaders and other staff. Again - curriculum focus is not going to be high end tech rescue but the basic WFR, self-rescue, etc. Check out all the requirements associated with providing any medical training since the rules can be confusing.

    The grant money tends to follow the hot topic of the day but tends to be much more USAR related. Training, equipment, etc. that doesn't fit into certain guidelines will not qualify.

    Best of luck.

  4. #4
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    May 2000
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    Wheaton IL
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    Default

    I'd say your best asset is you creativity setting up a system. The fireservce in general and my area specifically always worries about maintaining a 15:1 safety factor, making sure everything is NFPA "G" Rated and always hooking to bomb proof anchors. As I'm sure you are well aware that just isn't possible or practical in every situation. Your knowledge in anchors and systems needs to be learned in the real world.
    I'd first try the area departments around you. Mtnrsq is under the assumptions that departments in high risk areas are well prepared, from my experience many departments have one or two people who know what they are doing and for the most part much of the department is clueless.
    Look over NFPA 1670 and get educated about the fireservice standard of care and I'm sure you could be a valuble asset.

    Best of luck.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ADSNWFLD View Post
    I'd say your best asset is you creativity setting up a system. The fireservce in general and my area specifically always worries about maintaining a 15:1 safety factor, making sure everything is NFPA "G" Rated and always hooking to bomb proof anchors. As I'm sure you are well aware that just isn't possible or practical in every situation. Your knowledge in anchors and systems needs to be learned in the real world.
    I'd first try the area departments around you. Mtnrsq is under the assumptions that departments in high risk areas are well prepared, from my experience many departments have one or two people who know what they are doing and for the most part much of the department is clueless.
    Look over NFPA 1670 and get educated about the fireservice standard of care and I'm sure you could be a valuble asset.

    Best of luck.
    I was a bit vague in my response. I agree with much of ADSNWLD's comments and your (rescuetrainer) experience with CBSAR and other true mountain SAR teams (particularly MRA qualified) needs to be set aside when dealing with most departments.

    Unlike many mountain SAR specialty teams where you may have a dozen or more skilled technical rescue personnel, most FDs will NOT have depth and experience beyond a small # of individuals.

    Familiarity with NFPA 1670 is vital since it "governs" their approach. Your experience in the real world as it may have been framed working with SAR groups and depts. in CO may not translate well to much of your target audience.

    There is definitely a need out there. Getting the depts. to realize they have the need and getting them to act on it are part of the battle.

  6. #6
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    Default

    OK...I'll drop the smart a** and put two sense in here.

    ADSNWLFD brings up a very interesting point. That is most Urban departments are stuck in Urban rope rescue. I was fortunate enough to get my early rope training through Bruce Smith. He came to our Urban area and showed us more "Wilderness" techniques. To be honest, I realized that we had been over-rigging for many years and had been given some bad 4-1-1 from many of the local "experts".

    Keep this in mind when you approach an Urban class. They may not agree with you at first, but with the experience you seem to have I'm certain you can overcome this!

    On another note. I got my break by working with a well known training firm. It is much easier to get work when you are teaching for someone. Once they realize you are professional, and a good instructor, you can get as much work as you want.

    Good Luck.

  7. #7
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    Jan 2010
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    Default Technical Training

    Traditionally, education has been thought of in terms of a school model. The teacher teaches and the students are expected to learn. Students are graded on a normal curve with some achieving high grades and others failing. The assumption is that the teaching is perfect and the only variable is the student's ability to learn. This model is known as Normative Referenced Instruction. The burden for learning is on the student rather than the instruction.Industry requires that everyone achieve the level of success needed to perform the job. It is not economically feasible or legally advisable to fire every person who does not score well on a norm-referenced test. Rather, the objective is to provide instruction such that everyone can master the subject and the only variable is how long it takes each person to reach mastery. The assumption is that everyone can learn the subject and the burden in on the instructional materials rather than the students. This model of instruction is known as Criterion Referenced Instruction.Today, industry and the military have adopted the Criterion Referenced Model where each person must reach a criterion of mastery but everyone does learn the material. Great emphasis is placed on the instructional material to achieve this result. Poor performance means that the instruction is not adequate. Because it is recognized that each person will take a different amount of time to reach criterion, industry has often adopted various forms of self-paced instruction. The idea is that people will not be constrained by the timing of a classroom or the pace of the slowest person in a group. This is also the reason why Instructional Design methodology is often focused on Criterion Referenced Instruction and self-paced materials.Note that the typical online training is both Criterion Referenced and Self-Paced Instruction. Individual users works at their own pace until they do master the topic. This is considered one of the advantages of online training.In many cases, instruction can make the difference in profitability or it can be a life or death matter as with aircraft training. In the high tech industry, it can mean faster time to learn a new technology, fewer errors when designing or manufacturing, and greater customer satisfaction when applied to service departments.For more details visit our web site EOT Cranes

    Thanks

  8. #8
    Banned
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    Jan 2010
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    5

    Default Technical Training

    Traditionally, education has been thought of in terms of a school model. The teacher teaches and the students are expected to learn. Students are graded on a normal curve with some achieving high grades and others failing. The assumption is that the teaching is perfect and the only variable is the student's ability to learn. This model is known as Normative Referenced Instruction. The burden for learning is on the student rather than the instruction.Industry requires that everyone achieve the level of success needed to perform the job. It is not economically feasible or legally advisable to fire every person who does not score well on a norm-referenced test. Rather, the objective is to provide instruction such that everyone can master the subject and the only variable is how long it takes each person to reach mastery. The assumption is that everyone can learn the subject and the burden in on the instructional materials rather than the students. This model of instruction is known as Criterion Referenced Instruction.Today, industry and the military have adopted the Criterion Referenced Model where each person must reach a criterion of mastery but everyone does learn the material. Great emphasis is placed on the instructional material to achieve this result. Poor performance means that the instruction is not adequate. Because it is recognized that each person will take a different amount of time to reach criterion, industry has often adopted various forms of self-paced instruction. The idea is that people will not be constrained by the timing of a classroom or the pace of the slowest person in a group. This is also the reason why Instructional Design methodology is often focused on Criterion Referenced Instruction and self-paced materials.Note that the typical online training is both Criterion Referenced and Self-Paced Instruction. Individual users works at their own pace until they do master the topic. This is considered one of the advantages of online training.In many cases, instruction can make the difference in profitability or it can be a life or death matter as with aircraft training. In the high tech industry, it can mean faster time to learn a new technology, fewer errors when designing or manufacturing, and greater customer satisfaction when applied to service departments.For more details visit our web site EOT Cranes

    Thanks

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
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    Default Technical Training

    Traditionally, education has been thought of in terms of a school model. The teacher teaches and the students are expected to learn. Students are graded on a normal curve with some achieving high grades and others failing. The assumption is that the teaching is perfect and the only variable is the student's ability to learn. This model is known as Normative Referenced Instruction. The burden for learning is on the student rather than the instruction.Industry requires that everyone achieve the level of success needed to perform the job. It is not economically feasible or legally advisable to fire every person who does not score well on a norm-referenced test. Rather, the objective is to provide instruction such that everyone can master the subject and the only variable is how long it takes each person to reach mastery. The assumption is that everyone can learn the subject and the burden in on the instructional materials rather than the students. This model of instruction is known as Criterion Referenced Instruction.Today, industry and the military have adopted the Criterion Referenced Model where each person must reach a criterion of mastery but everyone does learn the material. Great emphasis is placed on the instructional material to achieve this result. Poor performance means that the instruction is not adequate. Because it is recognized that each person will take a different amount of time to reach criterion, industry has often adopted various forms of self-paced instruction. The idea is that people will not be constrained by the timing of a classroom or the pace of the slowest person in a group. This is also the reason why Instructional Design methodology is often focused on Criterion Referenced Instruction and self-paced materials.Note that the typical online training is both Criterion Referenced and Self-Paced Instruction. Individual users works at their own pace until they do master the topic. This is considered one of the advantages of online training.In many cases, instruction can make the difference in profitability or it can be a life or death matter as with aircraft training. In the high tech industry, it can mean faster time to learn a new technology, fewer errors when designing or manufacturing, and greater customer satisfaction when applied to service departments.For more details visit our web site EOT Cranes

    Thanks

  10. #10
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    Jan 2004
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    Default

    People also learn better when they have a couple of these when they are reading:


    Paragraph:
    A distinct division of written or printed matter that begins on a new, usually indented line, consists of one or more sentences, and typically deals with a single thought or topic or quotes one speaker's continuous words.


  11. #11
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    Default

    Or one big azz drawn out "paragraph" that doesnt really fit topic, posted 3 times.

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