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Thread: stupid question

  1. #1
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    Default stupid question

    OK I have a stupid question. We don't have a 3 story building within 30 miles of us but I was wondering when you guys put your SCBA mask on in a high rise building. We go on air prior to entering a structure but you would be out of air before you got to the fire in a high rise.
    I know it is a stupid question but I am curious.


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    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Well............

    With us, in the stairwell, at the floor below the Fire, works OK. And, It's NOT a stupid question, any time someone may learn something, it's worth asking, answering and discussing. (here on the Forums, discussing and cussing may get mixed up a bit..... )
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    I don't have a lot of experience in high-rise fires either, but depending on smoke conditions in the hallway, I would either mask up in the stair-well or at the door of the involved room.

    I'm sure they guys that do this regularly can give a better answer.

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    We normally let the conditions dictate whether or not it's time to be on air. If you are heading to the 15th floor, you really don't want to be masking up on the first floor if not absolutely necessary. We try and wait until we see a reason to, which sometimes can be at the door of the fire room, or it could be a floor, two, or more below the fire. The point is that we try and conserve air until we really need it.

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    makes good girls go bad BLSboy's Avatar
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    Reading Batt. Chief John Salkas article in FH this month, he hit it right on the head. He wrote about FFs going on air far too soon.
    If you are making entry to the fire room, encounter smoke, or are floor below/above, then yes, I would say go on air. But going on air, when there is no smoke, on air outside the building....
    We had a couple guys, at the last fire, on air, outside, upwind of the structure. Why waste your air?
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
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    MembersZone Subscriber swarmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by callaway75 View Post
    We normally let the conditions dictate whether or not it's time to be on air. If you are heading to the 15th floor, you really don't want to be masking up on the first floor if not absolutely necessary. We try and wait until we see a reason to, which sometimes can be at the door of the fire room, or it could be a floor, two, or more below the fire. The point is that we try and conserve air until we really need it.
    Same here!!!
    "...there isn't a firefighter in the free world who is forced to join this profession." -John Norman

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    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Talking Yep................

    Quote Originally Posted by Eng34FF View Post
    I'm sure they guys that do this regularly can give a better answer.

    I did.




































































































    Needless to say, I'm just messin with ya, Bro. How's things on the Island? I may swing by the TiKi Bar soon...........
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    Needless to say, I'm just messin with ya, Bro. How's things on the Island? I may swing by the TiKi Bar soon...........
    It's all good. Things are good on the Island, be better once they get the lighthouse inn rebuilt. Have a Mai-Tai for me if you make it down here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by callaway75 View Post
    We normally let the conditions dictate whether or not it's time to be on air. .
    Good answer followed up by a little bit of common sense can go a long way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newboot View Post
    OK I have a stupid question. We don't have a 3 story building within 30 miles of us but I was wondering when you guys put your SCBA mask on in a high rise building. We go on air prior to entering a structure but you would be out of air before you got to the fire in a high rise.
    I know it is a stupid question but I am curious.
    Not a stupid question at all.

    Usually it is more or less when you get to the smoke. Many times the Forcible Entry team will wait until they have forced the door...it all depends on the smoke condition.

    Our facepieces are attached to the regulator and when needed...we pop our helmet off...throw the facepiece on, helmet back on...back to work.

    Sometimes the smoke on the fire floor is minimal until the door is forced and we can start work on flaking out the hose below the smoke layer...othertimes the hallway is banked down to the floor.

    Most times the Truck has the door forced before we can do this though.

    Never waste air early for you might need it later. Our procedures stipulate that the control man if at all possible is to conserve his air in the event that one of the members of the nozzle team needs to be relieved.

    FTM-PTB

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    Default follow up question

    OK a follow up question. If one person on the team runs low on air does everyone back out? And do you have to go clear back down to the truck to get a new bottle? Were does the back up crew stage?
    Big city stuff seams complicated to me.

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    2 in and 2 out is the way we do it.

    So if you go in with someone, then if one has an "issue" both come out. never leave a man alone.

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    makes good girls go bad BLSboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newboot View Post
    OK a follow up question. If one person on the team runs low on air does everyone back out? And do you have to go clear back down to the truck to get a new bottle? Were does the back up crew stage?
    Big city stuff seams complicated to me.
    One goes low, we all go low. A team is only as strong as its weakest link. Now, there are exceptions to that rule, but far and few between, like an immediate life hazard being corrected, or fire is close to being under control/ extinguished.

    Staging is usually 2 floors below the fire floor, with attack being initiated from one below.
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    MembersZone Subscriber ffmedcbk1's Avatar
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    I go on air after I put on my second hood in the station...




    sorry couldn't fight the urge to say that.

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    Go on air when you feel the need. It will be different for everybody. Job last night I didnt use my pac but the other guy on the line used 1/2 his bottle. Use it when you feel the need.

    Confirmed hi rise job dictates taking extra equipment up with you, this includes spare bottles. Dont need to go down 50 flights to get another bottle, just a few floors.
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    Exclamation Company 1

    For us at work, they dont mind when we mask up, we dont have to mask up at all if we dont want to. We usually mask up as were entering the room/hallway that was smoke and or fire.
    Erik H. Zifroprick
    West Reading Fire Co #1
    Rescue/Engine 1
    2512

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    Talking

    Go on air? We don't. We looked into them air pack thingeys at one time, but we already had the horse loaded up and couldn't figure out where to store them, so we figured we'd just keep doing it the way we've been doing for years, you know, eating smoke like REAL firemen.


    Humour aside, there's no such thing as a stupid question (unless I ask it). I think the others on here have pretty well answered your question with great advice, just don't be afraid TO go on air if you encounter adverse conditions.

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    The MSA Firehawk SCBAs used by my old department allowed us to have the air turned on with the regulator clipped to the mask.You were breathing "regular" air but if you needed a pure source,you just pushed the regulator til it clicked and you were sucking from the tank you wear.The air didn't flow until the system noticed low pressure associated with someone breathing.
    Though we all turn on the air at the same time,it is entirely possibly for one member to go low on air before everyone else does.
    Added exertion from excitement,just coming off being sick,anything can cause it.As others have said,if one low air alarm goes off,the entire team pulls out.What if his was the only one working properly and everyone else was just as low on air as he was?

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    I feel very redundant throwing my pennies in, but since you asked. . .

    Use your air when you need it, OR when an officer or more experienced person tells you to. After you have started to cough is too late. Also, and maybe more importantly, only remove your air supply after you clear the hazard area, or are told by someone you trust with your lungs that the atmosphere you are in has been tested and there is no more need for your supplied air ( very low or zero CO, and adequate O2 ). If you have any doubt at all about the safety of the air OUTSIDE of that facepiece, keep it on. If the "old guys" harass you, visit them in the hospital, cancer center, or wherever they wind up. Wish I had been told that. . .

    and to your second question - "You go, WE go" 'nuff said

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    2 in 2 out! ..."Never leave your wing man." (Top Gun)... This is good advise in firefighting, also. Do not break the team up.

    Go on air when you need it. with me some times it is early some times too late. like one already said you cough it is already too late.

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