1. #1
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    Default Quoted price for new new Arrow XT

    We just got our latest set of specs back from Pierce, they quoted 545K plus taxes. What does everyone think about this price? It this what engines cost in 2007?

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    Hard to say without knowing what options you put into the specs.

    It seems very high to me, even for an engine with lots of options and features.

    In fact, I know of well equipped truck companies that can be had for prices in that neighborhood!

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    I agree with Chief Squirrel, we need a lot more information:
    • What size motor and transmission?
    • What size pump?
    • Does it have foam? What style? CAFS?
    • What type of body? Pumper, rescue/pumper, etc?
    • Custom lighting package?
    • Custom graphics?
    • Generator? What size?
    • Light tower? What size? Additional flood lights?
    • Auxiliary braking type? More than one auxiliary brake?

    All of these things can have a dramatic effect on the cost of a pumper, so fill in some of the blanks for us, and I'm sure we can do the same for you...

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    firemanwill,
    We just awarded a contract to Pierce for a 07 Arrow XT. If you can provide some specifics on your quote/spec, it would help me tell you if it is/isn't in the ballpark.

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    my companies brand new quantum rescue was quoted at 550,000.. www.levittownfire.com

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    my companies brand new quantum rescue was quoted at 550,000.. www.levittownfire.com

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    Default Arrow Xt options

    Here sre some of the options.

    Detroit 520 Hp
    Allison auto
    Standard Pierce class A foam system 30 gallon cell (NO CAFS)
    500 gallon water tank
    1500 GPM pump
    Arrow Xt custom pumper
    LED lighting package (nothing crazy)
    No wild graphics
    8K Harrison hydarulic PTO generator
    (7) 750w flood lights 200' electric cord reel
    norrmal braking
    No TAK 4 suspension
    No multiplexing

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    Having been on apparatus committees for many years, I do think that the price is a little steep. I would think that you'd be able to get the rig for about $475k, but there could be a few underlying things in the spec.
    • How many inspection trips?
    • How many people per trip?
    • Did the department put penalty clauses in the spec in case rig is not delivered in the quoted amount of time?
    • Is factory or dealer-delivered training included?
    • How long a warranty period is specified?

    Mpullen makes a comment about his department's rescue being $550k (BTW, nice rig, looked at it in person). One thing to remember about comparing rescues to pumpers from the engineering perspective - rescues are generally easy to design. Lots of square boxes that you mate together and then put on the chassis. When it comes to pumpers, it's a bit more challenging when you incorperate hose beds, length and height restrictions, and things of that nature. Therefore, you'll sometimes find a higher engineering cost associated with pumpers.

    However, getting a little more on topic, how did the Pierce spec compare to the other bidders?

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    We actually just received a price from Pierce on the following:

    Pierce Enforcer Chassis w/6 person cab
    Heavy Duty Rescue Pumper body (HDRP)
    400 hp Cummins ISL w/Jake
    1500 gpm Waterous single stage pump
    Husky 12 foam system
    500 gallon booster tank
    Wilburt Light Tower
    Hose reels for jaws
    Roll-up doors
    All LED lighting
    Front bumper intake as well as a front trash line
    Fed. Q2B
    TAK-4

    We were lucky enough to get our hands on a 2006 motor yet.

    I don't remember the exact $$$ amount, but I believe it was about $425,000.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firemanwill28 View Post
    We just got our latest set of specs back from Pierce, they quoted 545K plus taxes. What does everyone think about this price? It this what engines cost in 2007?
    The Raritan Twp FD, New Jersey took delivery of a new Pierce Dash Rescue Pumper last month, this apparatus was fully loaded at a cost of $ 539,000 .

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    Default Loose equipment

    Firemanwill28

    Did your specification require any loose equipment?

    Some departments in my area require hose, nozzles, hurst tools, deck guns, etc., etc.,........

    I have heard of pumper bids in the $430,000.00 to $475,000.00 for just the pumper with all the loose equipment, training, multiday factory trips, sometimes lap top computers and other diagnostic items added on top of the cost of the pumper.

    Just a thought.

    PS, I do like the Arrow XT. I was hoping my department would get one. They got an Enforcer instead (still a nice ride though).

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    Our Arrow XT Heavy Duty Rescue Pumper was delivered in Jan. for 540,000.

    Features:
    Series 60 515 hp (2006 motor)
    air conditioning
    electric windows
    TST compartment open indicator panel
    prewired for 5 radios with antennas and power and ground terminations
    4 station Firecom with pump panel jack
    ALS cabinetry in cab
    roll up doors with LED compt. lighting
    all shelves slide out or slide out tilt down
    2000 gpm Waterous SS with electric intake valves
    Husky 12 A and B foam system
    750 poly tank with 25 gal A and 40 gal B
    full height full depth compartments each side
    rear slide in ladder storage
    hose reel with 200' Neidner Hot Stop 1" hose
    twin Holmatro CORE reels
    twin brow lights with side and rear floods remote switching in cab and pump panel
    10kw Harrison hydraulic generator with hot shift PTO switched from pump panel or cab
    110 volt outlets in cab and multiple compartments
    110 volt transfer relay for shoreline to generator
    front bumper line with cover
    Alcoa aluminum wheels with 465 front tires
    Kussmaul charger with Pump Plus
    Kussmaul 40amp batter saver with multiple taps throughout the engine
    upper hatch compartments with rear ladder access
    All LED warning lights, Q siren and electronic siren and Opticom
    Heavy duty painted front bumper with front and rear chevrons
    Akron remote control Deckmaster with Sabermaster nozzle
    I could go on and on

    Other vendors pricing was close but only Pierce would give us a 3 year bumper to bumper warranty on everything.

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    Default Arrow XT in production

    Our Arrow XT which is currently in production...

    450 HP engine
    TAK 4 Suspension
    2000 GPM Waterous 2 stage pump
    500 gallon water tank
    Husky foam system with 3 discharges
    Five, 500 Watt Scene Lights built into body of vehicle
    Two, 1000 watt scene lights on telescoping poles
    FDNY style low hosebed (30" off rear bumper)
    200 foot electric cord reel
    two tone paint job
    mounting of customer supplied equipment

    Total is $470k

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    Firemanwill28: Pierce makes a good apparatus but the price they gave you is way too high for the information you published so far.

    For 545K you could probably get close to a Quint with a 50’+ rear mount aerial on top (+more equipment & a bigger gen. set). One question I had is the engine. Why so much HP for an engine? You could easily get by with something in the 425-450 range - even if you live up with the mountain goats. Walk right back to the table and tell them to drop it 60K – Then start looking at other builders, that is what keeps everyone honest. TL

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    Keep in mind Gents, a “warranty” is not a justification for a considerably higher $price$ tag. Warranty is supposed to be a testament to the quality of the apparatus you are buying – it is not akin to a “medical spending account” where you are asked to pay in advance for something that "might" go wrong. TL

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    Other vendors pricing was close but only Pierce would give us a 3 year bumper to bumper warranty on everything.
    Believe me, Pierce didnt "give" you a 3 year warranty. You purchased an extended warranty that was built into the price.
    I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.

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    Default Thanks for everyones help

    Thanks for all your replys. This will come in handy at our next committee meeting. We made the mistake last time we bought 2 H&W (small fire apparatus manufacture in Oregon) enigines together, they were one of the lower bids and now we have been paying the price for the past 7 years. We have have a 1994 Pierce Arrow 105' ladder and its one of the best trucks in our department. This quality is what were looking for and it will cost a bit more than the other manufactures, but we still have to keep them honest. Thanks again for all your help this has been a great site during the tedious procees of building an engine.

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    WAY TOO HIGH. Expected, but not right.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Smile

    Keep in mind Gents, a “warranty” is not a justification for a considerably higher $price$ tag. Warranty is supposed to be a testament to the quality of the apparatus you are buying – it is not akin to a “medical spending account” where you are asked to pay in advance for something that "might" go wrong. TL

    Right On Brother. I hope the brothers in the above threads at least got another quote from someone else or they probably got soaked......

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    Of course we paid for the warranty. It was not as much as you think. Our past experience has shown that the warranty cost has been less than out of warranty repairs. Most of the repairs in the past have been for other equipment and products Pierce installed. This goes for other apparatus we also have that are not manufactured by Pierce.

    Of course we could have bought a much cheaper apparatus. It wouldn't have the equipment we required.

    Of course we could get by with less horsepower. We like high performance apparatus.

    Our city government tends to purchase all of our products that are the best that money can buy and we have always enjoyed working with equipment that is high quality, provides great service and a long life span.

    We do our research well and have not had a problem having a budget to pay for our needs. Other vendors that bid on our specifications are usually not that much less than what we end up paying. We have looked at all the major manufacurers, visited their plants, seen their products after 5 10 and 15 years on the road and always end up coming back to the vendors that have provided us the best quality, service and value.

    We are only 150 miles from the Pierce factory. If a part is needed, we usually can get it overnight UPS unless it is something from another vendor. We also enjoy having 3 Pierce service facilities within 50 miles all with certified EVT technicians and one of the facilities is open 24/7. We also have the luxury of having a dealership that does a lot of volume sales thoughout the Chicago area which allows them to be very competitive with pricing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firemanwill28 View Post
    Thanks for all your replys. This will come in handy at our next committee meeting. We made the mistake last time we bought 2 H&W (small fire apparatus manufacture in Oregon) enigines together, they were one of the lower bids and now we have been paying the price for the past 7 years. We have have a 1994 Pierce Arrow 105' ladder and its one of the best trucks in our department. This quality is what were looking for and it will cost a bit more than the other manufactures, but we still have to keep them honest. Thanks again for all your help this has been a great site during the tedious procees of building an engine.
    Check with North Highline next door. They just bought a new Dash. See how much they paid for it. Central Pierce and East Pierce are other local departments that have recently purchased Dash rigs.

    Redmond also has some new Pierce engines on the way. Calling all these places would probably help you get a good idea of how much is reasonable. Obviously these trucks aren't Arrow XTs, but they'll at least give you a good ballpark idea of what's right and what's not.

    You might also be able to tag on to one of these orders, which could save you some $.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by OneL1L; 08-03-2007 at 11:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firemanwill28 View Post
    Here sre some of the options.

    Detroit 520 Hp
    Allison auto
    Standard Pierce class A foam system 30 gallon cell (NO CAFS)
    500 gallon water tank
    1500 GPM pump
    Arrow Xt custom pumper
    LED lighting package (nothing crazy)
    No wild graphics
    8K Harrison hydarulic PTO generator
    (7) 750w flood lights 200' electric cord reel
    norrmal braking
    No TAK 4 suspension
    No multiplexing

    I can tell you were alot of of the cost is.
    Your biggest cost was probably the Beast of a motor you speced also added for the heavy duty transmission to handle it. The foam system would have been anywhere from an extra 12-15 thousand and the 8k pto hydraulic generator was around $18,000.00 Thats where your price jumped up the standard pierce arrow xt is around $365,000.00-$385,000.00 with no fancy stuff and a 400hp motor. I dont know what body style you speced so that may have added some costs also of you went with full height and full dept compartmentations.

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    Default Arrow xt quote

    We have been working with pierce on a PUC and they told us there was a 10,000.00 difference between detroit and the lesser cummongs with the same horsepower and torque I am wondering if that is because they buy more cummings. On another note you guys who have already purchased your trucks, how close was the bid price compared to the origional Quote. This info is very important to us as we are about 30,000 over what we have to spend. I dont want to start cutting stuff if I dont have to..

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    Sorry, we do not have an original quote. We determined our needs, set our budget, wrote our specifications, put the project out to bid and then received our pricing. To budget the apparatus, we received pricing from a variety of deliveries from multiple manufacturers and also pricing on a variety of other features we intended to incorporate.

    Invitations to bid were sent to:
    Alexis, American LaFrance, Crimson, E-One, Ferrara, HME, KME, Marion, Pierce, Rosenbauer, Seagrave, Smeal, Sutphen, Toyne and Darley.

    Warranty required, factory authorized service shop location and capabilities, mobile service availability, pre-payment discounts, independent front suspension, number of previous builds similar to the proposal and other factors were all included in the specifications. Having to provide this information did scare away a lot of vendors. We put every section of the specification on a spreadsheet and a column for each bidder and then evaluated each section as to whether the bidder complied, exceeded, or was non-compliant. The results made it very difficult not to award the bid to Pierce. So far we have been extremely pleased with the product and feel the pricing was fair for what we received.

    As for pricing on Cummins vs. Detroit, we did not allow a variance on the engine requirement. We never have been happy with the acceleration of our Cummins nor willing to pay the extra cost to maintain a Cat. So, I have no idea what the other powerplants price would have been. I'm sure others have had a great experience with the other engines, for us, we have been happy with Detroit.
    Last edited by zfdtruckman; 08-08-2007 at 03:50 PM.

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    Post Pierce Quoted Base Prices

    ( Custom Contender $249,702 ) ( Impel Pumper $ 291,036 ) ( Velocity Pumper $ 381,494 ) (Impel 75' Alum Aerial Ladder Quint $ 566,369 ) ( Arrow XT Pumper $ 365,827 ) ( Quantum Pumper $ 515,284 ) ( Arrow XT 105, HD Aerial Ladder Quint $ 647,244 ) These units are State contracted prices , which may be ( 4 - 6 % ) lower priced than MSRP !....

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