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  1. #1
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    Question Chicago firefighters asking for the stars

    Let me know what you think about this. http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/lo...215181941.html
    Firefighters Demand Pay Raise, Living Stipends
    Daley Scoffs At Union Push For Meal And Vehicle Allowance And More
    (CBS) CHICAGO The union that represents Chicago firefighters is pushing for a salary increase, and a whole lot more. It also wants a meal and vehicle allowance, plus a stipend for living in the city.

    As CBS’s Mike Parker reports, Mayor Richard M. Daley is dousing their hopes of a big raise.

    Despite a time-consuming internal power struggle, the union which represents Chicago's 4,600 firefighters and paramedics has now shown the city its proposals for a new contract. And the mayor is fuming.

    Going all the way back to 1980 and the firefighter's strike under Mayor Jane Byrne, Chicago's mayors and the fire union have almost never gotten along. Friday’s exchange of words was a sign that Daley's relationship with the union is still anything but good.

    "You can go out and get another job,” Daley said. “Go out and get a job on the fire department in Oak Lawn."

    Local 2 of the Chicago Firefighters Union is asking the city to agree to a raise package amounting to 26 percent over four years and a $350 per month meal and vehicle allowance.

    Daley, who's wrestling right now with a looming budget shortfall of almost $218 million, obviously doesn't think much of the union's idea.

    "Double it. Tell them 20,000, make it 100,000, make it 300,000. That's what they do. Unions ask for as much as possible. Then you have to assess what the taxpayers want,” Daley said.

    Acting union President Tom Ryan said he’s well aware of the financial squeeze that has Chicagoans bracing for a heavy dose of post-election tax increases. But, he said, Chicago’s 4,600 firefighters and paramedics have legitimate demands.

    Ryan told the Sun-Times Friday, "It's expensive to live in this city. We still have bills to pay. I understand these are trying times but that does not outweigh the needs of my membership."

    That's why the union also wants a $3,500 per year bonus because firefighters must live in the city.

    Ryan refused to discuss the demands in detail, honoring a request from the city not to negotiate in public. But, he said, “These are just preliminary requests just to get the ball rolling. We may be adding some in the future.”

    "I'm not begging them to be a fireman. I'm not begging anybody to be a city employee,” Daley said. “You don't want to be one? Fine. Go get another job."

    The union also wants the city to agree to increase to five the number of firefighters on board all fire trucks in extremely hot or extremely cold weather.

    In response to that request, Daley said, “Let's put 28 on a truck. We'll give everybody a hose."

    The same five-employee minimum would apply when the Homeland Security Department raises the nation’s threat level to red.

    City Hall would also be prohibited from summoning outside fire or emergency medical services until “all ancillary equipment” and rehiring available from within the Chicago Fire Department has been exhausted.

    On the always-volatile issue of promotional testing, Local 2 is demanding that the city eliminate oral exams and make future promotions a split decision: Fifty percent would be based on results of written exams. Fifty percent would be based on seniority.

    Jim Franczek, the city’s chief labor negotiator, could not be reached for comment, nor could deputy corporation counsel David Johnson.

    The last time Local 2 negotiated a new, four-year deal, firefighters gave up so much in exchange for their 16 percent pay raise, the backlash ultimately cost union President Jim McNally his job.



    Now, I don't care for Mayor Daley but this line is a bit of a classic

    "You can go out and get another job,” Daley said. “Go out and get a job on the fire department in Oak Lawn."

  2. #2
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    Ryan refused to discuss the demands in detail, honoring a request from the city not to negotiate in public.
    Well, it appears that Mayor Daley isn't honoring his side of the request now, is he?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    I hope they get everything they ask for, it will just help us next time around.

    I do strongly agree with the 5 guys on a rig.

    City Hall would also be prohibited from summoning outside fire or emergency medical services until “all ancillary equipment” and rehiring available from within the Chicago Fire Department has been exhausted.
    However this is just stupid, the city comes out to Franklin Park and many other departments on a regular basis. To not allow outside units into the city is not providing the best service to the people of Chicago. Units from the DuPage county area were pulled in on the change when chicago had a high rise fire a few years back and it worked out just fine. To delay the assistance waiting for call backs doesn't make any sense.
    Last edited by ADSNWFLD; 08-03-2007 at 08:48 PM.

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    As someone who is forced to live in a city that is more expensive than Chicago I like the idea of a $3,500 living stipend as a city resident. It helps defer some of the pain of having to send your kids to private schools.

    Here's something that I would have thrown in: bring back the battalion chiefs aides. Those were done away with a long time ago, if I'm not mistaken. Talk about an important job in a city of that size.

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    I gotta agree with Gonzo's sentiment. The good Mayor's comments have certainly brought a level of professionalism to the discussion.

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    If anyone thinks 26% is out of line, I would like to ask them why. My property taxes have gone up 35% in the last three years, but I didn't hear anyone jumping to my defence. The city is crying poor mouth after spending a billion dollars on a park??? After the Iron fences? After the hired trucks? After aldermanic raises? Tough *****. The City forces us to live here, and now they want to cry that they have to pay us? The Mayor is annoyed now? Wait until the list gets longer........
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    From where I'm sitting Local 2 is only asking what is fair.

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by EFD840 View Post
    I gotta agree with Gonzo's sentiment. The good Mayor's comments have certainly brought a level of professionalism to the discussion.

    No kidding. I dont care if he doesnt agree with the offer or not but I cant believe an elected official would talk like that in Public. I would assume that this is not the first time he has spewed stuff like that.

    How does he keep getting elected over and over if he has a mentality like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bootstraps View Post
    How does he keep getting elected over and over if he has a mentality like that.
    It is Chicago and his last name is Daley...Vote early...vote often.

    FTM-PTB

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    Daley hates the firemen. A simple fact. They pretty much hate him too. Chicago has become an extremely expensive city to try and live on a firefighters salary. Tom Ryan is a good man and I am sure the negotiations will get worked out. Daley is not as powerful as he once was. Still he is the most powerful man in Illinois and he generally gets his way.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Eliminate residency and the one of the biggest issues of this particular case goes away. I have long thought residency was archaic and nothing more than a way to force you to pay part of your own salary.

    As for the pay raise, absolutely.

    As for the stipend to live in the city absolutely. Although to me a good option would be not to have to pay property taxes up to a set amount.

    5 Firefighters on a rig, absolutely. I know where I work when we can have 4 instead of 3 it is a completely different ball game. Although my demand would be 5 on any rig in a high run area of the city 24/7.

    Good luck with this my Chicago Brothers.

    FyredUp

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    Several thoughts...

    1.
    "You can go out and get another job,” Daley said. “Go out and get a job on the fire department in Oak Lawn."
    Aren't comments like this looked at as unfair labor practice?

    2. 26% over four years is in line with what just about every other fire/police bargaining unit gets out here.

    3. The $3500 residency bonus is also fair. It is one of those "Be careful what you ask for because you might get it" for the city. They wanted residency? They got it. And every thing else that goes along with it.

    4. It would seem to me that the $350 allowance is a throw-away.

    5. Why don't you guys take the mayor up on his offer for 28 members on an apparatus?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADSNWFLD View Post
    Daley, who's wrestling right now with a looming budget shortfall of almost $218 million, obviously doesn't think much of the union's idea."
    Sounds like the good mayor is doing a excellent job with the finances.

    Nobody is forcing him to be a $hitty mayor...maybe the citizens of Chicago would prefer that Daley be the mayor of Oak Lawn.
    "...there isn't a firefighter in the free world who is forced to join this profession." -John Norman

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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT View Post
    Tom Ryan is a good man...
    He is a stand up guy and well liked. I hope he is elected president next time.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    I hope they get whatever the Brothers ask for. The Aide to the Battalion Chief here as well as the 5th man on ladders was restored a few years back. The difference between 5 and 4 is enormous. Good luck to Local 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonJake2340 View Post
    Here's something that I would have thrown in: bring back the battalion chiefs aides. Those were done away with a long time ago, if I'm not mistaken. Talk about an important job in a city of that size.
    They should absolutely ask for battalion drivers back. Could you please hop the next flight and join our barganing unit?
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    As for the five man question - just to explain, we have 5 man trucks and engines. every day the city has 30 "variences" they can use to take one man off a rig. They also have 30 8-hour training variences a day to send people to the academy or whatever for special training. The 5 man clause would eliminate these variences under the specified conditions. Under normal circumstances there are five guys on trucks and engines here.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    [QUOTE=GeorgeWendtCFI;845911]Several thoughts...


    2. 26% over four years is in line with what just about every other fire/police bargaining unit gets out here.

    3. The $3500 residency bonus is also fair. It is one of those "Be careful what you ask for because you might get it" for the city. They wanted residency? They got it. And every thing else that goes along with it.

    QUOTE]


    2. IN LINE? Trust me, I think the raise is deserved and should be "IN LINE" but Im afraid thats probably not the case. I doubt our raises have totaled 26% in the last 8 years

    3. Good point. But, I kinda believe that maybe its a bargaining point to open up discussion on dropping residency requirements.


    Please remember, just because something is asked for, doesnt mean they actually get or even want the benefit. Its out there to be out there.
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF View Post
    As for the five man question - just to explain, we have 5 man trucks and engines. every day the city has 30 "variences" they can use to take one man off a rig. They also have 30 8-hour training variences a day to send people to the academy or whatever for special training. The 5 man clause would eliminate these variences under the specified conditions. Under normal circumstances there are five guys on trucks and engines here.
    You could go at them with a "constant staffing agreement" that way even if they don't want to hire the balance to fill the positions, it will generate a fair amount of OT.
    IAFF

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    Let me review...

    26% over four years is in line with what just about every other fire/police bargaining unit gets OUT HERE
    On the other point, of course it is a bargaining method to get rid of residency. That part of my post was purely sarcastic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R1SAlum View Post
    I hope they get whatever the Brothers ask for. The Aide to the Battalion Chief here as well as the 5th man on ladders was restored a few years back. The difference between 5 and 4 is enormous. Good luck to Local 2.
    Of course, you understand that in contract negotiaitions, nobody gets "whatever they ask for".

    What the Chicago guys are asking for is entirely reasonable. They are, by the accounts posted here anyway, acting very professionally. If this thing goes to arbitration (Do you have arbitration in IL?) Daley's comments will show that the City is not bargaining in good faith and will definitely work against them. I still remember a ruling somewhere that when the employer makes statements like the Mayor has made, they consider it an unfair labor practice.

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    If Daley wont go for the residency bonus, then push for the allowance to live outside the city limits. He probably wont go for that but an argument can be made....

    "if you want us to live in the rich city, your going to have to pay us for it."

    That gets out to the press, kind of the "in yo face" publicity that might be needed.

    Then again.... could go back to the early 80's....

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    [QUOTEIf this thing goes to arbitration (Do you have arbitration in IL?) Daley's comments will show that the City is not bargaining in good faith and will definitely work against them. I still remember a ruling somewhere that when the employer makes statements like the Mayor has made, they consider it an unfair labor practice.[/QUOTE]


    If the mayor of the city I work for made thoses comments our lawyer would have a field day. At least he/she would make it a very interesting case with the arbitrator.

    Is this the same Mayor Dailey that was there when I left Chicago in 1992?
    This space for rent

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    Good luck Chicago. Hope it work's out well in the end and I hope the mayor eats his words!
    Local #10

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    My new twin boys that I love even more than being on the job!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF View Post
    If anyone thinks 26% is out of line, I would like to ask them why. My property taxes have gone up 35% in the last three years, but I didn't hear anyone jumping to my defence. The city is crying poor mouth after spending a billion dollars on a park??? After the Iron fences? After the hired trucks? After aldermanic raises? Tough *****. The City forces us to live here, and now they want to cry that they have to pay us? The Mayor is annoyed now? Wait until the list gets longer........
    I hope you see the irony in your post. Your property taxes went up 35% so you want a 6.5% raise per year to offset that tax increase. Which in turn, will cause taxes to rise again. And HELL Yea, I'll take 6.5% a year anytime. the 3% or 4% just isn't keeping up.

    As a taxpayer I would take issue with the $3,500, as well as the meals and vehicle allowance. As for the $3,500 stipend I would ask why should you as a firefighter get a tax break and not every one else? That is essentially what that is. And why do you need a $350 per month allowance for meals and a vehicle? I could understand a meal allowance if you didn't have a kitchen and lounge in the fire house. I suspect like someone else said that is a throw away. I beleive the stipend is also a throw away, that way in the end they will get the 26% over 4 years.

    I also take issue with the promotion plan. 50% fro the written and 50% for seniority. Why just because someone has been in the position longer does that make him a better candidate. As far as I am concerned some people should never be promoted. A promotion should be based on qualifications, not length of service.

    One other thing, how much does a FF in Chicago make?

    Of course if Daly gives the fire department more money he won't have as much for his new stadium and to refurbish his office. And how many other pet (corrupt) projects does he have?

    Now!! Let the Bashing begin!
    Last edited by HotTrotter; 08-04-2007 at 09:21 PM.

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