1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Are you like 12 years old?

    Put a major US city under martial law. Use the National Guard to perform police functions.

    You not only do not have a clue about gang culture, you do not even know how your government works.

    I'm through with you.
    No, I'm not talking about having the military completely run the city. No. Just have them help the PD patrol the place. Give them vital aid. Obviously they need it. The PD they have up there - when it comes to that - is basically ineffective.

    They are going to have to do better or else there are going to be a lot of innocent people killed. There is no such thing as prevention any more for that city. They evidently need to take action.

    No, I'm not 12. I'm 26, soon to be 27. And as for being done with me, if it disturbs you that bad when someone gives their opinion...well, I don't know what to tell you. I was just expressing some ideas like everybody else.

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    Opinions do not bother me.

    Ignorance bothers me.

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    The only thing I was doing was suggesting ways that might make that place a safer way to live. If it can be done, fine. If it can't, well I didn't know. If that's ignorance to you, fine. But don't you think that's better than apathy? I could be sitting here saying "Hey, I'm in TN, they're in NJ...who cares if they all die?!" But I'm not like that

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Opinions do not bother me.

    Ignorance bothers me.
    Dear Mr Kindness!

    Yes, though the Happiness you witness and Anger you are experiencing are just two sides of the same coin.

    Both begin with Desire arising. Then Desire is (temporarily) either Fulfilled (happiness) or Unfulfilled (anger).

    Both keep you in the endless cycle of suffering arising from clinging to impermanence.

    What bothers you about seeing someone Happy is therefore the same thing that should bother you about being Angry -- both forms of suffering arise because of ignorance of the impermanent nature of being.

    True bliss arises when one lets go of desire altogether, and lets pure awareness resonate with itself in its natural state. Try it.

    I love google!


    SapphyreBlues This should take the heat off you for awhile.He really loves new targets!Post away Sapphyreblues I dont believe the FBI or local law enforcement calls george and ask for his defination of A SCHOOL SHOOTING: If you would talk to local parents I would bet they would consider it a school shooting.Sure it not the classic school hours shooting.In Kentucky if you sell drugs within 1000 feet of a school that close enough to up your jail time if found guilty!D
    Last edited by coldfront; 08-07-2007 at 08:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldfront View Post

    SapphyreBlues This should take the heat off you for awhile.He really loves new targets!Post away Sapphyreblues I dont believe the FBI or local law enforcement calls george and ask for his defination of A SCHOOL SHOOTING: If you would talk to local parents I would bet they would consider it a school shooting.Sure it not the classic school hours shooting.Hell here in Kentucky if you sell drugs within 1000 feet of a school that close enough to up your jail time if found guilty!D Bring it on george!
    Well I'm a newbie to this site, and a nonFF, so I'd say I'm an easy target. I'm thick skinned though, so it doesn't bother me Thanks for the support anyways

    And while, really, it doesn't fall under the normal school shooting classification, it still happened on a campus. It's very bothersome because you want to sit back and (naively) believe that schools are safe places for our kids. Be it morning or night, when they are there or not. As for what the local parents think, if they were to talk to the VT parents, they'll find that the pain is the same. Whether it was in the middle of class or not. Maybe it wasn't a "true" school shooting. Does that make it any less offensive? Certainly not.

    The law that y'all have in Kentucky is a good one. I'm not real sure of the TN law about that.

    I feel for the kids. I graduated in '98. And even though that was just 9 years ago, what I went through and what they are going through are so much different. It's gotten so much worse on them. Peer pressure is at an all time high. And so is bullying. I've heard commercials for parents where they can seek help if their child is being bullied, or is the bully. Kids nowadays, not all but some, are so dark and depressed. It's not like it used to be, where you get picked on and after a good cry, you get over it. Now they get guns and "get even". Not that bullying is right, but neither is shooting someone.

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    [QUOTE=coldfront;847289]

    SapphyreBlues This should take the heat off you for awhile.He really loves new targets!Post away Sapphyreblues I dont believe the FBI or local law enforcement calls george and ask for his defination of A SCHOOL SHOOTING: If you would talk to local parents I would bet they would consider it a school shooting.Sure it not the classic school hours shooting.In Kentucky if you sell drugs within 1000 feet of a school that close enough to up your jail time if found guilty!D[/QUOTE

    I was not criticizing anyone about the "definition of a school shooting". I couldn't care less.

    My point is that someone who is an adult in this day and age and can show complete ignorance about how their government operates is pathetic.

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    The sad thing not mentioned here is that Newark isn't the worst city in NJ:

    That title is held by its south Jersey counterpart, Camden.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post


    I was not criticizing anyone about the "definition of a school shooting". I couldn't care less.

    My point is that someone who is an adult in this day and age and can show complete ignorance about how their government operates is pathetic.
    Maybe it is. But then so is letting a bunch of thugs take over not just one or two cities, but several. If it keeps going on like y'all have described it, it won't be long before there is a complete breakdown of the policing structure concerning those gangs. NO, before I'm accused of it, I am in no way saying the PD is at fault, or that they aren't good at what they do. Maybe the problem escalated faster than they could handle the situation. All I was saying is they should get some serious back up. Perhaps "martial law" was the incorrect term for what I was suggesting. A serious problem needs a serious remedy. If it has indeed gotten as bad as y'all are saying it has, then I don't see the problem with them coming in to help. Especially at night. Obviously they aren't afraid of the PD. And what ones are caught, if the judicial system is like it is down here, they're out before the arresting officer even has the paperwork done on him.

    I know you're really gonna go nuts on this one, but in my opinion, they should get a prison sentence for just being in a gang. Think about it. They are kinda like terrorists. Not what we normally call a terrorist, but do they or do they not terrorize the neighborhoods they've taken over? I mean, just ask the 3 - 5 people a week who've been shot. That is if they've survived.

    But I guess until the judicial system catches up with the PD, it'll just be a revolving door...they get arrested...they get released. Maybe that would work. Just ship them off to prison. That'll change their attitude.

    Nevermind. I just remembered how the prisons are in this country. Don't get me started on prison reform But I will say this on that subject....when the person who killed somebody is living better than his/her victim's family, there is something seriously wrong.

    And here's another question. Why isn't the rest of the country hearing about this? Why isn't it being reported on? When it was NY, it was all over the news. When it was LA, it was all over the news. Why not NJ? I would have never guessed it would be that bad there.
    Last edited by SapphyreBlues; 08-07-2007 at 11:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite View Post
    The sad thing not mentioned here is that Newark isn't the worst city in NJ:

    That title is held by its south Jersey counterpart, Camden.
    Finally something we agree on.

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    SapphyreBlues This should take the heat off you for awhile.He really loves new targets!
    What a hero!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SapphyreBlues View Post
    If it gets really bad, do you suppose they could put it under martial law for a while? Bring in the military and tell them they gotta do what they gotta do to clear the streets of those people?
    Sure...why not? That's what America is all about! Justice for all. Land of Opportunity! Land of Liberty! Give me Liberty or give me Death! Honest Abe! Goerge and the Cherry Tree!

    Let's do this...bring in Osama Bin Laden and his thugs, let them set rule of law...cause Martial Dillon is way too busy right now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by coldfront View Post
    SapphyreBlues This should take the heat off you for awhile.He really loves new targets!Post away Sapphyreblues I dont believe the FBI or local law enforcement calls george and ask for his defination of A SCHOOL SHOOTING: If you would talk to local parents I would bet they would consider it a school shooting.Sure it not the classic school hours shooting.In Kentucky if you sell drugs within 1000 feet of a school that close enough to up your jail time if found guilty!D
    So I guess in your mind if someone gets held up and their wallet taken in a bank parking lot at midnight on a Saturday it's a bank robbery and not a mugging then, right?

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    SapphyreBlues, I'm guessing you really don't know much about gangs?

    Consider yourself lucky that you do not have any in your area.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by coldfront View Post
    Dear Mr Kindness!

    Yes, though the Happiness you witness and Anger you are experiencing are just two sides of the same coin.

    Both begin with Desire arising. Then Desire is (temporarily) either Fulfilled (happiness) or Unfulfilled (anger).

    Both keep you in the endless cycle of suffering arising from clinging to impermanence.

    What bothers you about seeing someone Happy is therefore the same thing that should bother you about being Angry -- both forms of suffering arise because of ignorance of the impermanent nature of being.

    True bliss arises when one lets go of desire altogether, and lets pure awareness resonate with itself in its natural state. Try it.

    Thank You, Rev. Coldfront. Your message to the masses, (or is it messes) is duly noted, and appreciated by most of us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    SapphyreBlues, I'm guessing you really don't know much about gangs?

    Consider yourself lucky that you do not have any in your area.
    That's the problem with middle America in reference to gangs. There are organized criminal groups-outlaw biker gangs, skinheads, street gangs, etc.-in every single town in America. A small farming town with a prevalence of migrant workers, for example, can bank on the presence of MS-13 or ALKQN. Rich white kids are drawn to facist hate groups. They are everywhere. I mean everywhere.

    I had a fire in an apt. complex in a pretty decent town. As I'm doing the fire, I am watching a "gathering" of young folks of apparently Latino descent. They must have been hockey fans as they were all wearing either Pittsburgh Penquins garb or other black and gold clothing. Some of their vehicles had yellow bandanas tied to the antennas. You get the picture.

    I grab some photos using my telephoto and call my buddy in the local prosecutor's office to let him know about this. He told me that there is no gang problem in this town. Apparently, the mayor and the police chief went on TV and annoucned that there were no gang members in their town. Denial and ignorance are the friends of criminals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Thank You, Rev. Coldfront. Your message to the masses, (or is it messes) is duly noted, and appreciated by most of us.
    Its nice to be appreciated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I grab some photos using my telephoto and call my buddy in the local prosecutor's office to let him know about this. He told me that there is no gang problem in this town. Apparently, the mayor and the police chief went on TV and annoucned that there were no gang members in their town. Denial and ignorance are the friends of criminals.
    That is a very good point about gangs and how communities try to pretend they're not in the area or if they recognize their presence they minimize the impact the gangs are having. I wonder if Newark had taken a "head in the sand" approach to the gangs when they started surfacing. Since I don't live there or in the area I am truly curious if Newark's initial response to gangs was denial/ignorance and if so, did that help create the issues they're facing today. I see communities in the area I live demonstrate similar denial to gangs, the PD is well aware and being proactive, but the residents and press seem to be downplaying it. Any thoughts George, or anyone else familiar with Newark?
    Last edited by mvfd27; 08-08-2007 at 10:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvfd27 View Post
    That is a very good point about gangs and how communities try to pretend they're not in the area or if they recognize their presence they minimize the impact the gangs are having. I wonder if Newark had taken a "head in the sand" approach to the gangs when they started surfacing. Since I don't live there or in the area I am truly curious if Newark's initial response to gangs was denial/ignorance and if so, did that help create the issues they're facing today. I see communities in the area I live demonstrate similar denial to gangs, the PD is well aware and being proactive, but the residents and press seem to be downplaying it. Any thoughts George, or anyone else familiar with Newark?
    In my view, there has been no denial at all. They know that is the problem and they have a very aggressive multi-agency anti-gang initiative. The problem is they are outmanned and, very often, outgunned.

    But, as the citizens of Newark are discovering, this is far from solely a law enforcement problem. This is a community problem. Once the members of the community start taking responsibility for the households and their neighborhoods, and refuse to accept this level of violence as "normal", the tide will change.

    I've worked EMS in urban areas and I have had many investigations that have taken me to places like Newark, Camden, Trenton and Jersey City. When you get in there and you actually talk to these people, you find out that the overwhelming majority of them are good, decent people who are stuck in this situation or who do not want to leave. The violent, criminal element and the drug industry is definitely in the minority. The community in Newark is awakening to this reality. I hope it works.

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    this is far from solely a law enforcement problem. This is a community problem. Once the members of the community start taking responsibility for the households and their neighborhoods, and refuse to accept this level of violence as "normal", the tide will change.
    Nah, let's blame the "system" instead.
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    Thanks George, like I said in this area it seems to be the only people concerned with it are the police and the people whose kids are getting caught up in the gangs. The media and others are downplaying it, trying to keep up the image of a safe, happy midwestern heartland city. But, the police are very proactive and for the most part staying on top of things.

    Thanks again for the answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    SapphyreBlues, I'm guessing you really don't know much about gangs?

    Consider yourself lucky that you do not have any in your area.
    Yeah, I've been informed of that several times in this thread. Along with the fact that I'm "ignorant", "pathetic", and "clueless". Hey, I was just throwing out ideas and making conversation like everybody else.

    I do consider myself lucky or blessed. Whichever. It's not a perfect place I live in, but at least I can go outside at night without worrying about being shot. Or worse.

    I'll leave this thread with this....May God help them, because whatever they're doing certainly isn't helping. God can help when all else fails. I'll probably get flamed for that remark, but I don't care.

    **edited to add...**
    If things start to get better up that way, please post about it. I'd really like to see some good news coming from there soon. Y'all might think that sounds stupid coming from someone sitting here in TN while all that's up in NJ. Well there are innocent people up there that don't deserve what they're going through. I have Never heard any of this on the news. And that's sad. Really it is. NJ really isn't that big of a state. And for that many cities - and major ones - to be taken over is terrible. Well not "taken over" but you know what I mean.

    Nonetheless, I don't wanna go back and forth about the "what to do's" anymore. Anyways, if any of y'all from NJ hear about the PD or any task force making headway with those people, please post about it. I don't have time to sit and search for stuff, since I'm busy with my grandma and things around the house. Besides, like I've said, it's not reported on so I'd be busy searching for a while So if y'all don't care pass some info along to me if you hear anything, as I'm interested in how this will turn out.
    Last edited by SapphyreBlues; 08-08-2007 at 10:57 PM.

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    Good solid police work. But this is going to get worse before it gets better. This scumbag is an illegal (imagine that) who has been indicted twice already this year. In July, he was indicted for raping and threatening to kill, a little girl. Strangely, no prosecution official wants to talk about his bail status.

    Don't even ask about the death penalty. We had it, but handled put anyone to death since 1963. Then, the NJ Supreme Court took it away last year.

    Newark slaying suspect pleads not guilty
    NEWARK, N.J. (AP) -- A suspect accused of murdering three college students and wounding a fourth pleaded not guilty today to the crimes.

    Speaking through an Spanish-language interpreter, Jose Carranza said he understood the charges against him. It was his first court appearance since he surrendered Thursday to Mayor Cory A. Booker.

    Carranza, an Orange resident who is from Peru and in the country illegally, could barely be heard in the courtroom, as Booker and relatives of the victims looked on.

    Bail was continued at $1 million for Carranza, and state Superior Court Judge Michael R. Casale ordered that the suspect be held apart from other inmates at the Essex County Jail for his protection.

    Carranza's lawyer, Felix Lopez Montalvo, declined to comment after the 11-minute hearing.

    A second suspect, a 15-year-old boy, has been held pending a detention hearing. Authorities are seeking to have him tried as an adult

    The shootings ratcheted up anger in New Jersey's largest city, where overall crime has declined but where the number of killings continued at last year's pace with 60 homicides so far this year. The killings have prompted billboards in the downtown area that scream, "HELP WANTED: Stop the Killings in Newark Now!"

    Authorities said they hoped to make more arrests in the execution-style killings.

    "We believe that others were involved in this heinous crime," Essex County Prosecutor Paula T. Dow said. "We're looking for them."

    The arrests were disclosed Thursday in a series of dramatic events, which included the direct involvement of the mayor.

    When Carranza, 28, surrendered, "He said no words whatsoever," Booker said. In turn, "I had absolutely nothing to say to this individual."

    On Wednesday night, police arrested the 15-year-old from Newark. Then, during a news conference Thursday announcing that arrest and the search for Carranza, Booker got word that Carranza wanted to surrender.

    Hours later, Carranza, hands cuffed behind his back and wearing a black "Hulkamania" T-shirt and light-colored shorts, was escorted into police headquarters via a back door. He did not respond to questions as he was taken inside.

    Booker said Carranza had at least three prior arrests and was facing an aggravated assault charge in a separate case.

    According to court records obtained by The Star-Ledger of Newark, Carranza was indicted by grand juries in New Jersey twice this year _ in April on aggravated assault and weapons charges; and in July on 31 counts which included aggravated sexual assault of a child under 13 years old and endangering the welfare of a child he had a duty to supervise.

    Authorities do not believe the four victims knew the assailants before encountering them Saturday. Carranza and the teen are not related, Dow said, but she didn't elaborate on how they knew each other. The teen's name was not released because of his age.

    The four victims, friends aged 18 to 20, were shot while visiting in a school yard not far from their homes Saturday night. Authorities have said robbery appeared to be the motive.

    Terrance Aeriel, 18, Dashon Harvey, 20, and Iofemi Hightower, 20, were forced to kneel against a wall and were shot at close range. The fourth victim, 19-year-old Natasha Aeriel, Terrance Aeriel's sister, survived a wound to her head and is hospitalized.

    Despite being under sedation for periods of time, Natasha Aeriel was able to help authorities identify the suspects, the mayor said.

    Officials said fingerprints on a bottle found at the shooting scene and ballistics evidence tied Carranza to the crime. Carranza and the teen were charged with three counts of first degree murder, one count of attempted murder, and other charges.

    Police Director Garry F. McCarthy declined say if authorities had determined who fired shots and what kind of weapon or weapons were used.

    In response to the crime, residents and law enforcement organizations donated $150,000 to aid the victims' families and to a reward fund.

    All four victims were planning to attend Delaware State University this fall. Instead, three were to be buried Saturday in separate services.


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    Good to hear they got some of the people involved in this tragedy. Hopefully, if there are others, they can catch them too. Nothing can bring the 3 lives lost, but at least the families can get some closure knowing those responsible will get what they deserve.

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    Never mind. I was wrong. He didn't do it.

    To his family, an innocent man
    Friday, August 10, 2007
    BY WILLIAM KLEINKNECHT AND BRIAN DONOHUE
    Star-Ledger Staff
    Ten months ago he was charged with assaulting bar patrons with a broken bottle and a chair.

    Last month, a 31-count indictment accused him of raping a little girl repeatedly over a four-year period and threatening to kill her family.

    Yet for all this, police say, Jose Carranza managed to make bail and stay on the streets long enough to commit the crime that has sent shock waves through the region -- the executions of three college students in a Newark schoolyard Saturday.

    "This is not an individual who should be loose on the streets," Essex County Sheriff Armando Fontoura said. "He needs to be locked away."

    But while police see him as a ruthless killer, neighbors described Carranza as a doting father who was often seen walking with his daughter on the street in the working-class neighborhood in Orange.

    Carranza's three-story house on Lakeside Avenue is clad in light-green aluminum siding, its front yard littered with children's toys and lawn gnomes. In a home with Peruvians on the first floor and Salvadorans on the second, 10 American flags were stuck in the front lawn.

    Carranza lives five doors down from his sister, Diana, who said he worked in demolition, but who had no other details about his employment.

    "He works, he's an honest, quiet person," the sister said as she stood on the steps of her home. The sister said he lived with his wife, his infant daughter, his sister, her two children and his wife's sister.

    A brother, Jesus Larchire, said the family is from northern Peru, but he declined to comment about Carranza's immigration status.

    Marilyn Ward, who lives on the other side of Diana Carranza's house on Lakeside Avenue, said she was shocked when she heard Jose Carranza had been charged with the schoolyard murders.

    "I just can't comprehend that," Ward said. "The man is nothing like that. He's never shown that character at all."

    Ward said Carranza even mowed her lawn and helped her carry heavy furniture. She said he was part of a tight-knit family: "They were very family-oriented." She said she would often go to birthday parties for his many nieces and nephews in his home or his sister's house a few doors down.

    The image of Carranza as a family man and solid neighbor contrasts with the picture painted by his arrest record.

    Carranza, 28, was charged in January with committing a range of sex acts with the girl over a four-year period in Newark, beginning when she was 5. He is also accused of threatening to kill her and her family in what authorities said was an attempt at witness intimidation, according to court records.

    He posted $150,000 bail in February and was released from the Essex County Jail.

    Last month, the sexual assault charges against Carranza resulted in a 31-count indictment that accuses him of aggravated sexual assault, endangering the welfare of a child and other crimes.

    He is accused of having sexual relations with the child, now 9, between 2003 and this year, according to court records. He is charged under a statute reserved for people who assault children under their care, but prosecutors would not comment on his relationship to the child. He is awaiting trial before Superior Court Judge Thomas Vena.

    The same judge is also handling the assault charges, in which Carranza and Persy Leyva, 28, were charged on Oct. 21, 2006, with assaulting four patrons with a broken bottle and a chair at Huguito's, a small Peruvian restaurant and bar at White Street and Ashland Avenue in West Orange, according to court records. He was released from jail after posting $50,000 bail.

    Carranza was charged in the assault case under an alias, Jose Larchire.

    Fontoura said his staff checked Carranza's Social Security number yesterday and found it was bogus.


    SPEAKING UP FOR BROTHER

    Felix Lopez-Montalvo, the attorney who is representing Carranza in all three cases, would not comment. But Carranza's sister, Diana, said her brother was at her home at the time of the killings and turned himself in because he was innocent.

    "What would you do," the sister asked, "would you be on the run or would you turn yourself in?"

    Larchire also said his brother is innocent.

    Larchire said police came to the homes of several family members last night for questioning and took him into custody. After Larchire was released from police custody at 5 a.m., he was watching a Spanish-language television station with his family when they saw the news. Soon afterward, Carranza called to tell his mother he was turning himself in.

    "My mother was worried, so he said, 'Listen, I don't have nothing to do with this,'" Larchire said. "He told my mother, 'Don't worry about it, there's something wrong here.'"

    Larchire said that if Carranza was guilty, he would have fled the country.


  25. #50
    Badgerland FOOL
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    Kinda throws an interesting twist in things based on his family's statements. But, I have seen in plenty of murder cases that the family says "so and so would never do that and he was with me the whole night"

    But, families will lie to protect their own. But there are alot times the cops and DA go after wrong person. So, it should be interesting to see how this all plays out. Ideally, the right person will get the appropriate punishment in the end.

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