1. #1
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    Default FF Mayday VIDEO and RADIO traffic!

    This was just posed by www.TheBravestOnline.com. It is from the Houston, Texas high rise fire on March 28th, 2007 when Captain Eric Abbt called for a mayday while rescuing victims on the 5th floor. This RADIO traffic with video from the scene is amazing. This should be a great training tool and should also be somthing to critique.

    Let me know your thoughts. Direct Link to the video: http://www.thebravestonline.com/news...view=1&id=1619

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    HOLY $HIT!!!!

    I had to watch twice just to get the radio traffic. Made my hairs on the back of my neck stand up, scared the crap out of me! I would never wish that stress on any Incident Commander, officer or firefighter anywhere.

    I am so glad the Capt. and the crew of E-8 got out. Too bad for the victims but kudos to that crew!

    Great training tool.
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

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    very interesting video,glad that the capt and his crew were safe.sorry for the victims.

    i think,this video can be helpful for many firefighters.
    "sauver ou périr"

    "courage et dévouement"

    2 french mottoes in french fire service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    HOLY $HIT!!!!
    I'll second that!


    AZFF
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    I'm halfway through this video and I already want to strangle the incident commander. Does he enjoy listening to himself or is he just oblivious to all the radio feedback? Turn down the other radios blasting around yourself when you talk or nobody will hear a word you say.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    I listened to it last night and the question I have is did anyone else seem to think the IC didn't acknowledge the mayday after being told by dispatch at least twice I think? kinda scary

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    I'm halfway through this video and I already want to strangle the incident commander. Does he enjoy listening to himself or is he just oblivious to all the radio feedback? Turn down the other radios blasting around yourself when you talk or nobody will hear a word you say.
    And just how many mutiple alarm high rise fires with a firefighter trapped have you made.

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    None thankfully and I'd like to keep it that way. But emergency communications is my career and my hobby. Things like this drive me absolutely nuts. I know that when I'm talking with a lot of feedback, it is going to hinder other people from understanding what I have to say. It is hard enough to understand with no other noises. Trying to understand it through an SCBA with all the other noises around you and it is inviting problems. The incident commander's radio transmissions being distorted can cost people their lives. Every effort should be made to ensure your communications are coming through as clear as possible. Inside a structure, there is only so much you can do. But the IC standing outside... there is no reason he should be talking through the entire incident with all that feedback.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Exclamation

    And as soon as you make a few large incidents you will understand the IC’s priorities are for the mayday not who has a radio on. Firefighting is my career and Monday morning quarterbacking, from people who were not there, drives me nuts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jack61sgfd View Post
    And as soon as you make a few large incidents you will understand the IC’s priorities are for the mayday not who has a radio on. Firefighting is my career and Monday morning quarterbacking, from people who were not there, drives me nuts.
    And if the IC cannot effectively communicate with the downed FF because of the people around him, then he does not do his job right! It is not MMQBing, it is learning from someone else's mistake, and not doing it yourself.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    And if the IC cannot effectively communicate with the downed FF because of the people around him, then he does not do his job right! It is not MMQBing, it is learning from someone else's mistake, and not doing it yourself.
    And how did he not communicate effectively, he sounds like a rock on the radio. One of his men has just issued a mayday and to keep his cool, I would work form him anyday. How can you sit here and said he made a mistake? This is why I dont post on here often, a great tool to help us learn was posted and the wingnuts come out from thier perfect fire departments.
    Last edited by jack61sgfd; 08-08-2007 at 12:58 PM.

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    Thanks AJ!

    And BTW Jack, it makes no difference what kind of building it is or how big the fire is. A high rise or a 15x20 beach bungalow. Effective communication remains the same and can be just as deadly when it is compromised. If you don't want to post here because not everyone is going to sugar coat every incident with hugs and kisses, that is your loss. I for one intend to learn something from reading these forums even if it means reading about mistakes or things that could be improved upon. Sometimes I might have something to add in return. If someone reading this remembers "Oh yea, that annoying feedback is making it so people can't hear me", then it was worth putting up with your discontent.

    I didn't say he did a bad job. I think he maintained his cool really well. I'm talking about the radio communications feedback on his end that would have MADE IT BETTER AND SAFER
    Last edited by nmfire; 08-08-2007 at 12:59 PM.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jack61sgfd View Post
    And how did he not communicate effectively, he sounds like a rock on the radio. One of his men has just issued a mayday and to keep his cool, I would work form him anyday. How can you sit here and said he made a mistake? This is why I dont post on here often, a great tool to help us lean was posted and the wingnuts come out from thier perfect fire departments.
    Jack, calm down, and take a happy pill. I NEVER once said that he made a mistake, only ways to better run things at his CP. We ARE using this as a great tool to learn.
    As for my FD being perfect? HAH! Far from it. However, we LEARN from our MISTAKES, as well as those of others, to ensure that we do not make them in the future.

    As a dispatcher, FF, and EMT, I know a thing to two about radio comms, and how one comes across on the radio.

    So, how about calming down, chilling out, and engaging in a calm, civil debate about how to better ourselves, and our depts.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
    Member, IACOJ.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    If you don't want to post here because not everyone is going to sugar coat every incident with hugs and kisses
    I WANT A HUG!!!

    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
    Member, IACOJ.
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    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

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    My appreciation for your support will only go so far
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jack61sgfd View Post
    And how did he not communicate effectively, he sounds like a rock on the radio. One of his men has just issued a mayday and to keep his cool, I would work form him anyday. How can you sit here and said he made a mistake? This is why I dont post on here often, a great tool to help us learn was posted and the wingnuts come out from thier perfect fire departments.

    I thought the IC did a great job on the radio, as well.

    Any type of greater alarm, especially with a scenario such as this, is going to create tremendous communication issues.
    I thought I heard 4-11 called at some point. Is this Houston terminology for a 4th alarm?
    Here, that is right around 25 total companies, in other words a lot of radio traffic.
    Managing a fire, and then adding the RIT into the mix will tax your communication beyond your wildest dreams. I thought they sounded competent, coordinated, and professional.
    Last edited by jasper45; 08-08-2007 at 01:44 PM.

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    I hate having dial-up. My PC is taking forever to load this.

    I really want to see it though. Maybe I'll have to sneak to a friends house to see it if my PC keeps being gay about this.

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    Thanks for sharing this video. I shared it with a few of my buddies at the station as well.

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    Man I remember that day. I was getting my stuff ready for work the next day when my roommate (also HFD) said there was a high rise on fire. We pulled up the audio online and listened to it. Never has my stumach felt so sick.
    Im not going to get into all the bs about right or wrong. Yeah stuff didnt go as well as planned but thats at every fire. The main thing is our guys did a hell of a job to get to Capt. Abbt as did he. Thank God that everyone turned out ok that day.

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    By no means am I pointing blame, because I wasn’t there, but it seemed to me as there was major confusion as to where he was. If I heard correctly, the Engine 8A crew was in the stairwell, and that’s where the IC kept telling the S&R group to keep searching. Finally someone told him that the Captain was in the northwest (I believe was said) side of the 5th floor. So I think part of the reason that it took so long to figure out where he was is because of some communication problems. Then again, the Captain wasn’t exactly in the best position to give a report as to where he was.

    I just would like to know how he got by himself. How did the rest of Engine 8A regroup in the stairwell and the Captain was by himself?

    All in all, I am happy that the Captain made it out and made a good recovery. I hope the person who set this fire goes away forever. I am for sure going to buy the DVD and show it to my department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinFFVFD View Post
    By no means am I pointing blame, because I wasn’t there, but it seemed to me as there was major confusion as to where he was. If I heard correctly, the Engine 8A crew was in the stairwell, and that’s where the IC kept telling the S&R group to keep searching. Finally someone told him that the Captain was in the northwest (I believe was said) side of the 5th floor. So I think part of the reason that it took so long to figure out where he was is because of some communication problems. Then again, the Captain wasn’t exactly in the best position to give a report as to where he was.

    I just would like to know how he got by himself. How did the rest of Engine 8A regroup in the stairwell and the Captain was by himself?

    All in all, I am happy that the Captain made it out and made a good recovery. I hope the person who set this fire goes away forever. I am for sure going to buy the DVD and show it to my department.
    E8a is the radio designation for the captain. Our radio designations are A,B,C,D. For example...

    E8 A is the captain
    E8 FF B is the FF that rides behind the captain. (Firstline)
    E8 FF C is the FF that rides behind the driver. (Plugs)
    E8 FF D is the EO. (chauffer)

    As for how he got seperated Im not real sure. Ive heard people talking about it but its all hearsay. I wasnt there. I heard FF B&C saying they were out of air as they hit the stairwell so they were out of air too.
    I do know that things were stacked up against those guys from the word go.
    E44 and L44 were first on scene and went on location with fire showing and victims leaning out the 6 and 7 floor windows. Thus they went automatically into rescue mode. The second in pumper was out of service making things worse. Im just glad I wasnt the guy riding the seat. I think all in all those guys did an excellent job getting everyone home.

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    Hey Jack....take a pill, you are missing the point. How many high rises have you been on??? Doesn't matter. It's not a "how big is your pecker" contest.

    Whenever you have a large fire like this, nothing goes perfectly. Murphy's Law kicks in and you just have to deal with it.

    Personally, I thought the IC did a wonderful job with staying calm, cool and collected. That is a hell of a lot of responsibility to contain the fire and rescue the victims, not to mention the added burden of your own men going down.

    Only the people that were there can say for sure, however the feedback was aweful. I'll be willing to bet he was so focused on what was happening, he didn't even hear the feedback until he listened to it afterward. The radio traffic to him was the opposite, it was clear but the stress of the situation made him yell into the radio. But put yourself in his boots for a minute. Think about what you would do in that situation. You can say you will be calm and cool but you can't say you won't be yelling too until you have been there. I wouldn't rip him for doing it either, I probably would have too, thankfully I have not been in that situation. Came close but not like that. Kudos should go to the IC's of world and their secret decoder ring to make out some of those radio transmissions.

    Thank God, all are ok. Now we use it as a learning tool and learn from others on how not to make the same mistakes. You are obligated to look at this situation. If we don't analize it and pick it appart, we are doing our brothers and sisters all over the world a disservice if we didn't for the purpose of making sure this doesn't happen again.

    All went home. That's the point.
    Last edited by Dickey; 08-09-2007 at 01:31 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    Hey Jack....take a pill, you are missing the point. How many high rises have you been on??? Doesn't matter. It's not a "how big is your pecker" contest.

    Whenever you have a large fire like this, nothing goes perfectly. Murphy's Law kicks in and you just have to deal with it.

    Personally, I thought the IC did a wonderful job with staying calm, cool and collected. That is a hell of a lot of responsibility to contain the fire and rescue the victims, not to mention the added burden of your own men going down.

    Only the people that were there can say for sure, however the feedback was aweful. I'll be willing to bet he was so focused on what was happening, he didn't even hear the feedback until he listened to it afterward. The radio traffic to him was the opposite, it was clear but the stress of the situation made him yell into the radio. But put yourself in his boots for a minute. Think about what you would do in that situation. You can say you will be calm and cool but you can't say you won't be yelling too until you have been there. I wouldn't rip him for doing it either, I probably would have too, thankfully I have not been in that situation. Came close but not like that. Kudos should go to the IC's of world and their secret decoder ring to make out some of those radio transmissions.

    Thank God, all are ok. Now we use it as a learning tool and learn from others on how not to make the same mistakes. You are obligated to look at this situation. If we don't analize it and pick it appart, we are doing our brothers and sisters all over the world a disservice if we didn't for the purpose of making sure this doesn't happen again.

    All went home. That's the point.


    I agree with you dickey, i'm glad all brothers got to go home. and thats the only thing that really matters

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post

    Personally, I thought the IC did a wonderful job with staying calm, cool and collected. That is a hell of a lot of responsibility to contain the fire and rescue the victims, not to mention the added burden of your own men going down.

    I'll be willing to bet he was so focused on what was happening, he didn't even hear the feedback until he listened to it afterward.

    All went home. That's the point.
    Two very very good points.
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    Your probably right. Which is why I bring it up. A lot of people either wouldn't notice it happening during the incident or aren't picking up on the problems it can cause while critiquing it. Everyone is so focused on what is happening that little things like that can go unnoticed. Little things can make differences.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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