1. #1
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    Default What's wrong in this picture?

    This was linked in the last secret list e-mail. Normally, I do not like to comment on tactics, but there is too much wrong here to pass this up. Beyond the obvious, how many things do you see wrong?

    http://www.ksffa.com/Firenews%20Augu...harpe_fire.htm
    Last edited by JD1234; 08-10-2007 at 08:18 PM.

  2. #2
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    What's wrong in this picture?
    It got posted on the forums. With the typical circumstances of having the least amount of information on what the entire situation is.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    If that level of service is acceptable to that community then it is just fine with me.
    I believe them bones are me. Some say we are born into the grave. I feel so alone, gonna end up a big ol' pile a them bones

    -J. Cantrell

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    Exclamation

    i saw the pic,as a civilian,here is what i saw wrong:the guys did not have any PPE and one was smocking.

    now,we do not know all the infos concerning this fire.why only 2 men to fight fire?
    "sauver ou périr"

    "courage et dévouement"

    2 french mottoes in french fire service.

  5. #5
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    Smile whats wrong with this picture???

    LCGFD. Larry the cable guy fire department, Git-er-done!

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    Not much is needed if you don't plan on going in them.
    RK
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    It got posted on the forums. With the typical circumstances of having the least amount of information on what the entire situation is.
    So being close to the hot zone without PPE does not present a problem? The caption to the picture even says, "Hopefully you will communicate to each other on what is wrong with this picture and to make sure that all fire departments in your area not only have bunker gear but wear them."

    In my opinion, there are certain things you never do at a fire scene. This is one of them.

  8. #8
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    So being close to the hot zone without PPE does not present a problem?
    Nope, not one bit. I'm not one of them, not there, or on that department, or know anything about the situation. This maybe all their community can or wants afford for all I know.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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    Agree: Maybe this is the best they have, dangerous? Can't really tell. I'm not gonna tear them up cause I wasn't there. Maybe some small piece of family history was saved making this a "save".

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    Honestly, I don't even see any smoke, flames or steam in the picture. Is this even a fire?
    The question asked here is, what is wrong with this picture? There is not enough information given to make any kind of criticism, or praise.

    All I see is two guys spraying water thru a window; is there even a fire in the building? You have to do far better than this to rip a department apart.

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    Fair enough. Their department just received an AFG grant for $20,000 for personal protective equipment. So if these guys have none, hoepfully they get gear and wear it.

    I was making an assumption that every firefighter in every fire department had turnout gear. Every firefighter has gear in our department and surrounding departments. Now, if everyone who HAD gear WORE their gear during incident response, but that's a different topic. The picture reminded me of some of the guys that show up on our incidents without gear and attempt to go to work without gear when they have gear assigned to them.

    I'm not looking to rip anyone. The picture caption says that they are knocking down a fire. It also says that the KSFA does not condone what is shown in the picture.
    Last edited by JD1234; 08-10-2007 at 08:17 PM.

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    I was just happy that this wasn't Arkansas, but it looks like our dept around here. I for one did not have turnouts the fire year on my dept. And with the heat in these parts, I can understand why they would be dressed like that, with NO smoke or fire showing.


    Reminds me of the picture on the front page, with a ff at a accident with just a t-shirt and shorts. Oh wait, that was me.

  13. #13
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    Perhaps a decision was made to not wear the gear based on heat indeces in excess of 100 degrees?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    It got posted on the forums. With the typical circumstances of having the least amount of information on what the entire situation is.
    What additional information do you need? They're at a fire with no PPE.....
    Luke

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    Holly S**t!!

    What are these morons thinking?

    Wearing a sleeveless shirt to a fire is never acceptable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    Holly S**t!!

    What are these morons thinking?

    Wearing a sleeveless shirt to a fire is never acceptable.
    wow,you just sumed up what the guys said when they saw this pic.
    "sauver ou périr"

    "courage et dévouement"

    2 french mottoes in french fire service.

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    One of the guys on my truck last night was talking about this. Pretty entertaining.

    If they are members of the FD, and were called to this fire, and I'm assuming they responding on a truck, because that's not a garden hose, the should have some PPE. Even just Bunker Pants would make this a lot safer. But more info. would be great.

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    Good ole boy fire department at its finest. I guess they didnt go in because they didnt have any gear to put on. Did anyone notice the article. "They were able to knock down the flames within about 10 minutes, but not before the home was gutted." No wonder the house was gutted look at what these citizens are working with. I consider this an injustice to the citizens of this town.
    Oh yeah where it says two youngsters started the fire is classic. I swear while I was reading this I heard banjos kick up in the background.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SWLAFireDawg View Post
    Perhaps a decision was made to not wear the gear based on heat indeces in excess of 100 degrees?
    Doesnt matter how hot it gets, if for some reason you need to go in it will be too hot for jeans and a tshirt. What if there is something inside that explodes. Our policy is always be ready for anything. Down here in MS heat indexes are in excess of 100 quite a bit. I still go full tunout gear. You just have to rehab a little sooner. If they dont have turnout gear I bet they are happy for the grant.

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    Originally the KSFFA did not have
    "**Note - The KSFFA does not condone this picture. Hopefully you will communicate to each other on what is wrong with this picture and to make sure that all fire departments in your area not only have bunker gear but wear them."
    above the photo until a member of KSFFA sent out an e-mail, to all state members who subscribe to their group mail, concerning what they saw to be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    Honestly, I don't even see any smoke, flames or steam in the picture. Is this even a fire?
    The question asked here is, what is wrong with this picture? There is not enough information given to make any kind of criticism, or praise.

    All I see is two guys spraying water thru a window; is there even a fire in the building? You have to do far better than this to rip a department apart.
    Regardless of wether it is a fire or not, if you using a charged line you should have gloves and a helmet on IMO.

  22. #22
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    Regardless of wether it is a fire or not, if you using a charged line you should have gloves and a helmet on IMO.
    If you want to criticize someone, because of a single picture, feel free, I won't. I know that everyday I'm at work I could take a picture and make some pretty ridiculous statements about what is in the photo. Are you or your department different somehow?

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    After viewing that picture, I was reminded (in my mind) of a comment made by a volunteer FF (and a paid man) a couple years ago. This dept. was on a fire run and called for mutual aid from a paid dept. The vol. FF had no protective gear on; the paid dept. showed up in turn out gear. When one of the paid men told the vol. he needed to have protective gear on, the reply: "I'm a volunteer/we're a volunteer dept, we'll be ok. " This paid guy replied, "I didn't know fire distinguished between paid and volunteers."

    As jasper noted, there are things that happen everyday we could take pictures of and criticize. Maybe these guys had gear on, but removed it for whatever reason. Farfetched, maybe, but it could happen. I also agree with the gloves and helmet on if you have a charged line. Anyway, I wasn't there and didn't see the whole picture, but the photo would cause me to question a few things.

    Let me ask this: for those who work in EMS (and fire), after seeing that picture, what is the difference between that and going on an EMS run with no gloves? Yes, you can get hurt and die faster from the fire/etc., but nowdays, if you get into someone's blood without being protected, you can also get hurt and die - a slow, painful death from diseases such as hepatitis and HIV/AIDS.

    Presonal protective equipment is there for a reason, for both fire and EMS.
    Last edited by ladymed; 08-13-2007 at 02:23 AM.

  24. #24
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    Now I'm certainly not condoning these actions if what was said is true. But, who is to say someone just got a picture and slapped an interpretation on it.

    Who is to say that the truth in this picture is perhaps some idiot civilians thought they would have a little fun and be "firefighters" and spray a little water from an unmanned hose line?

    Who is to say that perhaps a little horseplay is going on in a training house burn that either has not been ignited yet or has been completely extinguished.

    Granted there are safety concerns with either of these situations or an endless amount of other hypothetical situations. I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the redneck firefighter wagon. Like others have said there are no flame or smoke conditions existing, look closely enough and the screen on the window is still intact.

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    I actually thinks it's great that these guys know their limitations. There are departments that go interior that have no business doing so (either lack of training or lack oF PPE).

    The article stated that there were four adults and four children present when the fire started. They all managed to escape. For those of you that think this level of service is appropriate, ask yourself...would that level of service be reasonable if the four children were trapped?
    Last edited by swarmy; 08-13-2007 at 01:16 PM.
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