1. #1
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    Default Fatal Mvc - Sooke Bc

    I know (or knew) some of the guys at Sooke VFD, so I know they aren't feeling too good about this one. However, it being a drug/alcohol related event....??

    Grieving dad hopes son's death is a lesson to other teens
    Friends mourn popular 17-year-olds killed in car crash; speed, alcohol likely factors in accident

    Matthew Gauk, Times Colonist Published: Monday, August 13, 2007

    The parents of Logan Hall, who died in a vehicle crash on Sooke Road early Saturday morning, hope that their son's death will serve as a grim lesson for the throngs of teens who made their way down to the crash site over the weekend.

    "Teenagers will do what they want to do; they feel like they're indestructible," said Kevin Hall, Logan's father. "But an incident like this will bring them down to earth, so to speak. So they'll think, 'Maybe we're not indestructible.' "

    Logan Hall and Scott McDonald, both 17, were killed when McDonald's truck failed to make a turn and crashed into a utility pole near the intersection of Sooke and Kaltasin roads. Police found cans of beer and drug paraphernalia in the truck and believe speed and alcohol were factors in the accident.

    The two teens, who had been friends since Grade 7, would have been in Grade 12 this fall at Belmont Secondary School.

    On Sunday, Kevin Hall said he was overwhelmed by the appearance of what he estimated to be 150 teenagers over the course of the weekend at the crash site, where a memorial of photos, flowers, notes, baseball caps and hockey sticks has grown.

    "To be honest with you, I knew [Logan] had a lot of MSN friends on the computer, but I never knew he really had this many friends at school," said Hall, who added that he felt good his son had such an impact on people.

    "He was a great kid," said Karycia Mitchell, a teacher at Belmont Secondary who had Logan in her math class the year before last. "You could have asked any kid in school, 'Do you know Logan Hall?' And they'd go, 'Oh yeah, I know Logan.' He had a really outgoing personality. He was quite a colourful character.

    "This is going to have a big impact on that grad class for this coming year. I think it might be one of those situations that the good that can come out of it is it'll make people stop and think before they make any bad decisions," Mitchell added.

    By Sunday night, about 300 people had joined a group called "RIP Logan Hall and Scott McDonald" on the popular social networking site Facebook. There, many of the teens' friends, perhaps fulfilling Hall's hope about his son's legacy, commented on the dangers of drinking and driving and how they hoped others would learn from the deaths.

    According to friends, Logan and Scott had been at a house party celebrating a friend's birthday on Friday night. Cheryl Hall, Logan's mother, said he knew better than to drink and drive. Both teens called their parents the night before the crash and said they were staying over at a friend's house. However, for some reason, the boys appear to have decided to drive home. The truck crashed at 5:45 a.m., just 60 metres from Logan's home.

    On Saturday, RCMP said the vehicle was found to have two "prohibited weapons" in it; on Sunday they clarified that the weapons were brass knuckles and a restricted-style knife that flicks out.

    The Halls and McDonalds are planning a joint memorial service for their sons. A date has not yet been set.

    With files from CanWest News Service Times Colonist 2007


    However, this park would just SUCK for the family. Not what I would like to remember of my son.
    The truck crashed at 5:45 a.m., just 60 metres from Logan's home.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

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    Terrible news that could have been easily avoided.


    I know a guy on that dept as well, hopefully they are all making out ok.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    I've heard that most fatal MVAs occur within 5 miles of your home.

    You know what, the EMTs/paramedics/FFs/Police who respond, one of those groups should be responsible for taking pics. And any underage, well, even of-age, persons driving DUI should be shown them. Of course have the faces blurred out, if they had a face left to blur. These people pulling DUIs need to know that yeah, party's over when the lights go out. But when Those Lights go out, there ain't no flipping them back on.

    Very sorry to hear about this. Perhaps their deaths could end up saving a life. If you could only get kids to listen

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    Sapphyre, just before I posted out here to the DC area, I lived in Victoria, which is about 20 miles east of Sooke. The Victoria and Saanich School Boards got together and drew up a program very similar to the baseline of what you suggest.

    They brought in professional speakers to make presentation on the dangers of teenage drivers and driving while under the influence. The speakers were made up mostly of those who had either been the driver, passenger while impared or were struck by drunk drivers. They took the presentation to Claremont High School and Mount Douglas High School. The parents were invited to sit in. Those were the only two presentations made, because the parents complained that it was too graphic for the sensativities of their teenage children. Actually I posted that news article in here somewhere - about 2 years ago.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

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    Quote Originally Posted by MalahatTwo7 View Post
    They brought in professional speakers to make presentation on the dangers of teenage drivers and driving while under the influence. The speakers were made up mostly of those who had either been the driver, passenger while impared or were struck by drunk drivers. They took the presentation to Claremont High School and Mount Douglas High School. The parents were invited to sit in. Those were the only two presentations made, because the parents complained that it was too graphic for the sensativities of their teenage children. Actually I posted that news article in here somewhere - about 2 years ago.
    I find it interesting that parents would feel those presentations and photos (I'm guessing there were photos) would be too graphic considering the movies marketed towards teens show more blood and guts in the first minute of the film than you can see in most crashes. Teens go to see these movies and parents don't seem to bat an eye. Unfortunately no one wants to face realities.

    I can relate a similar experience. We set up a mock crash response with our EMS, sheriff's dept. and the two local fire depts at the local high school a couple years ago. Its something we do every four years or so. But anyway, we had victims involved in crash involving ETOH. After the crash scenario we had a big presentation in the auditorium for the whole school and then classroom sessions where EMT's, cops and FF's talked to the kids in a Q&A format.

    For a few of the kids it seemed to sink in....others just rolled their eyes and you could tell they were thinking..."never gonna happen to me" Also had some complaints because parents thought we were being too harsh and graphic and scary.

    So, I guess the best we can do is keep sending the message and hope parents and kids get the point and change their attitudes towards drunk driving. Even it saves a couple from making the ultimate mistake its worth the effort.
    Last edited by mvfd27; 08-14-2007 at 09:27 AM.

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    Funny thought here. My ex-wife and I had disagreements as any couple would, but she somes from an army/LEO family (her Dad was an MP and then OPP Inspector, brother was also army). When we discussed (before the separation) our boys and what we might have them learn, this was something that we both agreed upon. My boys are 7 and 9 now and while I don't have a lot of influence in their upbrining any more, but I know that she would support me (and is likely already doing this to some extent) in talking with them and doing so in a candid and honest manner. Maybe not too much on the pictures yet, but no doubt in my mind that will come.

    Its my contention that parents need to be a lot more proactive in this, and maybe a few other things too, but this is a very strong point that needs to be made. Gently with some, I'll grant, but still needs doing.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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    Thumbs up

    That's great that you guys have decided it is important enough to pass this message to your kids. Sounds like both of you come from backgrounds that stress common sense and passing it along. But the problem with most people is that common is not all that common anymore and feelings come before anything else, even learning life's important lessons. This idea can make an entirely new thread and probably has....but ultimately, kids need to learn the dangers of drinking and driving and its not a pretty subject and can't be taught without some level of offense and scare....ultimately, if you're offended/scared by the carnage created by a drunk driver it should help the message sink in.....don't become one yourself.

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    Other friends dropped off before deadly Sooke crash

    Investigation continues into early-morning accident that killed two young men
    Matthew Gauk, with files from Rob Shaw, Times Colonist
    Published: Tuesday, August 14, 2007

    Scott McDonald had driven three friends to their homes the early morning of Aug. 11 after a house party near Happy Valley Road.

    It was on his way to dropping off a fourth that his vehicle left the road and collided with a utility pole, killing himself and fellow Belmont Secondary student Logan Hall at 5:45 a.m.

    That's according to Bob Gallagher, who knew both boys from school and had been friends with McDonald since Grade 4 at Metchosin Elementary.

    Gallagher said that while he wasn't at the party that night, he's since learned that over the course of the night, McDonald had given rides home to friends Shayne Purdy, Max Parfitt and Drew Bosma, and that Hall was simply the last to get dropped off.

    "A bunch of people [at the party] actually tried to talk him out of leaving, they started to say 'no,'" said Gallagher, 17. "I don't know if that's because he was messed up or if they just wanted him to stay and party, but that's probably the case anyway, that he just wanted to drive Logan home."

    Sooke RCMP found what they believe to be marijuana, cocaine and open liquor in the wrecked vehicle, as well as a large quantity of cash, a pair of brass knuckles and a knife. They suspect speed and intoxication to be factors in the crash.

    McDonald was supposed to drive Hall to his house on Kaltasin Road off Sooke Road, only about 60 metres from where the boys died, and then return to stay at the home of Bosma.

    "Scott stayed here a couple of nights a week and Drew would stay with their family ... because of working full-time together, they were in each other's company a lot," said Drew's stepmother, Sandra Bosma. "It's going to be a big hole for Drew in his life."

    Parfitt's family declined to comment and Purdy's was unavailable.

    Friends of McDonald and Hall have said the group was at a birthday party at the home of Dillon Guzauskas, another Belmont student. Guzauskas's father Charles refused requests for an interview.

    Sooke RCMP are still interviewing friends to try to get a complete timeline of what Hall and McDonald were doing that night, said Staff Sgt. Roger Plamondon. One of the things police will look at is whether the two teens were directly on their way home from the party, or if they had been somewhere else, he said.

    "We definitely need to look at where they were coming from," he said.

    However, police won't look at charging the owners of the house where the party was held, he said. The chance of there being any criminal liability in such a case is remote, said Robert Mulligan, a Victoria criminal defence lawyer.

    Hosts of private social parties are generally not responsible for injuries caused when an intoxicated guest leaves the party and is involved in an accident, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled last May.

    Gallagher had intended to go to the party that night with his girlfriend but didn't because he couldn't find a ride.

    "But if I was there and I knew he was about to leave, I would have done something about it."
    Rick, they are still aggressively pushing CONVERSATIONS in the spring, especially leading up to Grad time.

    http://www.saanichpolice.ca/pdfs/Saa...ersations3.pdf
    September 11th - Never Forget

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    KKUUL news there. I am glad they are trying to keep it going.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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    MalahatTwo7 - I am sure those were, quite literally, sobering moments for the kids that saw them. The youth of our nation(s) need to realize that death does not discriminate. And when they see pics of kids their age with extensive trauma, it'll get their attention. I know when I was in DARE (drug abuse resistance education) class in elementary school, the officer teaching it told us how he - to this day - still wakes up from nightmares from some of the stuff he's seen. Like the time he pulled a kid out of a car after a drug and/or alcohol related accident. Well he went to get the kid and grabbed a handful of brains instead

    mvfd27 - What you said about the parents, you're exactly right. They'll watch stuff worse than a MVA, and watch it for hours at a time. And nope, they don't like reality. I don't have kids, but I'd FAR rather y'all show "my kids" pics, than to pick their lifeless bodies (or parts of them) off the street and out of the car.

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    We had a call very much like this, it took us an hour to extricate the passenger, and the driver was removed after the initial investigation was complete (he died before we arrived and a coroner was called in to call it). They were speeding (very high speeds by the looks of things) and although there was no alcohol involved, they were known to be involved with drugs. it's really too bad and of course they were not the first kids to think nothing would happen to them. I still remember the car, the way it looked, the seemingly tiny little pocket that was left for the two occupants of the car, surprised to hear there were two; even more surprised to hear the voice of one of them. It sucks to be at calls like this, but I remind myself that at least we were able to get one of them out. It's too late to feel sorry for the kid that died, but not to have sorrow for his buddy and family. The ones I really feel sorry/sorrow for are the ones who say, "I'll never drink again." or "I won't drive like that, in his honour", etc; only to be in the same predicament the following month (or the potential of this predicament).

    I would love to think others will learn from it and maybe some will, but the cynic in me says they will always remember the dead, but not always the danger.

    I think those presentations/pictures are likely not graphic enough. I think parents who believe these presentations are too graphic have their head as far up their butts as their children. Kids aren't scared by enough these days if you ask me. I didn't even hesitate to tell my daughter about the extrication we did, I left out some details because so far she is a smart girl, but little reminders of what can happen can never be wrong.

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    Higby, very good points couldn't agree more....I don't have kids yet, but from my experiences on EMS and fire and short stint as a cop....(I don't have kids yet, but when I do) you better believe they are going to get an earful about safe driving. I realize that I may not have always used the best judgement regarding speed, but have never driven drunk. I think kids need to learn some things on their own, but, I'd rather have them learn these lessons from me and what I have responded to than have them find out for themselves.

    If what I tell them scares them and makes them sick....then I've hopefully done my job and the message is received.
    Last edited by mvfd27; 08-15-2007 at 10:06 AM.

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    Students get drunk-driving education, schools say

    Matthew Gauk, Times Colonist Published: Wednesday, August 15, 2007

    High school students in the Sooke school district get plenty of education on the dangers of drinking and driving, according to two past parent advisory council presidents.

    Stephanie Longstaff, who was president of the Sooke Parents Education Advisory Council last year, said that parents think the deaths of two 17-year-old Belmont Secondary students on the weekend is "hard to believe."

    "It's just sad. I don't think anybody is pointing any fingers or anything. It's just kind of kids will be kids and no matter how much we try and show them, they make mistakes," said Longstaff.

    The two teens, Scott McDonald and Logan Hall, were killed Saturday when Scott's truck slammed into a utility pole on Sooke Road. Sooke RCMP have said that speed and alcohol are believed to be contributing factors in the crash.

    Sooke schools participate in the Saanich Police Department's Conversations program, where police, emergency workers and families of victims tell their stories about drinking and driving.

    "So the schools are doing all they can do," said Longstaff, who has children who went to school with Scott and Logan. "Unfortunately, they can't stop them from being teenagers."

    Marilyn Roebuck, who was co-president of the Belmont Secondary Parent Advisory Council last year, said that the school tries to raise awareness of the dangers of drinking and driving at all age levels.

    But before teens get drunk and step foot in their cars, they need a place to drink. That's a bone of contention every year for parent advisory council members as prom preparations get underway. Some parents opt for "safe," supervised parties, and others, like most of the parents at council meetings, believe in zero tolerance, Roebuck said.

    Wendy McDonald, Scott's aunt, is speaking for his family. She said Scott was a "great example of a teenager" and that both teenagers were just victims of a bad judgment call. The two were best friends who were always there for each other, she said.

    "[The family] back east was mortified to think that there might be weapons in the car. They're thinking, of course in Toronto, of sawed-off shotguns and gangs. These guys didn't even have time to be involved in any sort of activity or anything like that," McDonald said of early police reports of "prohibited weapons" in the wrecked vehicle. Cpl. Greg Cox, RCMP Island District communications officer, later identified the weapons as a knife and a pair of brass knuckles.

    McDonald said that her nephew was a conscientious teenager who worked two jobs, always made time for friends and family, and who planned to live out the rest of his years in the woods of Metchosin, which he loved. He was totally committed to his hockey team, which his mother managed, and enjoyed helping friends out with their dirt-bikes, she said.

    "He was a great guy and you would really have liked him, if you'd only had the opportunity to meet him."

    Times Colonist (Victoria) 2007
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

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    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

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    This article brings up a couple points that I find very intersting....The discussion over "safe" supervised parties vs zero tolerance.

    Both have merits, but must be done right to be effective. Not being a parent I'm not claiming to be an expert, but this is common sense in my mind and things I've kicked around since becoming a ff/emt.

    If you are having a supervised party, parents must be certain no one who has had any amount of alcohol leaves, period. This means parents are up all night keeping aware of the comings and goings of the partiers. Also, setting a cut-off time when the last of the booze is served will allow them to set a time to safely release the kids the next morning. So safe parties are a very good idea, but there needs alot of follow through to ensure it is completely successful.

    The zero tolerance can be good too, kids will be kids and they'll test their boundaries so you must be prepared to follow through with punishment. Make sure the punishment will serve as a deterant from happening again, or better yet in the first place.

    Some of you are probably thinking if I'm not a parent why have I put this much thought into it....as a ff and emt, I have been kicking around ways to better educate the general public and I want to be prepared should (God forbid) I have my own kids. So please, let me know if I'm on track or way off base. thanks.

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