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  1. #1
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    Default Rapid Attack truck questions

    OK, rather than starting three new threads, I figured I'd through several questions in one thread and start a free-for-all.

    Here's my deal. We're working on specs for a rapid attack (brush truck with a rescue body) truck for a grant we got. We need something versatile, as we're likely to put our extrication equipment and some of the ISO Service Company equipment we need, since we don't have a rescue. We've never had anything but an old 1-ton with a skid, so I'm reaching out to you guys for some opinions on some questions we're kicking around.

    First, the chassis. Right now we're torn between the Ford 550 and the GMC 5500. Several are concerned about the reliability of the 6.4 Powerstroke after the issues with the 6.0. At the same time, the diesel mechanic we have on the department is concerned of rumors that the Duramax goes to crap after 100K miles and it's expensive to work on.

    Second is CAFS for a portable pump setup (skid unit basically). The only two systems I've found that don't run off of bottles (don't have the means to refill them, so that's out) are CET and Darley. I'm not a fan of Darley, and I'm finding they're probably way too high. The CET I'm hearing is built rather cheap. We're not sure we're even going to try the CAFS thing, but I figure it's worth looking into.

    Last, but not least, is manufacturers. We'd like to find someone close to SW Missouri, but I hate to rule out a good manufacturer due to proximity. Any recommendations of companies you've used?


  2. #2
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Sounds like this piece may be sort of in the ballpark of what you are looking for, maybe with some more compartments. This was built by Toyne, for their hometown of Breda, Iowa. Not next door to you but not too terribly far away, either. I am not sure of the specifics of the tank, pump size, etc. Toyne just built us a new 1500GPM CAFS pumper, and they were a pleasure to deal with- I dont have enough good things to say about them and NO negatives at all! Take a look at their website- www.toyne.com
    Last edited by FWDbuff; 06-06-2009 at 08:27 PM.
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  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post

    (Snipped for sanity)

    First, the chassis. Right now we're torn between the Ford 550 and the GMC 5500. Several are concerned about the reliability of the 6.4 Powerstroke after the issues with the 6.0. At the same time, the diesel mechanic we have on the department is concerned of rumors that the Duramax goes to crap after 100K miles and it's expensive to work on.
    I would look hard at the GM chassis. Are you really going to run it 100K? Boston EMS runs this chassis and seems pleased with it. Others are running it and also seem to like it. I am (as are many others) of the opinion that the new 6.4L F series package is going to be a nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Second is CAFS for a portable pump setup (skid unit basically). The only two systems I've found that don't run off of bottles (don't have the means to refill them, so that's out) are CET and Darley. I'm not a fan of Darley, and I'm finding they're probably way too high. The CET I'm hearing is built rather cheap. We're not sure we're even going to try the CAFS thing, but I figure it's worth looking into.
    I'm providing the links for research purposes only. I do not know about enough of these folks to have a worthwhile opinion.

    http://www.foamtech-cafs.com/products-home.html

    http://www.snuffer.com/

    http://www.fireveil.com/products/supression.html

    That's a start, anyway...
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  4. #4
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    Waterous lists several choices - http://www.waterousco.com/CAFSystems/index.html


    Slide-In/Portable Units
    70-35-GP 35 CFM (0.9m3/min) 70 GPM (265 L/min) Portable
    80-40-E 40 CFM (1.1m3/min) 80 GPM (303 L/min) Portable
    90-45-GS 45 CFM (1.27m3/min) 60 GPM (227 L/min) Portable
    100-50-DS 40 CFM (1.13m3/min) to 50 CFM (1.4m3/min) 80 GPM (300 L/min) Slide-in
    160-80-DS 80 CFM (2.3m3/min) 160 GPM (600 L/min) Slide-in
    200-100-DS 100 CFM (2.83m3/min) 200 GPM (350 L/min) Slide-in
    250-120-DSC 120 CFM (3.4m3/min) 240 GPM (909 L/min) Slide-in

    You know my std. source of equipment, FEPP - USAF surplus has regular supply of portable/wheeled high pressure compressors (electric or diesel) that would be very suitable for refilling tanks for a cold cafs system. No requirement for breathing quality air. Sevearal AF bases in the Mo/Il/Ar area from which to draw.
    Last edited by neiowa; 08-16-2007 at 10:35 AM.

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    I appreciate the info, NEIOWA. I must have overlooked all that when I was playing on their site. I did take notice of the Silver series they have. Looks like a poor man's CAFS and might actually fit in our budget. As I do some pricing, I'm finding these systems are a bit out of our range.

    One of these days I'm going to make a trip to Iowa and make you sit down with me and chat about this FEPP stuff, assuming you'd let me. I'd even buy dinner and an adult beverage or two. Maybe three or so if we talk long enough.

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    This may or may not be of interest, but the Fleetowner newsletter about 2 weeks ago, there was an article that GM may sell their medium truck division to International.

    Also, I understand that beginning this year, you can purchase a Dodge in a 1 ton cab/chassis configuration only. That opens the door to a Cummins powerplant.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post
    This may or may not be of interest, but the Fleetowner newsletter about 2 weeks ago, there was an article that GM may sell their medium truck division to International.

    Also, I understand that beginning this year, you can purchase a Dodge in a 1 ton cab/chassis configuration only. That opens the door to a Cummins powerplant.
    I hadn't heard that about the GM/International deal.

    On a side note with the Dodges, they are going to offer a 4500 and 5500 chassis option this year. One mfg. I talked to has two on order, one for a demo and the other he was trying to sell me (I'm sure that comes as a shock!).

    I found out a little more on our mechanics concerns today. He's under the impression the Duramax and Cummins are getting expensive to work on. I'm hoping this isn't an issue, but we're coming across others anyway

    Anyone been around a rig like this on a GM chassis. I had a guy point out the height today. Being "vertically challenged" myself, it made me think about how high a body on a GM chassis would really be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Sounds like this piece may be sort of in the ballpark of what you are looking for, maybe with some more compartments. This was built by Toyne, for their hometown of Breda, Iowa. Not next door to you but not too terribly far away, either. I am not sure of the specifics of the tank, pump size, etc. Toyne just built us a new 1500GPM CAFS pumper, and they were a pleasure to deal with- I dont have enough good things to say about them and NO negatives at all! Take a look at their website- www.toyne.com
    I appreciate you posting that, FWD. I had talked with Toyne early on in our process and had them shoot me a price on one of their "recent deliveries." It was WAY out of our price range. When I did some more looking today, I noticed it had a Darley Kodiak CAFS system on it. What I'm getting on just the small Darley/Odin CAFS ($30K+), no wonder it was out of my range!

    As a result, I'm going to give them another call and try this thing again. We're starting to narrow some things down (finally), and we've got a lot more specific set of initial specs.

  9. #9
    Forum Member bjlffire's Avatar
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    Catch:

    I do not know how much you were awarded, but international make arealy good 4x4 cab chassis.

    I would also contact some one from the links below.
    You may be able to save some $$ buy purchasing through the MODOT
    purchase agreement, we were able to purchase a 7400 4door chassis for a new pumper for what the builders were going to sell us a smaller 2door.


    http://www.oa.mo.gov/purch/coop.html
    http://campus.umr.edu/mltrc/officials/index.html

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    I hadn't heard that about the GM/International deal.I found out a little more on our mechanics concerns today. He's under the impression the Duramax and Cummins are getting expensive to work on. I'm hoping this isn't an issue, but we're coming across others anyway

    Not sure what this means I'd req some more detailed info. ALL diesels got more expense (obviously) when the envirowackos req the 07 emissions equipment. We're looking at $7-10k additional for a new pumper tanker that might drive 500mi/yr. Thats a good use of tax $. Likely going to get even worse when the 2010 emissions req hit.

    Ford has it's own problems with IH, big fight over warranty cost sharing between IH and Ford over problems with IH 6.0 engines. IH refuses to pay the $ Ford thinks they have coming and withheld from their payments what they thought they should be getting so IH stopped shipping engines and both sides filed suit (of course). Ford also ****ed that IH raised prices on the 6.4. Last I read still no engines being shipped. Ford is reportedly working on their own diesel for 2010 (as I recall).

    Sounds like the GMC sale to IH is near a done deal. The things are just ugly (and yes tall) IMHO.

    Our wildland/quick resp is an IH 4x4 (AF surplus dump truck chassis). Would not even consider going smaller. Only real forestry size wildland in the area and is GREAT compared to all the pickups. Lots of room, large water tank, and well under GVWR. Just picked up identical chassis in Springfield Il. (w/6400mi) which we are converting to LDH hosewagon.

    You might be interested in a subscription (free) to "LIGHT & MEDIUM TRUCK is the only monthly magazine dedicated to Class 2-7 commercial trucks. Every issue is a powerful information tool to help you best run, maintain and manage your light and medium duty truck fleet." Good mag, lot of good info and FREE. Can signup on line for gov't/business sub go to:

    http://www.ttnews.com/subscribe/sublight2.asp
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Not sure what this means I'd req some more detailed info. ALL diesels got more expense (obviously) when the envirowackos req the 07 emissions equipment. We're looking at $7-10k additional for a new pumper tanker that might drive 500mi/yr. Thats a good use of tax $. Likely going to get even worse when the 2010 emissions req hit.
    OK, here's his example. Injectors on a Duramax run $4,800/set and the Cummins is similar. Head parts are a similar situation. He noted the worse thing on injectors and many of the other components is the sitting that fire trucks to a lot of (especially a little department like ours). I'm not overly concerned, myself, just addressing some of their issues.

    I agree with you on this emissions crap. We're talking about trying to find an '06 or '07 with the old emissions to save some $$$. Maybe even a slightly used model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    OK, here's his example. Injectors on a Duramax run $4,800/set and the Cummins is similar. Head parts are a similar situation. He noted the worse thing on injectors and many of the other components is the sitting that fire trucks to a lot of (especially a little department like ours). I'm not overly concerned, myself, just addressing some of their issues.

    I agree with you on this emissions crap. We're talking about trying to find an '06 or '07 with the old emissions to save some $$$. Maybe even a slightly used model.

    Sounds like he wants you to but a gasser. Diesel parts are all expensive regardless of the brand. And that sounds like full list, we go to an independent show that has lower shop rate. Shop and can also get gov't pricing on parts. When was the last time you needed to buy injectors or a head? Or how would you predict/plan that you'll need such. Might have a blowout and need a new tire (had that recently for a few hundred). Last pumper repair we had was for neutral safety switch wire that broke/only had one strand remaining. Huh?? Predict that? Buy a Harley or helicopter then you KNOW you're going to be buying overpriced parts. I'm not concerned about IH vs Freightliner, Cummin vs CAT vs ____ myself. Not predictible.

    I'm thinking chassis myself on our pumper/tanker in fact just sent Brian (BC49er) an email on the idea (what is DHS position). On new chassis the gov't discount (IH at 40% off) I'm seeing on a new 2008 optioned exactly the way we want gives a better price than what I'm seeing (asking anyhow) on leftover new 2006 chassis set up as a dump/tanker/etc. For an older chassis might work out better (say 5-10yr old low miles). Still looking at that. For a Cl5/6 might be easier.

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