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  1. #41
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    I seem to recall a similar situation happening a few yrs ago in California.... one of the tribes in the Sierra...the Picayune, the Chukchansi, or the Mono tribe, I forget which, suddenly decided to "out" certain members who'd been in for 10, 20, 40 or more years. All of a sudden, they weren't "good enough" to be part of the tribe, and were unilaterally disenrolled by a vote of the Tribal Council...interestingly enough, this came about the same time the tribe's casino underwent major expansion and a "boom period".
    Coincidences that make you go "HMMMM"???? Absolutely.

    Another point arises from another tribal casino in CA, where a Tribal Police Officer (a caucasian) was laid off from his job after suffering a LOD injury, and refused medical care and disability benefits by the tribe. He turned around and sued the tribe for restitution, but they claimed "sovereign immunity" because they were a "separate Nation" and not subject to the jurisdiction of the US Court System... I believe the end result was that they settled for a pittance of what would've been coming had they been sued successfully, and the whole incident was pretty well swept under the rug.

    The verdict, in my mind? Casinos and the money they bring to the tribes corrupt the members with greed and self-importance. Their actions bring discredt upon their people and the Native populace as a whole, and dishonor and disgrace the memories of those who came before them. Used to be, the Natives were peoples of the land, now many are people of the flashing lights, ringing bells, and fistfuls of c-notes. It's an absolute shame.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA


  2. #42
    Forum Member SapphyreBlues's Avatar
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    You know what's sad about that? Because while some are simply rolling in the money, there are some tribes whose kids go to schools that aren't up to code. In the winter, there isn't adequate heating. I saw that on the news some years back. Was it the Lakota, Dakota? Or are they the same? Anyways i remember Bill Gates and Bill Clinton visiting a tribe out there and giving them computers Well woo. Meanwhile I'm sure those kids needed food and clothes more. So yeah, I can certainly understand your anger at that. I'm not happy about it either.

    Is there any way for them to contact the BIA to get help? Or is there no help to be given?

    By the way...Chaticks-si-Chaticks? Mind if I ask what that means?

  3. #43
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    Sapphyre: They're the Lakota, not Dakota. You might also know them as "Sioux".

    Chaticks si chaticks... that one I don't know. I don't speak Pawnee... I used to know a smidge when I was a kid, but that has fallen by the wayside years ago. Sadly, this seems to be an increasing trend...Natives unable to speak or learn their own tribal language, especially those who don't live on or near their tribe's res.
    Obviously since I'm 3/4 of the country away from the Pawnee res, I fall into that category.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  4. #44
    Forum Member SapphyreBlues's Avatar
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    I knew the Sioux was the same as one of them, but couldn't remember. But seeing as how the Dakota don't exist (other than states).... You'll have to excuse me, it's just been one of those days all month

    Ok, now this is gonna sound bad. But quite frankly I don't care. If there can be a black history month, why can't Indians have one as well? I mean, the Native American culture is slipping away. It needs to be preserved. And you can only do that by educating people. But who's teaching it? What little we are taught is biased, too. So much of the time, Natives were made out to be horrible people. Take the Dec. of Indep. for example. Thomas Jefferson said "all men were created equal." Yet he had slaves. And not only that, farther down he brought complaints against King George for not protecting the colonies from the "ruthless savages". Um, excuse me, but if you invade my back yard, give my family small pox, and do God only knows what else, yeah I'd be a bit miffed too Really, that's all you hear. The fighting between colonists and natives. The only time I ever did learn anything good about the Indians was in 7th grade TN History class. We learned about the tribes around here.

    Seriously though...is there any way to contact the BIA/Dept. of the Int. and see about getting a month set aside? Personally, I think that would be great. And truth be told, if they wouldn't do it for y'all, then they shouldn't let black people do it either. Fair is only fair, is it not? AND before someone thinks and says it...NO, I am not a racist.

    On a mostly unrelated note, I went through the Qualla Cherokee Reservation today. Nice place. They've had a revival of sorts in the Eastern Band, and they are trying to get people more involved with their native roots. They have an outdoor theater telling the stories of their people. They also have a pretty big museum devoted to Cherokee culture.

    As for speaking the language, I'd love to be able to learn Cherokee. Or any for that matter. That would be great. Ah-mah agua dooley. Of course that isn't how it's written in Cherokee, but that's how it's pronounced. If I happened to get seriously lost, I can't ask where I'm at, but I can ask for some water. And ask for it repeatedly because that's all I know how to say

  5. #45
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    Seriously though...is there any way to contact the BIA/Dept. of the Int. and see about getting a month set aside? Personally, I think that would be great. And truth be told, if they wouldn't do it for y'all, then they shouldn't let black people do it either. Fair is only fair, is it not? AND before someone thinks and says it...NO, I am not a racist.
    I don't think it's the BIA's say-so, honestly. If I recall correctly, it takes a Resolution of Congress or a special Presidential Declaration to "officially" effect such a thing. But then again, we have National Aviation Day (Aug 19), and National Mustard Day (Aug 4)...so I think if aviation and mustard (MUSTARD?!) can have a "National Day", National Native History Month wouldn't be such a far stretch.

    Of course, since most don't even know about or pay attention to the National XX Day/Week/Month thing, getting people to actually care would be a "good luck" proposition. Hell, I don't recall seeing much effort even put into Black History Month around here anymore. *shrug*

    I mean, the Native American culture is slipping away. It needs to be preserved. And you can only do that by educating people. But who's teaching it?
    Well, that should begin with the Tribes...the Elders and parents, teaching the children. Seems like the problem is that there're few left who actually know much about Tribal history (other than what's written in the few books one can find on particular tribes), and again, like I said--a lot of places the languages are quickly fading because there's simply so few left to speak them, and the emphasis is on English (as it should be)...but without a parallel education track in their Tribal language, well, it dies.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  6. #46
    Forum Member SapphyreBlues's Avatar
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    Well I would like to think that the Natives rate higher than mustard.

    But really, in light of how badly the history of the tribes is just passing away, something should be done. I know that the elders passed on traditions, histories, etc., orally. And if what they say isn't documented, by someone, whether of the tribe or not - then it will be lost. Yeah, I agree, it should begin within the tribe. But since it's not happening, someone needs to.

    How many of the elders are left that actually knew what it meant to be "people of the land", instead of what some are becoming? I'm sure the number is few. And it's really sad. I'm pretty sure the elders have forgotten more than the younger of the tribes will ever know. And without it being recorded, it's now lost to all future generations.

    Take herbal medicines for example. They were curing people with those for hundreds of years before people knew they existed. What did they use? I mean, who knows. Used in certain combinations, it's hard telling what it could cure. In the day we're living in, diseases are becoming very complex, and so is the synthetic medicine. And complex meds = horrid side effects. So if something natural could be used, that would be great. Have you seen the commercials lately? There is an arthritis pill that can give you cancer, or TB. A restless leg syndrome medication can give you addictions - gambling, sexual, etc. That's right. They said report it to your doctor right away if you experience gambling, sexual or other uncontrollable compulsions

    As for studying black history month...they might not do it where you're at, but they almost have to do it here. I have no problem with it. But I didn't like the reverse discrimination that - unfortunately - came along with it. Of course I'm only speaking about my area.

    *edited to add...*

    I don't know how the Pawnee do it, but on the Western Band Cherokee site (cherokee.org), they offer online language lessons. And often the classes are filled. Hopefully that's a good sign.
    Last edited by SapphyreBlues; 08-25-2007 at 10:02 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SapphyreBlues View Post
    I knew the Sioux was the same as one of them, but couldn't remember. But seeing as how the Dakota don't exist (other than states).... You'll have to excuse me, it's just been one of those days all month
    Actually, there are Dakota Souix, as well.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Actually, there are Dakota Souix, as well.
    The Dakota were a band that comprised part of the "Great Sioux Nation"...the other two bands being Lakota and Nakota (see a theme?). However, just as the Pawnee Nation is comprised of 4 bands: the Skidi, Chaui, Pitahawirata, and Kitkehahki, they're all still....Pawnee.
    I was taught as a child that "Sioux" means "enemy", and "Lakota" translates to "friend", thus it was more appropriate to address someone of that tribe as "Lakota". *shrug*
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  9. #49
    Forum Member SapphyreBlues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the1141man View Post
    The Dakota were a band that comprised part of the "Great Sioux Nation"...the other two bands being Lakota and Nakota (see a theme?). However, just as the Pawnee Nation is comprised of 4 bands: the Skidi, Chaui, Pitahawirata, and Kitkehahki, they're all still....Pawnee.
    I was taught as a child that "Sioux" means "enemy", and "Lakota" translates to "friend", thus it was more appropriate to address someone of that tribe as "Lakota". *shrug*
    The Pawnee Nation is actually 4 different tribes then? So it's like the Iroquois who are made up of Seneca, Onondaga, Oneida, Cayuga and Mohawks?

    Did the Pawnee not like the Sioux nation, and got along with just the Lakota band that was in it? Or was that just translations of the names?

  10. #50
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    Sapph: Not 4 tribes per se... a "band" is basically from what's been explained to me, like a city-state within the larger country. If that makes any sense... not 4 separate tribes...but like a country with 4 states. At least that's how it was explained to me. As for how the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota were, I don't know how their system worked.
    I also don't really know what the situation was as far as the Pawnee relationship (if any) with the Sioux Nation... I know that the Pawnee typically stuck to the Nebraska/Oklahoma area and didn't venture much farther north of there, so the likelihood that they would've met with the Sioux wasn't very great, much less on a regular basis. *shrug*

    ETA: As for the names, they're just direct translations, from what I understand. In their tongue, "Lakota" means "friend", "Sioux" is "enemy". Again, this's all based off of what I was told as a kid/teen, and I never really had much contact with Pawnee members back in those times. My family had friendships with members of the Oto and Ute tribes, and a few Blackfeet, but that was about it as far as who I remember having a lot of contact with in the Native "scene", as it were.
    Last edited by the1141man; 08-26-2007 at 01:15 AM.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  11. #51
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    I saw this in a local paper tonight..

    Tribal chief charged in immigration scam

    WICHITA, Kan. (AP) — The leader of an unrecognized American Indian tribe was charged Friday in an alleged scheme to sell memberships to immigrants by falsely claiming they could obtain U.S. citizenship papers with them.


    Malcolm L. Webber, also known as Grand Chief Thunderbird IV, was charged with one count of attempting to defraud the federal government, one count of harboring illegal immigrants and one count of possession of false identification documents with intent to defraud the United States.

    “Reports are coming in from Social Security offices, driver’s license bureaus and law enforcement agencies in Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Missouri, Texas, Michigan, California and other states that foreign nationals are showing up with documents purchased from Mr. Webber,” U.S. Attorney Eric Melgren said in a news release.

    The immigrants are offering the documents as proof of citizenship when seeking Social Security cards, driver’s licenses and other forms of identification, he said.

    More than 300 sets of documents from the Kaweah Indian Nation were submitted to the Social Security office in Wichita, according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office.

  12. #52
    Forum Member Tooanfrom's Avatar
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    Catch22--you are not alone on this one our Maori "brethren" are and have been pulling this stunt for ages--I do not know who first cottoned on to this little "earner"-but I do know our so called indigenous natives are in constant contact with your indigenous.

    Much wampum!
    "If you thought it was hard getting into the job--wait until you have to hang the "fire gear"up and walk away!"
    Harry Lauder 1981.Me on the left!

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