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    Default What Are Your Rules?

    What kinds of rules does your dept have for responding to scenes and what are your rules for fighting structure fires? The dept i'm joining doesn't let Jr's inside the structure unless the main fire is out and it is safe to enter for salvage purposes. Thanks
    Last edited by crazyaboutEMS17; 08-20-2007 at 10:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyaboutEMS17 View Post
    What kinds of rules does your dept have for responding to scenes and what are your rules for fighting structure fires? The dept i'm joining doesn't let Jr's inside the structure unless the main fire is out and it is safe to enter for salvage purposes. Thanks
    And that is the way it should be. As a jr you are there to do nothing more than watch and learn. You DO NOT need to go interior on a fire. You also DO NOT need to be responding to scenes. If you dept decides to allow you to respond to calls you should have to respond to the station WITH NORMAL TRAFFIC. Before you even ask, NO YOU DO NOT NEED A RED/BLUE/WHITE/GREEN/AMBER light and a siren as a junior. Technically, we are allowed to respond to the scene if we go to the station and no more trucks are leaving or they are already gone. Then and only then aer we allowed to go to the scene if cleared by the IC and transported by a FF or Advisor. That is what our rules say, but it has never happened.

    You said the dept that you are joining. You are brand new to this whole thing and you just wanna jump right in on a structure fire? You don't even know what any of the tools on the truck are. As a Jr. before you are afforded any privelges (no it is not a right) such as ride alongs, etc. you need to know every truck on your department from top to bottom. You should also go through a minimum amount of training such as HIPPA, Traffic Safety, Bloodbore Pathogens, CPR/AED for the Healthcare Provider, Advanced First Aid, and in my opinion and this is what we are going to be requiring, training equivalent to or certified to Firefighter I and First Responder.
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    Default Rules

    The way our fire dept. workes is that the jr. firefighters are allowed on certain calls. The explorers are allowed to grass fires, car accidents(depending on how bad the wreck, fatalities suspected, NO GO), any kind of structure fires after they have completed 1 yr of the safety class, to help with water and hose and mainly to clean up after or hand out water unless told different.

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    at my dept. we are allowed to ride out on trucks, (although 9 out of ten fire fighters come in there pov). My dad and uncle both give me rides. So when you are on scene you are allowed to do EVERYTHING besides going interior. you can fight fire exterior, run hose, change scba, set up drop tanks,.......

    also my dept. is very rural and i have known most of the senior fire fighters my entire life. And i am the only junior to respond to calls most of the time so they are not strict.

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    You won't be going interior until you're over 18 (in most places) and through FF1. Then you can worry about going in. Until then, learn the trucks, the tools, and everything else you can so that FF1 and all other classes you take will be that much easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    And that is the way it should be. As a jr you are there to do nothing more than watch and learn. You DO NOT need to go interior on a fire. You also DO NOT need to be responding to scenes. If you dept decides to allow you to respond to calls you should have to respond to the station WITH NORMAL TRAFFIC. Before you even ask, NO YOU DO NOT NEED A RED/BLUE/WHITE/GREEN/AMBER light and a siren as a junior. Technically, we are allowed to respond to the scene if we go to the station and no more trucks are leaving or they are already gone. Then and only then aer we allowed to go to the scene if cleared by the IC and transported by a FF or Advisor. That is what our rules say, but it has never happened.

    You said the dept that you are joining. You are brand new to this whole thing and you just wanna jump right in on a structure fire? You don't even know what any of the tools on the truck are. As a Jr. before you are afforded any privelges (no it is not a right) such as ride alongs, etc. you need to know every truck on your department from top to bottom. You should also go through a minimum amount of training such as HIPPA, Traffic Safety, Bloodbore Pathogens, CPR/AED for the Healthcare Provider, Advanced First Aid, and in my opinion and this is what we are going to be requiring, training equivalent to or certified to Firefighter I and First Responder.
    Well said brother.


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    To go interior you must be a member in good standing. You must have at least FF1. You must have a physical. And you must be certified from the physical as capable of wearing an SCBA. You need the proper PPE to include accountability tags. Next thing you need to go interior is an order from an officer on scene, as well as authorization from the accountability/safety officer.

    RFRDxplorer said
    As a jr you are there to do nothing more than watch and learn. You DO NOT need to go interior on a fire. You also DO NOT need to be responding to scenes. If you dept decides to allow you to respond to calls you should have to respond to the station WITH NORMAL TRAFFIC. Before you even ask, NO YOU DO NOT NEED A RED/BLUE/WHITE/GREEN/AMBER light and a siren as a junior.
    Couple of comments. How do you watch and learn if you aren't on the scene? As for the lights, you don't need them as a FF either. At least in NY the only light that means anything is the red light, that along with a siren allows you to disobey traffic laws so long as you use due regard. I found that the blue light was an absolute waste and caused more harm than good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    Couple of comments. How do you watch and learn if you aren't on the scene? As for the lights, you don't need them as a FF either. At least in NY the only light that means anything is the red light, that along with a siren allows you to disobey traffic laws so long as you use due regard. I found that the blue light was an absolute waste and caused more harm than good.
    Just cause legally the light means nothing, does not mean that the person with the light think it means they can drive like speed racer.
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    Couple of comments. How do you watch and learn if you aren't on the scene?


    What RFRD stated was right on. As a jr FF or Explorer you are there to OBSERVE and if lucky enough you may help out here and there with some things. You are not a firefighter so don't expect to do firefighting tasks.

    As for learning if not on the scene. One doesn't have to be on the scene to learn the job. There are depts out there that haven't seen a structure fire in years and get new members, yet they know what to do if they got a structure fire. How? It is called training. There are numerous drills that can be done at a fire hall, from SCBA confidence training, hose advance, search and rescue and so forth. If lucky enough, you may get to train at a burn tower type of facility every now and then. There are ways to train without having to be at a scene. Getting the privelage (not right) to do a ride along or get onto a scene, you get to see that training put to use in real time. Learn the basics before even thinking about doing fireground stuff.

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    Getting the privelage (not right) to do a ride along or get onto a scene, you get to see that training put to use in real time. Learn the basics before even thinking about doing fireground stuff.
    But whatever you may get to do on scene, make sure you know how to do. Try it at training a couple times to learn what to do. And DON'T do something you don't know how. Tell them you don't know how. Don't worry about them joking around or having to do it. If you can't hit the hydrant because you've never seen it done, tell them you can't. Otherwise, they're relying on you for this important task that you might not be able to handle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    And that is the way it should be. As a jr you are there to do nothing more than watch and learn. You DO NOT need to go interior on a fire. You also DO NOT need to be responding to scenes. If you dept decides to allow you to respond to calls you should have to respond to the station WITH NORMAL TRAFFIC. Before you even ask, NO YOU DO NOT NEED A RED/BLUE/WHITE/GREEN/AMBER light and a siren as a junior. Technically, we are allowed to respond to the scene if we go to the station and no more trucks are leaving or they are already gone. Then and only then aer we allowed to go to the scene if cleared by the IC and transported by a FF or Advisor. That is what our rules say, but it has never happened.

    You said the dept that you are joining. You are brand new to this whole thing and you just wanna jump right in on a structure fire? You don't even know what any of the tools on the truck are. As a Jr. before you are afforded any privelges (no it is not a right) such as ride alongs, etc. you need to know every truck on your department from top to bottom. You should also go through a minimum amount of training such as HIPPA, Traffic Safety, Bloodbore Pathogens, CPR/AED for the Healthcare Provider, Advanced First Aid, and in my opinion and this is what we are going to be requiring, training equivalent to or certified to Firefighter I and First Responder.
    Jake stated it well.
    The HIPPA, Traffic Safety, Bloodbore Pathogens, CPR/AED for the Healthcare Provider training are what we have to get in order to ride along. IMHO, Explorers/Juniors in general should need these classes to get off their probation so everyone gets in anyways. (on our post, there's a 6 month probie period in which the probies have to learn the trucks inside-out and get a couple classes before they can get officially signed off.) It's all good training to have even if you don't plan to ride along.

    If you're just joining, be focased on learning the [basic] ropes of the job first. Learn your equipment, know how it's used, know where it is (I understand tools manage to move themselves to different compartments ) so go over your trucks every time you go to the station... even if you only have time to hit one rig.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post

    Couple of comments. How do you watch and learn if you aren't on the scene? As for the lights, you don't need them as a FF either. At least in NY the only light that means anything is the red light, that along with a siren allows you to disobey traffic laws so long as you use due regard. I found that the blue light was an absolute waste and caused more harm than good.
    For some departments this might hold true, bot not for others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    As for the lights, you don't need them as a FF either. At least in NY the only light that means anything is the red light, that along with a siren allows you to disobey traffic laws so long as you use due regard.
    Show me in a New York code section where you can disobey traffic laws just becuase you are running blue lights and sirens.
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    I believe he meant red light and siren. If you're allowed to have a red light and siren in your car, and you're called to something, they pretty much give you the right to disobey the law. It's basically like you're in a cop car, as long as you don't blow stop signs or red lights, but properly sounds the siren and whatnot, you can go through.

    At least that's how I interpreted his post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by st42stephenAFT View Post
    I believe he meant red light and siren. If you're allowed to have a red light and siren in your car, and you're called to something, they pretty much give you the right to disobey the law. It's basically like you're in a cop car, as long as you don't blow stop signs or red lights, but properly sounds the siren and whatnot, you can go through.

    At least that's how I interpreted his post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Show me in a New York code section where you can disobey traffic laws just becuase you are running blue lights and sirens.
    Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    As for the lights, you don't need them as a FF either. At least in NY the only light that means anything is the red light, that along with a siren allows you to disobey traffic laws so long as you use due regard.
    I never said blue light. Funny thing is, according to NYS law blue lights are supposed to be reservec for volunteer fire people. But now, they are showing up on police cars, to include the NY State Police . Won't be long before people will believe that some chucklehead with a blue light is a cop, then watch out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    I never said blue light. Funny thing is, according to NYS law blue lights are supposed to be reservec for volunteer fire people. But now, they are showing up on police cars, to include the NY State Police . Won't be long before people will believe that some chucklehead with a blue light is a cop, then watch out.
    Thats why in MI, blue lights are specifically reserved for Police*. However, I have never understood why the State police uses a Red light instead of blue. Granted they also have red/blue LED bars mounted discretely inside. MI is also changing their state police vehicle from what i've heard, so the light change may come with the new equipment.

    *Blue/red is police, though some cars also have clear strobes.
    Red/Clear is for Fire/EMS use
    Amber is for general caution (road work, snow plows, etc).
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    Well im not a junior but i was at one time, and when i was a junior ff we werent allowed to do anything, it was considered our time to listen, shut our mouths and learn the job from our piers. one thing was allowed to do was forest fires, i could do anything at those as long as they were in our response district, we werent allowed to respond on the engine's to mutual aid towns, as for structure fires we could take part in any fire ground aid, basically we were to goffers, we were not allowed in the "hot" zone and were not allowed in the building what so ever. for ems calls could go to them but we pretty much were the note takers for the emt's unless we had our ems liscense then we could practice as long as a senior member was their and had a ems liscence. also for responding in our own vehicles we couldnt use redlights till we were 18 and we couldnt drive the department apparatus to emergencies untill we were 18. we got pagers which was sweet and gear but it wasnt structural gear. durring my time as junior FF i learned alot and now i do it for a proffession.

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