1. #1
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    Exclamation NFPA 1981/1982 2007ed. Delays to cert new SCBA

    Saw today in the September issue Fire Apparatus News,(not online as of yet) a front page article questioning the abitlity of the big 7 SCBA manufacturers to get certification for NFPA1981/1982 2007 ed. According to the article, no one is close. They also mention that the 2006 DHS awardees are still waiting for 07 complinat packs. I imagine those of us who were awarded this year are looking at filing extensions also.

    We were reduced on our SCBA grant, is it possible that DHS had the heads up that certs were not comming as fast as we all hoped and that the 5K price tag would be sufficient for SCBA that meets the previous standard?

    Anyone care to chime in on this, waiting for a call from our region DHS rep. We certainly will wait for the manufactureres to ket up to speed, will DHS still wait with us?

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    We are waiting to be awarded on our SCBA project, got 1199, 10q’s, and like you a reduction request to $5K per SCBA. I accepted the reduction but added that it would be hard to fulfill our proposed project under the 2007 standard and requested they PLEASE consider additional funding for departments with SCBA projects because of the standard change. I have spent the last week contacting different venders in the TX, OK, and LA area and requesting quotes. OUt of 11 venders only one vender still had 2002 ed. SCBA on the shelf and very few at that. (for clarification we are looking at Scott Paks) All the venders have been able to quote me the 2007 ed. prices (AP75’s), and there is a significant price increase from the 2002 ed. to the 2007 ed. One major vender told me today, after he talked to his Scott rep, that Scott would start accepting orders on the AP75’s in September. He also told me that they could still order AP50’s (2002 ed.), but that they would not be stamped with the NFPA approval. I have talked to so many different salesmen and gotten so many different answers, that I do not know who or what to believe right now.

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    Scott is the only manufacturer with the 2007 certification, the rest are talking February or beyond before they will comply.

    And AVFD is correct with the stamping, they can't put a stamp that says compliant with the current NFPA standard when they aren't since the current one has been the 2007 edition since February. That doesn't mean they can't be bought, just means they won't have a current edition sticker on them.

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    We were awarded in the first round this year for SCBA. When asked about waiting on the 2007 packs, we were told not to wait and to purchase the 2002 editions. We had a significant cost savings, but DHS would not allow us to use this savings to purchase the additional packs to go on the crew cab tanker we have also been awarded for. It did not make sense to me, but at least we are able to buy enough for the other vehicles. They are being delivered this evening. Went with MSA.

    Kelly

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    Angry This SCBA mess

    We are looking at MSA and Draeger, considering that neither will be ready until spring, will DHS allow for the extension. I wrote anticipating the 07 standards would be in place during my performance period. If I settle for the 02 stamp, I am not following the intent of my grant. Is this not the ultimate catch 22?

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    DHS is allowing the 2002 standard to be purchased, so that's why you are allowed to deviate from the original scope. Everyone expected more manufacturers to be ready, not like the requirements were a secret. But so many things became so stringent in the new standard that a lot of manufacturing processes had to be changed so that they could be met. Hence the across the board price increases. I'd insert something about changing equipment instead of increasing training and tactics, but that dead horse has no hide left from the beating.

    Most PASS devices are now throwaway because of the submersion tests. It's impossible to make one that can have the battery changed and still seal to pass the test. In 15 years I've met a ton of people that couldn't read the diagram and put the battery in the right way, so making a waterproof seal on top of that? Not gonna happen...

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    Default Interspiro 1981/2007 edition approved

    Check out the following website:

    http://www.seinet.org/CPL/nfpa1981_07.htm

    It is the testing agency that certifies scba's to NFPA 1981. Interspiro has the S6 version that was approved to the 2007 standard on Friday, August 31, 2007. The only manufacturer so far.......

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    Umm, according to that link Scott has also passed. In fact they passed a couple of months ago, making them the first. Nice to see the rest are coming around finally though.

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    WFD:

    What department are you on?

    rfd599
    www.IllinoisFireStore.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    Umm, according to that link Scott has also passed. In fact they passed a couple of months ago, making them the first. Nice to see the rest are coming around finally though.
    It looks like Scott has passed it's NxG7, but not it's AP75. The problem with the NxG packs is thier propriatery bottles. They are not even compatable with other Scott packs. I talked to our Regional Scott Rep. last week and he told me they have not gotten the AP75's approved yet and does not know when that will happen.

    I also talked with our regional DHS rep. about our grant and the problems with funding the new 2007 ed. packs. He asked me to be patient and give DHS until the end of September. He stated they are aware of the problem and may (that is may) be looking at additional funding to assist those with SCBA projects. So for now we will sit back and see what happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AVFD34 View Post
    I also talked with our regional DHS rep. about our grant and the problems with funding the new 2007 ed. packs. He asked me to be patient and give DHS until the end of September. He stated they are aware of the problem and may (that is may) be looking at additional funding to assist those with SCBA projects. So for now we will sit back and see what happens.
    This might be totally nutty, but I wonder if they've stopped 1199'ing SCBA awards until they figure this out. I've got one app I did for a neighboring station which should score well and know of another I read that seems to have a great narrative with no update. Both applications were for SCBA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY4420 View Post
    This might be totally nutty, but I wonder if they've stopped 1199'ing SCBA awards until they figure this out. I've got one app I did for a neighboring station which should score well and know of another I read that seems to have a great narrative with no update. Both applications were for SCBA.
    Sound reasoning sly!
    Kurt Bradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    Sound reasoning sly!
    Are you just complementing me or does that wink actually mean something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY4420 View Post
    Are you just complementing me or does that wink actually mean something?

    Well, as Clint Eastwood would say, " it doesn't mean we will be swappinig spit".LOL! No I think you and I are thinking along the same lines also.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Gotcha. Has anyone been 1199'd recently for an SCBA project?

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    Got awarded a few weeks ago. I'm hoping they reconsider, if not we're looking at a 15,000.00 share instead of 3,000.00! Kurt, I talked to our Scott Rep. about purchasing 2002 compliant packs, he stated that he was sure there weren't any left. Does this sound correct?

    Fish

    PS I'll be seeing you Jan. in Pittsford NY

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    Default Me thinks you might be on to something

    I had the exact same idea last week Sly, 2 awards with no scba. A couple of DJ's and 11 depts left. 7 of the 11 are either exclusive SCBA or some part of the project.

    SCBA is in the "request details pulldown menu" so I assume it would be easy enought to flag those applications until a fix is found. I just hope they don't spend all of the money in the mean time, these guys around here need some new paks!

    Did anyone in round 5 or 7 get SCBA??????????

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwfisher View Post
    Got awarded a few weeks ago. I'm hoping they reconsider, if not we're looking at a 15,000.00 share instead of 3,000.00! Kurt, I talked to our Scott Rep. about purchasing 2002 compliant packs, he stated that he was sure there weren't any left. Does this sound correct?

    Fish

    PS I'll be seeing you Jan. in Pittsford NY
    They still seem to be pushing the 2002 units here in Missouri. I can't imagine that Scott just shut down production on everything but the one compliant model.

    Not yet at least.

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    Talking SCBA and 1199's

    Got my 1199 a couple of weeks ago, first ever, primarily SCBA's, composite bottles and PPE. No 10 q's yet, wonder if they got hung up with the SCBA issue?

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    After Aug 31 no manufacturer can make 2002 compliant packs, so whatever was in inventory was it. I think most vendors are out of them. I know Scott is taking orders for AP75s, production starting soon on them. Last I heard they passed just waiting on the official stamp on paper to make it good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY4420 View Post
    This might be totally nutty, but I wonder if they've stopped 1199'ing SCBA awards until they figure this out. I've got one app I did for a neighboring station which should score well and know of another I read that seems to have a great narrative with no update. Both applications were for SCBA.
    Forgot to say, this isn't the case despite the appearance that some should have gotten updates by now. I have a pile that I'm surprised haven't been updated myself, but also got 3 more SCBA 1199As last week alone, and DHS isn't holding off on anything because the manufacturers aren't catching up with the times. With 12 months in the POP, plenty of time to either wait until the vendor of choice gets approved or buy someone else's.

    The money per pack is pretty much decided, so the normal course of action is to accept the reduced per pack amount and submit an amendment for the lesser quantity using the same amount of dough. To my knowledge they haven't denied one yet because of the mix-up we're all in. 2008 will have updating pricing.

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    Default Scba 1199?

    Shoots my theory right in the knee

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    Got my 1199A for SCBA's and composite bottles a few weeks ago, no 10q's yet.
    First Award

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    Red face

    Can anybody tell me whats going on? I just wish they would get things figured out and get more 1199 rollin. Still waiting on any news on our grant we have not heard anything. But we do know that we got past the computer and this is the first time for that so maybe this will be the first time for an afg grant!!!! ya think???

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwfisher View Post
    Got awarded a few weeks ago. I'm hoping they reconsider, if not we're looking at a 15,000.00 share instead of 3,000.00! Kurt, I talked to our Scott Rep. about purchasing 2002 compliant packs, he stated that he was sure there weren't any left. Does this sound correct?

    Fish

    PS I'll be seeing you Jan. in Pittsford NY
    Fish sounds like he is holding out on you looking to get the extra bucks fomr the 2007 packs. Call him back and tell him you have another supplier and see if he changes his tune.
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

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