1. #1
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    Question Personal Rescue Ropes

    With our Gov signing into law a requirement for all employers to supply all fire fighters with personal escape ropes. What is your dept doing? Is it just your SCBA people? All your members that might be involved in overhaul? Anybody know what section of NFPA is being used as the guideline? We have 60 members and the village wants to start out with about 15 ropes
    BE ALERT AND STAY ALIVE
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    TLVFD, NY

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    Default is this for ALL fire departments?

    I thought this was just for FDNY??

    Regards,

    Richard M. Spackmann
    Fire Commissioner
    Greenfield Fire District
    http://www.RichardSpackmann.com

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    Post NYC is exempt, as usual

    spackmann, in the new law there is a line that says that "municipalities with a population of one million or more people is exempt..." or some thing like that. Any way, it is the usual line that allows the politicians in NYC to ride rough shod over our brothers and sisters in FDNY and ignore Albany.
    In my department, we already have bail out bags attached to every SCBA. We are now planning an inspection program for all our ropes, including the long ones our FAST uses. No one goes in the structure, even for over haul, that isn't interior certified until we have established a safe atmosphere, using our meter, and a realtivly safe building. We don't need the fire investigators getting in trouble in there.
    I am not familiar enough with all the NFPA standards to know which, if any, standard this falls under.
    "Your spill is our thrill."

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    Default anyone have a link to the law online?

    Ya,

    My department has them on every SCBA as well - but that was even before all the FDNY press.

    Anyone have a copy of the law online somewhere?

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    Jason Brooks
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TLFD40 View Post
    With our Gov signing into law a requirement for all employers to supply all fire fighters with personal escape ropes. What is your dept doing? Is it just your SCBA people? All your members that might be involved in overhaul? Anybody know what section of NFPA is being used as the guideline? We have 60 members and the village wants to start out with about 15 ropes
    From what I understand all Class A FF (interior) will have to have escape ropes. The law will be enforced through the Dept Of Labor/ PESH. I won't be enforced until 60 day's after the Aug 1st.
    Fortune does not change men; it unmasks them.

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    Default Veto Or Something???????

    Rumor now has it that the law will not go through because some Senators or somebody does not like the idea about the exemption for the population of 1 million or more,,, so the rest of us have to wait until the politicians play their games AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was under the impression that if the Gov signs it it has already gone through the Assembly and Senate!
    BE ALERT AND STAY ALIVE
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    Default It already has...

    This bill was in the works for about two years. It already passed through the Senate and Assembly. I know this because I lobbied for it. Some lawmakers need to understand that if they vote against a bill that passes, so be it. Majority rules, right?

    Unfortunately, the law is fairly vague in its raw form and will need to be interpreted by PESH prior to anyone really being clear on how it is intended to be used.

    It remains to be seen if volunteer companies will need to comply. I believe everyone deserves the same level of protection/safety equipment, paid or not. However, does PESH cover volunteers? Are they considered "public employees" in the eyes of the law while performing their duties?

    As for NYC being exempt, can anyone confirm the rumor that their personal escape rope system far exceeds this new law? Just what I heard.

    Food for thought.

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    Default

    gjrogers,

    Volunteers are considered employees when it comes to laws such as this and others that PESH enforces. Just as Volunteers have to comply with the Fire Brigade Standard and two in/two out, we will have to comply with this as well.

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    Default Pesh

    Thanks for clearing that up. Makes sense.

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    Default Some info

    Here is some information on the rescue device law that may help. As it all stands right now, the DOL has to make thier ruilng before and compliance date can be enforced. below is some correspondance regarding this.

    -I have forwarded this letter to Senator Libous' office to follow up on. We are still under the belief that until the rules and regulations are written by the Department of Labor it covers all Firefighters. As more information becomes available I will pass it along

    -That’s interesting because Senator Libous’ office released a document saying it applies to all firefighters including volunteers. I believe that one because the language is the same as what is already interpreted in the the labor laws in terms of PESH/OSHA requirements which has been determined long ago to apply to all. The DOL has to still develop the “rules and regulations” on this law and that will be open to comment before adoption (according to the senator’s office). So, even though the law is in effect October 1st, I’m sure we won’t see any enforcement for a while.

    The state really needs to get their tune together and advise on this.

    -Thanks for the assembly document. I sent that and the senator’s doc to Chief Wutz at OFPC, asking for advisement. Below is his reply. While elected officials are trying to give information, I think we’re in a holding pattern, waiting for official information from DOL on the matter. Then OFPC will issue advisement.

    From OFPC:
    -Like the senators aide said The Department of Labor will be the regulatory agency.

    We are all waiting to hear form DOL


    Hope this helps..

    Saty safe!

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    Default an email from the Department of Labor

    "The proposed rule as well as the Law itself talks about providing ropes and system components "appropriate for the risk"

    The rule would require a hazard assessment to determine the level of risk in the area you provide fire protection to and then equip those who are exposed to a hazard.

    There is no intent to just require the protection for anyone who has no risk. I keep failing to understand why anyone would think we would require you to equip individuals who don't enter the building and would never be expected to need the equipment. ( pump operators, fire police, those not interior qualified) We are asking the employer to make that determination.

    If your hazard assessment show that only 1 and 2 story buildings are in the area and there are other procedures which can be used to insure the safety of fire fighters operating in the building ( ladders placed for emergency egress as a matter of SOP on each call) then you may not have to provide anything.

    The proposed rule is clear that you only provide to those who have exposure.

    Be conservative in your purchase. Generally you only need a rope and a belt if you are going to rappel with your feet against the building You need a harness if you are going to lower yourself without touching the building surface.The rope can be as long as you want. You will need a couple of carabiners and decender.

    Some interesting equipment is listed on the web at reasonable cost. You do not need the $500.00 NYC rig unless you have NYC hazards so don't let the suppliers sell you a bill of goods. You should be able to provide a pretty good rig for under $100.00 a person. All components of the system should meet the 2006 edition of 1983 and the supplier should provide you evidence that the equipment meets that standard. Everything but the rope must have a label and the receipt for the rope should state that that conforms.

    David Ruppert
    Assistant Director
    Div. of Safety and Health
    (518) 457-3518"

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    Default NYC bail out system

    Uh Dave, First of all the Petzl Exo system that FDNY uses is not 500 dollars. It lists for 350.00. Secondly training is required cause its a good thing.No matter what system guys are going to use they should be thoroughly trained on it! Don't tell guys they don't need to buy the FDNY system because they do...ya know why Dave? Cause it is by far the best, easiest system to use. It is all prerigged and ready to go. The other systems are horrible at best! Ive trained over 450 firefighters on the Petzl exo andby far the guys are much happier than any other system they looked at. For more info go to www.firegroundtech.com

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