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    Default NY Hook and Halligan Married Pair

    Does anyone know about departments carrying (NY) roof hooks with their married pair instead of axes? I've seen a some pictures on how to carry them together but nothing about how to use them. Is there any advantages using the roof hook over axe?

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    I believe that it is for roof assignments.
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    So instead of Ax + Haligan = Married Pari, Roof Hook + Haligan = Married Pair? Or am I confusing something up?

    Or are you trying to say someone is taking the Married Pair and a Roof Hook on a call?

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    Quote Originally Posted by st42stephenAFT View Post
    So instead of Ax + Haligan = Married Pari, Roof Hook + Haligan = Married Pair? Or am I confusing something up?

    Or are you trying to say someone is taking the Married Pair and a Roof Hook on a call?
    You should be taking a set of Irons to the roof anyway, but you also bring the roof hook to pop out ceiling tiles, remove natural ventilation covers, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    You should be taking a set of Irons to the roof anyway, but you also bring the roof hook to pop out ceiling tiles, remove natural ventilation covers, etc.
    What can you do with the axe that you cant do with the roof hook? (Im talking about companies that take saws to the roof, not the people who still think an axe is faster).

    Our roofman (and for top floor fires, our OVs), take a halligan and the hook with them. No axes.


    Edited to add: Im talking about flat roofs. We dont (99.9% of the time) cut PD roofs. But multiple dwellings, and any other flat roofed bldgs, the roofman takes the hook and the halligan.
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 08-22-2007 at 06:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    What can you do with the axe that you cant do with the roof hook? (Im talking about companies that take saws to the roof, not the people who still think an axe is faster).

    Our roofman (and for top floor fires, our OVs), take a halligan and the hook with them. No axes.


    Edited to add: Im talking about flat roofs. We dont (99.9% of the time) cut PD roofs. But multiple dwellings, and any other flat roofed bldgs, the roofman takes the hook and the halligan.
    Well, if we HAD a roof hook I could tell you, but the admin is afraid of change. Only pike poles, drywall hooks here. Most of our 1st due structures are PDs, so if we have balls and go to the roof, we take irons, pike pole, and saw.
    I have done the saw vs axe cut test, and it is fairly evenly timed. Of course, there were no shingles, so that may have influenced times....
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    Wink

    woah woops somehow i posted in the wrong thread.
    Last edited by charlie82; 08-22-2007 at 08:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie82 View Post
    They delivered what the promised. Very funny, Maybe my chief will let us do this, we are always looking for ways to raise money in creative ways.
    Uh, did I miss something?
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    Question

    what i learnt with my numerous chats with firefighters in the USA:

    Irons,or set of irons or married irons=flat head axe and halligan tool.


    for roof hook and halligan it is maybe ,just used and called like this by roofmen,no?
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    Roof work - saw, roof hook, and axe.

    * Personally, I prefer a pick head axe on a roof instead of a flat head.

    Irons man (interior) - haligan and flat head axe.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    What can you do with the axe that you cant do with the roof hook? (Im talking about companies that take saws to the roof, not the people who still think an axe is faster).

    Our roofman (and for top floor fires, our OVs), take a halligan and the hook with them. No axes.


    Edited to add: Im talking about flat roofs. We dont (99.9% of the time) cut PD roofs. But multiple dwellings, and any other flat roofed bldgs, the roofman takes the hook and the halligan.
    What is the halligan primarily used on the roof for and is it used that often?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Roof work - saw, roof hook, and axe.

    * Personally, I prefer a pick head axe on a roof instead of a flat head.

    Irons man (interior) - haligan and flat head axe.
    Have you cut a hole in the roof with a pick head axe? A flat head axe is much faster and efficient.

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    At the firehouse we do carry the halligan with the roof hook. The reason is simple and it seems to work for us.

    This is for general operations.

    When the 2 FF riding backwards get off the rig 1 guy grabs the hook and the halligan and the other FF grabs a flat head axe and the can.

    The reason we do this is that the can and the hook are generally carried by one FF, and they are two cumbersome tools, so we divide them.

    Also when you use the irons you generally need a second person for forcing.

    If you have a NY roof hook that is made with the metal shaft(fiberglass sucks IMO) you can do some light striking on the halligan with it. Turn the hook upside down so the head is on the floor, step on it with your foot. Slam the shaft of the pole(hehe) into the head of the halligan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKDRAFT View Post
    Have you cut a hole in the roof with a pick head axe? A flat head axe is much faster and efficient.
    Yes, I have, and had no problem. And I've beat through a roof with the back end of the axe too. Both work. A pick head gives me 2 options, I can chop through and i can also use it as a foot stop. I'll be honest, most times we use the saw.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Yes, I have, and had no problem. And I've beat through a roof with the back end of the axe too. Both work. A pick head gives me 2 options, I can chop through and i can also use it as a foot stop. I'll be honest, most times we use the saw.

    It also looks good on a parade rig where it should be.
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    We much prefer the flat head axe for poking holes in the roof. Less sticking, just chunks of wood flying. This way too all of your flat heads can be carried with the halligan (original "marriage") and you can place it for you foothold. Kinda hard to use the same axe as a foothold and to cut the hole! I suspect the halligan and hook is more of a "civil union" that the traditionalists will fight against tooth and nail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKDRAFT View Post
    Have you cut a hole in the roof with a pick head axe? A flat head axe is much faster and efficient.
    Explain why a flat head axe is faster for cutting a ole in the roof.

    It should not make a bit of difference as long as the weight of the head is the same. Assuming you are chopping and not bashing a hole in the roof. Frankly, if you are bashing a hole in the roof you would be better off with an or 10 pound sledge or maul than either axe.

    Personally, give me the vent saw, my pickhead axe, and a pike pole.

    FyredUp

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdemarse View Post
    It also looks good on a parade rig where it should be.
    Sorry, I disagree. It is another tool that offers differing uses. If you select the wrong tool it is not the tools fault, it is the operators fault.

    FyredUp

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Explain why a flat head axe is faster for cutting a ole in the roof.

    It should not make a bit of difference as long as the weight of the head is the same. Assuming you are chopping and not bashing a hole in the roof. Frankly, if you are bashing a hole in the roof you would be better off with an or 10 pound sledge or maul than either axe.

    Personally, give me the vent saw, my pickhead axe, and a pike pole.

    FyredUp
    In most cases, the flat side of the axe struck close to the rafter or support will break the roof boards faster than cutting the roof with the blade of the axe. The blade will get stuck in plywood, softwood boarding and OSB very readily unless each strike is at the perfect angle. The sledge is not as good in this case as the round holes punched are not as readily connected. We had a ton of naysayers both in house and in the local academy. A short roof drill made it very clear who the victor was! Though I would concede that with multiple layers of apshalt that absorb the impact the blade side might be required. Another reason to take the tool that has both (flat head). Though alas, I wholeheartedly agree that a saw would aways be my first choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Frankly, if you are bashing a hole in the roof you would be better off with an or 10 pound sledge or maul than either axe.

    Personally, give me the vent saw, my pickhead axe, and a pike pole.

    FyredUp
    Actually there is quite a difference between the sledge and axe. The surface area on the striking side of the flathead axe is much more efficient at getting through the roof. As RFDACM02 the sledge makes round holes. this is in the long run is wasting half of the surface area of the tool since you do not need to make that wide of a cut(break).

    With that being said what do I personally carry to the roof(PD)?

    Halligan, Hook, and a saw.

    If you turn the adz and the horn up, you have one hell of a striking tool if needed. You also have a foothold if necessary.

    I love the halligan on the roof. Great for prying those stubborn boards up. Put the horn on the rafter and the adz under the board and pry up.

    Everyone has a go-to tool. Mine is the halligan. The pickhead would be my last choice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Sorry, I disagree. It is another tool that offers differing uses. If you select the wrong tool it is not the tools fault, it is the operators fault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKDRAFT View Post
    What is the halligan primarily used on the roof for and is it used that often?
    Forcing open bulkhead doors, used to be used when the roof man dropped down to do a top floor search (or floor above search), and is used to vent top floor windows. It is used fairly often, as every MD fire we operate at, the bulkhead doors are opened to alleviate smoke conditions.
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    Also, if you're on a slanted roof, the pick part of the haligan can be jammed into the roof, and used as a foot hold too. Gives you a spot to put your foot off of a 1 foot wide roof ladder.

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    Before I went to work for a fire department that sends 26 people on the first alarm, I worked for a fire department that responded with 6 to 8 total. We had one firefighter dedicated to perform support functions...truck work, intially. Once the first due engine chauffeur was set the second due engine chauffeur would join up with the truck firefighter.

    For private dwelling, one and two family, fires the truck ff carried a 5' roof hook and a halligan. Heavy forcible entry was not normally and issue in these structures. So those two tools performed 99 percent of the normal functions: entry, horizontal ventilation, search, and overhaul. When you find yourself operating with this type of staffing one needs to be diligent in their tool selection. A single person can only carry so much.

    They use a 5' roof hook because of it's multi-function capabilities and it is a little easier to get around with but long enough to still be functional inside the nearly all of their PD's. Now I'm just referring to PD's (which is about 90 percent of their fire work) not multiple dwellings or commercial/industrial operations.

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    The flat-head is traditionally married to the Halligan to provide a "hammering" tool to help force the Halligan in those tight doorjambs and still provide a cutting tool - more bang for the buck. As far as roof operations, use whatever you need. Don't be afraid to either steal ideas from other departments or create your own. If you find you need a sledge and a pick-head, by all means, strap em together and go with it.

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