1. #1
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    Arrow E-One wins… What’s your recommendation?

    Dear friends of firehouse.com:

    After 2+ years of work our fire chief decided to buy an E-One HP 75 Cyclone II Quint.

    Cab: Cyclone II Custom Cab (10-man cab flat roof)
    Axle: Front: 18.000 lbs. + Rear: 31.000 lbs.
    Engine: Cummins® ISL 370 HP.
    Transmission: Allison EVS3500P, 5 speed.
    Pump: HALE Q-MAX of 1500 GPM
    Water Tank: 500 gal.
    Crosslay: 2 over the pump.
    Aerial 75’ Aerial Ladder – 3 sections.
    Aerial Nozzle Akron 1000 GPM - Electric
    Ground Ladders: (1) Little giant, (2) 16’ roof, (1) 10’ fold, (1) 35’ - 3 sections, (1) 24’- 2 sections.
    Generator: Wacker (2.5 KVA)
    Warning: Federal Signal Lights + Q2B

    Now we are going to have the last round of meetings with the dealer to work on some details and components.

    Do you have experience in a similar truck? Can you recommend us things we must check/change/include in this truck?

    Any recommendations or experiences are welcome!!!

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    We have almost the exact same truck. We've had it for 10 years now and it works great. The only thing we've had a problem with was the way the hose bed and the areial turn table come close to each other and now years of rubbing the tarp has a huge semi circle worn in it. That's it though. It's a good truck.

    mike

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    If you're going with the Cyclone II chassis, I would upgrade the motor and tranny to a big block and the Allison 4000. If you're trying to save money by using a smaller drivetrain, that's not the place to try and save money. A 370 HP is going to feel very sluggish in that apparatus.

    If you're set on the smaller engine and tranny, downgrade to the Typhoon chassis and save more money which could be put back into options on the truck, such as larger generator - at least 6kw.

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    Is that front axel enough? I know aluminum (in theory) is lighter but I have looked at a set of specs we had on a 75 and it had a 21500 (steel aerial).

    2 sets of jacks front and rear and increase the generator to at least a 6kw. Good luck

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    A bigger generator for sure!!

    By the way, you didn't mention how you will be pumping, vernier or pressure gov??

    Get a pressure gov. if you can affod it. FRC & Class 1 are nice.

    & Good luck, TL

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    Thumbs up E-One 75' Aerial

    The 18,000# front axle sounds kinda light for a "10 man cab" I would think 20,000# especially if you were to go with a larger engine and transmission.
    If you have the $$ I would go with an 8K hydraulic generator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSIaerialmanTIM View Post
    A bigger generator for sure!!

    By the way, you didn't mention how you will be pumping, vernier or pressure gov??

    Get a pressure gov. if you can affod it. FRC & Class 1 are nice.

    & Good luck, TL
    We are getting it with a pressure gov but a good point is that the offer is without a brand or model. I'll check that.
    Thank's!

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    Is 2 crosslays going to be enough for you? All of our quints have 3-1 3/4" and 1-2 1/2".

    Not knowing your staffing, one thing we've found beneficial is to have an control panel for the stick at the pump panel. A guy can pump the truck and work the aerial at the same time, if needed. Not something you'd particularly do in a rescue or vent situation, but on a defensive fire, it's nice to have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCLCBS20 View Post
    We are getting it with a pressure gov but a good point is that the offer is without a brand or model. I'll check that.
    Thank's!
    If I were a betting man, I'd say it'll be a Class 1 product. Not saying that's bad, but it seems to be E-One's preferred choice.

    I'll second (or third) the questioning of that front axle rating...
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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    Default More Horse Power!

    I'm no expert but we did a similar excercise a few years ago.

    I'd would recommend the following changes (in order or importance).

    1. Your a little light on HP: Must have atleast 425 or better yet make the jump to an Cummins ISM 400 for additional Torque (you might want to inquire about the new Engines THAT DO NOT REQUIRE A PARTICULATE FILTER - Big Blocks Only)!
    2. Class A Foam system to make your water last longer (more affective knock down).
    3. MIV-E Valve on your Officers 6" Intake for LDH operations.
    4. Backup Camera (this truck will allow you to get into some tight places were that extra set of eyes would be very reassuring).

    Other than that you have choosen a Nice Quint (great capability).

    http://www.firenews.org/vt/StAlbansTownVTL1.jpg
    GB

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    Talking Class 1 Pressure Governor

    E-One with Class 1 Pressure Governor.

    H'mm lets see:

    1) Fellow who started Class 1 was the president of E-One in its early years
    2) Class 1 is almost just down the street from E-One in Ocala.
    3) Many people who work at Class 1 used to work at E-One

    Yes, I'd say it was a safe bet that their standard would be Class 1 with Fire Research as an option!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSIaerialmanTIM View Post
    Get a pressure gov. if you can affod it. FRC & Class 1 are nice.
    Which manufacturer(s) don't use electronic governors these days?

    Some departments actually opt-out of the pressure "cruise control" feature?
    God Bless America!Remember all have given some, but some have given all.
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    If you demand it, I'd bet just about everyone would build you a rig with a good old pressure relief valve that is operator set.
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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    Default e-one quint 75

    We speced out a new e-one quint according to the exact specs of the demo. It has a 2000gpm hale/500gwt 75ft rear mounted stick and the side stacker for ease of LDH removal and replacement. It was delivered fully equipped at a cost of 528 g's in 2004. After debugging it has proven very useful as an outside station apparatus and has operated several times at serious fires where two aerials were required on the first alarm.
    Last edited by wfd4fireman; 08-25-2007 at 01:09 AM. Reason: typo

  15. #15
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    Default the Pump Boss

    Quote Originally Posted by Resq14 View Post
    Which manufacturer(s) don't use electronic governors these days?
    Nothing is free & most everything is optional, upgrades and downgrades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Resq14 View Post
    Some departments actually opt-out of the pressure "cruise control" feature?
    Yep, and then when they find out that the "real" vernier they just got is still electronically controlled - it's a big belly drop, because they were assuming it was cable controlled. Might as well get the pres. gov.

    I think the Pump Boss is pretty cool with a nice feel on its "imitation" vernier. I highly recommend it. TL
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    Default Hiding in the bushes?

    Quote Originally Posted by wfd4fireman View Post
    We speced out a new e-one quint according to the exact specs of the demo. It has a 2000gpm hale/500gwt 75ft rear mounted stick and the side stacker for ease of LDH removal and replacement. It was delivered fully equipped at a cost of 528 g's in 2004. After debugging it has proven very useful as an outside station apparatus and has operated several times at serious fires where two aerials were required on the first alarm.
    I see you changed your screen name.. you are still the same .. you will become argumentative again soon im sure..You are not A firefighter and that dept. your pretending to be part of bought the demo..no specs involved...IMPOSTER!!!
    Last edited by fredstrucks; 10-25-2007 at 02:10 PM.

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    Default Been there, done that

    Quote Originally Posted by Resq14 View Post
    Which manufacturer(s) don't use electronic governors these days?

    Some departments actually opt-out of the pressure "cruise control" feature?
    My department has its first and last electronic pressure governor. Purchased it on a 2001 Pierce pumper. It has been reprogrammed several times, completely replaced once, and all the engineers hated it. So all of our subsequent apparatus, including the current one we have out for bid, a mechanical relief is required:

    "A mechanical relief valve shall be provided that is capable of safely controlling the rated capacity of the pump at maximum rated pressure."

    Maybe we just got a bad one, but the negative experience has affected our confidence of this type product for the near future.

    C6

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    Default Yes Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    If you demand it, I'd bet just about everyone would build you a rig with a good old pressure relief valve that is operator set.
    They certainly will.

    None of the bidders took exception to the portion of our spec that states:
    "A mechanical relief valve shall be provided that is capable of safely controlling the rated capacity of the pump at maximum rated pressure."

    C6
    Last edited by Command6; 10-24-2007 at 02:56 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSIaerialmanTIM View Post
    Yep, and then when they find out that the "real" vernier they just got is still electronically controlled - it's a big belly drop, because they were assuming it was cable controlled. Might as well get the pres. gov.
    TL
    Respectfully Tim,
    There is quite a difference between an electronic veriner throttle with a mechanical relief valve and an automatic electronic pressure governor.

    C6

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    Default Pressure Governor

    I saw a truck at the FDIC Show in INDY that had a Class 1 Pressure Governor and a Vernier hand throttle with a transfer switch to transfer throttle control between the two devices, AND a mechanical relief valve system as well!
    I think it was in the E-One booth, not sure.
    I think this is overkill and would cause some confusion but that is what the sales rep said the customer wanted.

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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by SCLCBS20 View Post
    Dear friends of firehouse.com:

    After 2+ years of work our fire chief decided to buy an E-One HP 75 Cyclone II Quint.
    Run... Run VeRy far.... Go north to Appleton or even Clintonville you will be Very Very Sorry....

    In all reality this is true... Quality and design are lacking from what I see in Ocala. If you look at a manufacturer and you see most of there workforce just got out of high school how do you think the work ethic will be? It would concern me.

  22. #22
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    Default Electronic Throttle's

    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post
    My department has its first and last electronic pressure governor. Purchased it on a 2001 Pierce pumper. It has been reprogrammed several times, completely replaced once, and all the engineers hated it. So all of our subsequent apparatus, including the current one we have out for bid, a mechanical relief is required:

    "A mechanical relief valve shall be provided that is capable of safely controlling the rated capacity of the pump at maximum rated pressure."

    Maybe we just got a bad one, but the negative experience has affected our confidence of this type product for the near future.

    C6


    C6,

    Was this electronic throttle your talking about Pierce's own version or was it Class One, FRC etc.

    I will tell you when I first saw one I had a negative reaction to them also. However after working with them for almost seven years I think that are great will not spec an apparatus with out one. I will say I did learn that you do need to run your pump at least weekly to make sure your transducer works properly.

    I think the two best out there are the Detriot Fire Commander and the FRC INControl. It also depends which engine your apparatus is equipped with as to how it interacts with the Electronic control. Cummings and Cat's have a one second delay or longer in there reaction time while Detroit is almost instant. (Sam, Tim and so of the other guys here can explain it better. The delay)

    Chief1FF

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    Yeah,the electronic "rat"just runs a little slower in the Cummins maze.On ours during normal ops I just hit preset and walk away.We run Class 1 and outside of the initial learning curve,no issues. T.C.

  24. #24
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    Post E-One Quint

    In 01 my dept took delivery of a demo which has a 2,000 gpm pump, 5k generator, and alot of the same accessories you stated. We had a problem with one of the computer which had to be replaced twice before we could place the truck into service and we also had issues with the paint bubbling and then cracking. After the 3rd time of being OOS due to the paint we told the rep either fix it, or take it back. The panels were removed, new panels installed and the issue was fixed. We have replaced the motor in the master stream nozzle and have had issues with the door handles which don't always want to let us into the truck. We also just replaced a spring on the front end. I'm not sure what the front end rated at but obviously not enough. We have a 6 person cab on the truck with a 75' aluminum stick. We do have a trash line on the front bumper, 2 1.75" crosslays and a 2.5" crosslay as well as the foam pro and on spot chains.

    Due to the issues we had with the quint, our last 3 apparatus have been built by a manufacturer within 150 miles. We felt it was better to have the factory close by so we didn't have to listen to the dealer give us crap about "waiting to hear from the factory".

    Be safe and good luck!!!
    Last edited by MnRFD09; 10-25-2007 at 10:27 AM. Reason: Because I can ;-)

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    Default Firefighter

    Your don't want to be close on your axle weights. It seems both the front and rear axle may be to close for comfort. Another 100 HP would be better also.

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