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  1. #1
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    Default Should LICENSED Explorers/Juniors be able to drive apparatuses?

    (self explanatory)

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    I do not see any reason why an explorer should drive an apparatus.
    -------------------
    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
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    In my best dr cox voice (Scrubs)

    "No, nada, nyet, no way, no how and my all time favourite here barbie......man fallling off of a cliff
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooo!!!"

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    I don't usually venture into the Explorer/Jr. FF area but the title of this thread caught my attention.

    No explores/jrs lack the driving experience and decision making capabilities to operate apparatus safely. I see no problem with teaching explorers/jr's how to operate the various equipment (including pumps and aerials) on apparatus. Actually driving an apparatus? No, not even driver training.

  5. #5
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    Once, under supervision, I drove a reserve engine out of the bay, onto the tarmac, and set it up to pump, since we were washing out the engine bays. I moved it MAYBE 20 feet. It was a great learning experience, and I learned alot. Other then little things like that, under no circumstance. No way. Nope. Not on your life Sally.

    ESPECIALLY under emergency conditions.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
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    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

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    I am not sure about driving. But I do believe that we should learn to put the engine into pump, work the pump panel. Possibly the stick. I don't know fully about my views on this. Though I do know we (as in explorers/juniors) should not drive apparatus in emergency situations. Plus if anything goes wrong we are not covered by the departments insurance policy. so we could get sued and then the department would also get sued for negligence because of the juniors were driving. What I have been told is that if a recruit crashes a rig they are more or less guaranteed to get fired.


    EDIT: Im am changing Emergency situations to any operational, on duty, or front line situations. Maybe in training but I am leaning to no. maybe moving it 20 feet forward but anything above that. no.
    Last edited by t0asty; 08-27-2007 at 01:50 AM.
    "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    It's not the brightest thing to come into a topic and try to provoke a bunch of guys/gals with more time on the firehouse crapper than you do in the firehouse.
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    Look, its NOT your moms sedan, it is a 5 ton or greater piece of motorized apparatus, and it has at least 500 gallons of water in it. Seeing as how fresh water weighs about 8.8 lbs per gallon, that is an additional 4,400 lbs, and it MOVES with the turns. Not to mention the extended wheelbase. No, unless it is moving it forward a few feet, under supervision, and going over safety rules, not on you life.

    Most Chauffers have to have a CDL to even start chauffer training.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
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  8. #8
    Let's talk fire trucks!
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    Absolutely not. There's not enough experience behind the wheel of your family sedan at that point to make an Explorer even comprehend the dynamics of driving an emergency vehicle. The time that you're an Explorer is the time to learn many of the other disciplines of firefighting, driving will come later.

    I remember 17 years ago, as a law enforcement explorer, I was ready to conquer the world. However, I can look back and see that the rules were in place for my safety and the safety of those around me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMtnsFirey View Post
    In my best dr cox voice (Scrubs)

    "No, nada, nyet, no way, no how and my all time favourite here barbie......man fallling off of a cliff
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooo!!!"
    LMAO Dr Cox is my hero.

    Good answer, too, BTW.

    As a sidebar: wouldn't the plural of apparatus be "apparati"?
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  10. #10
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    I think it is like moose not mosses or moosi or how ever you would spell it (why you would spell it is beyond me mainly because it is not a word). That it has not plural(sp?).
    "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    Shall be my brother;..." - King Henry V - Shakespeare

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    It's not the brightest thing to come into a topic and try to provoke a bunch of guys/gals with more time on the firehouse crapper than you do in the firehouse.
    "crispitycrunchitypeanutbuttery t0ast" - DFurtman

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    No. (self-explanatory)

    The whole point of being an Explorer or Junior is to be GROOMED to be a fully certified firefighter one day. Learn the basics, sit on the sidelines watching and when you turn 18 and become a full member of the FD, then you can take on more responsibilities.

    No one under 18 should be driving an emergency vehicle. For that matter, I don't even think they should be able to use blue lights (or whatever courtesy light your state might offer for POVs, if any). Hell, I don't even think anyone under 21 is really mature enough to handle the great responsibilities that come with operating apparatus.

    When I wrote the SOPs for my dept's Under 18 members (juniors) a few years ago, I made them extremely restrictive and with good reason. Some of the kids don't like it, but it's for their own good, even if they're too young to realize that. Plus, a lot of it has to do with NYS labor laws that restrict what they can do anyway, regardless of what we feel is right.
    Last edited by Chauffer6; 08-27-2007 at 02:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by t0asty View Post
    I think it is like moose not mosses or moosi or how ever you would spell it (why you would spell it is beyond me mainly because it is not a word). That it has not plural(sp?).
    Since the main thrust of the thread is pretty pointless to begin with, we might's well gain a little education...

    Stolen from www.writers.com, tips on spelling and grammar:
    *Singular (from Greek or Latin) ends in -us: Plural ends in -i
    - focus-foci
    - stimulus-stimuli
    - cactus-cacti
    - nucleus-nuclei
    - octopus-octopi
    - hippopotamus-hippopotami
    (-es forms of all these plurals seem to be taking hold, though)
    - exception: apparatus can be singular or plural although apparatuses is creeping into proper usage.
    PS--note the word "creeping" into proper usage. Drive it back under the rock from whence it came, I say. Apparatus it is, singular or plural.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

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    Default Driving big red lorries

    Why not?

    I live in Noo Zeelund--not even "I fight what you fear" type teenagers can jump the pond in a "Big Red Truck with a ladder on its roof" not even with a Evil Canevel(sp) ramp. So I think I am pretty well safe!





    Can they ??
    "If you thought it was hard getting into the job--wait until you have to hang the "fire gear"up and walk away!"
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  14. #14
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    Humm interesting 1141. First off that is what I thought about the word apparatus. That it is both singular and plural.. And second off. Thanks for the website. I have a feeling it will help me out a little more then some of my teachers would. (on the note of grammar I am looking back at my moose post and cringing at the grammar )
    "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    Shall be my brother;..." - King Henry V - Shakespeare

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    It's not the brightest thing to come into a topic and try to provoke a bunch of guys/gals with more time on the firehouse crapper than you do in the firehouse.
    "crispitycrunchitypeanutbuttery t0ast" - DFurtman

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    No. A 16/17 yr old isn't experienced or responsible enough to drive a 68,000 pound piece of equipment let alone ANY piece of equipment with lights and sirens.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Thumbs down

    Simply put, NO!!!!

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    Were you dropped on your head as a child?













    And yes we should know how to put a truck in pump, etc, etc. I am presently the only explorer on our post who knows how to put all of our trucks in pump and run the pump.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    Were you dropped on your head as a child?
    Why, yes, I was.



    Oh, not talking to me?
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    Why, yes, I was.



    Oh, not talking to me?
    I was dropped on my head AND ate paint chips as a child. BEAT THAT!
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    Licensed as what? Drivers or explorers? I am assuming licensed drivers since I dont know of any explorer licenses. I know in GA to drive fire apparatus you have to have a different class license than regular drivers, and to obtain that license you must be 18 years old and have an affadavit that says you have had so many hours of driver training. So that exludes all juniors from driving apparatus, as it should.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Not only no, but hell no. Beyond what others have already said, most departments' insurance companies won't cover you until you're 21. The youngest I've seen is 18. Aside from that, most states cover this under child labor laws; no one under 18 can operate power equipment. If you can't run a chainsaw on a scene, why would I let you drive the truck?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    Were you dropped on your head as a child?




    And yes we should know how to put a truck in pump, etc, etc. I am presently the only explorer on our post who knows how to put all of our trucks in pump and run the pump.
    Oooooo......

    I know nothing about the pumps at Rossford. I only know 801, kinda sorta.

    Explorers/Juniors do not belong driving an apparatus no further than the tarmac... not even Support 4 (for those of you familiar with Mr. Yates...)
    But pulling something up/out of a bay for washing purposes... Ok... but there should be someone in the officer's seat and/or watching closely from the side of the bay.
    Firefighter/EMT
    My words stated here do not necessarily point towards organizations which I am affiliated with.

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    Many moons ago, when I started off as an Explorer (wasn't called explorer back then, people just grunted and pointed), we weren't allowed to drive apparatus. However, on several occasions, I did drive the trucks, because I was ordered to do so (I know some people will say "You should have refused!", but do you think any 15 year-old Jr fireman is gonna say "NO" when told to drive the BRT to a call?). Now, I make a living driving fire trucks and I realize how incredibly stupid my chief (who told me to drive) and myself were. Aside from all the insurance prohibitions, at that age, you simply do not have the experience, training or mindset to drive a vehicle that large that has so many responsibilities. I'm certainly not trying to say "you dumb kids, you don't know anything" (I head that enough when I was one) - I'm simply pointing out the reality of the situation.

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    I think everyone here summed it up in one way or another. I just want to throw in my 2 cents as well Junior firefighters need to first demonstrate they can be firefighters before they get behind the wheel of a rig. Just because the junior is "qualified" and shows devotion towards wanting to drive, that does not make him or her a firefighter. Learn the basics and then get the added duties of being a firefighter / driver.

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    Put it to yah in simple terms. NO!
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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