Thread: Meth House

  1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    88

    Default Meth House

    We got toned out to a 2 story structural fire today at 530 pm. We got on scene and we started exterior attack along with minor interior attack. Well, my exterior attack "buddy" and i were putting a stream through a window when my ***. chief told us to back off! We were told there was a possibility that the house contained meth! We had no air packs on so we were in danger of the fumes and a possible explosion! Luckily, the house contained no evidence of meth, so we got lucky!!

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    775

    Default

    You were in danger whether it was a meth house or not, because you were close enough to put water on it but for some idiotic reason weren't wearing SCBA.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    KEEPBACK200FEET's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    East Carolina University
    Posts
    1,176

    Default

    I, for one, have a problem with anyone dumping water into a window from the outside when I'm making an interior attack.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    Go put your pussy 2 1/2" lines away kiddies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer343

    By the way KEEPBACK200FEET, you're so dramatic!

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Toledo/Pittsburgh
    Posts
    1,316

    Default

    Billy G. is probably going to have a headline tonight about this one...
    I can see it already...
    "Even Juniors Can't Don an Airpack but are Able to Run an Exterior line on a Structure While There's an Interior Crew inside? To Make Matters Worse, Fire Crews Later Find Out that Structure was a Possible Meth Lab."

    Yes, I know I exaggerated the headline a little bit... but I made my point.
    Firefighter/EMT
    My words stated here do not necessarily point towards organizations which I am affiliated with.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    SW MO
    Posts
    4,249

    Default

    Can someone educate me? What is a "minor interior attack?"

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    MEck51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    444

    Default

    "Can someone educate me? What is a "minor interior attack?""


    Better option, somebody ought to educate JRSCVFS. First and foremost, you should not be performing an exterior attack while there is an interior attack. You are pushing the fire on to the interior crew! I've had it done to me before, the results suck. Secondly you should not be in an IDLH with out breathing protection, in other words - you should not be in the smoke or byproducts with out an air pak. Grant it there are exceptions to the rules, but from the brief posting you made, it sounds like someone is going to get hurt real soon if your department continues to operate like you stated.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    tbonetrexler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Magnolia, Delaware US
    Posts
    527

    Default

    why in the @#$% would you get off a truck AT A CONFIRMED WORKING STRUCTURE without an airpack? And if they are not mounted in the cab, why the @#$% would you not get one and don it before stretching a line?
    Do a little dance, make a little rum, Italian Ice! Italian Ice!

    Actual lyric: Do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight, get down tonight.
    (KC & The Sunshine Band "Do A Little Dance")

    My thoughts are mine alone and do not represent the thoughts of any Organization to which I am affiliated.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    The Mistake On The Lake
    Posts
    470

    Default

    probably because he's a junior, and can't don a pack, since he can't make an attack.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    506

    Default

    Am I the only one that see a problem with a Jr preforming any real world fire suppression efforts? Live burns are one thing but a real working house fire possibly with hazardous materials we (Jrs/explorers/cadets) should be FAR away-end of story.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,059

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tbonetrexler View Post
    why in the @#$% would you get off a truck AT A CONFIRMED WORKING STRUCTURE without an airpack? And if they are not mounted in the cab, why the @#$% would you not get one and don it before stretching a line?
    The same reason why any other Junior shouldnt. He shouldnt have to worry about being close enough to use it.

    Being that close was not entirely his fault. It was the senior officer's.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber
    batchief99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    233

    Default

    Sounds like a need for a serious review of the Department Policy and Procedures on several fronts.

  12. #12
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by batchief99 View Post
    Sounds like a need for a serious review of the Department Policy and Procedures on several fronts.
    I here that!

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber
    EFD840's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Eclectic (no, NOT electric), Alabama
    Posts
    1,510

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Can someone educate me? What is a "minor interior attack?"
    Maybe they had juniors on that line too?

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    90

    Default

    i can only hope that my department never lets thagt happen. we have juniors and we let them work on the scene but never that close. maybe after inital mopup we let them go spray a little but but dang that's ballsy of the department
    Originally Posted by the1141man
    IACOJ is what Firehouse should have been to begin with, and what it now couldn't even aspire to in its wildest dreams.- the1141man

    the opinions typed in the above space are mine and mine alone

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    tbonetrexler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Magnolia, Delaware US
    Posts
    527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jerry4184 View Post
    probably because he's a junior, and can't don a pack, since he can't make an attack.
    Rules are different from department to department, as i have tried to show on these boards again and again. At the age of 16, I was pack qualified, trained in fire suppression, basic hazmat skills (decon and isolation and the like), trained in vehicle rescue techniques and riding trucks. If we had had a fire (few fires here) my ***** would have been right in there on the line doing what i was trained to do, fight fire. Even for an AFA, you should get off that truck packed up and ready to work, cause you never know for sure what you will find.
    Do a little dance, make a little rum, Italian Ice! Italian Ice!

    Actual lyric: Do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight, get down tonight.
    (KC & The Sunshine Band "Do A Little Dance")

    My thoughts are mine alone and do not represent the thoughts of any Organization to which I am affiliated.

  16. #16
    IACOJ BOD
    FlyingKiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,757

    Default

    Apart from the obvious WTF were the bosses doing letting you at the lines there is one other thing.

    It instantly became a HAZMAT operation as soon as the suspicion was raised of Meth.

    You should have been told to "get the h@ll out of Dodge", not just "back off"

    Keep doing that as a department and it will not be long before we are all reading of another pointless LODD
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  17. #17
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Green Bay
    Posts
    1,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jacklrd View Post
    Am I the only one that see a problem with a Jr preforming any real world fire suppression efforts? Live burns are one thing but a real working house fire possibly with hazardous materials we (Jrs/explorers/cadets) should be FAR away-end of story.


    Absolutely not. I see some of my comments made on explorers on med calls thread did not sit too well with some jr members. I basically stated how explorers are there to observe. In that thread as well as this, it is situations like this that make me nervous that some jr FF and explorers think they are entitled to do suppression.

    I know policies are different everywhere, and I'm sorry if I don't agree with someone's idea that explorers and jr FF can do more than what the real idea behind a post are. Explorers and jr's are there to learn the job and what it entails to see if it would be a career choice for them. It is not supposed to be some way for a dept to utilize children on a fire scene.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    SW MO
    Posts
    4,249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tbonetrexler View Post
    Rules are different from department to department, as i have tried to show on these boards again and again. At the age of 16, I was pack qualified, trained in fire suppression, basic hazmat skills (decon and isolation and the like), trained in vehicle rescue techniques and riding trucks. If we had had a fire (few fires here) my ***** would have been right in there on the line doing what i was trained to do, fight fire. Even for an AFA, you should get off that truck packed up and ready to work, cause you never know for sure what you will find.
    Honest question: Does your department of labor allow that under child labor laws? Ours will not allow anyone under 18 to operate powered machinery or go into hazardous environments. We're allowed to let them go in with packs after the fire is controlled (out in our policies) to assist with overhaul, but not while there's working fire.

    We utilize our explorers quite a bit on fire scenes. Their first responsibility is to set up the staging/RIT area and equipment. Second is to establish a rehab area. Then they can assist with things like dragging hose, spraying water (if it's defensive), overhaul, cleaning and putting up equipment and hose, and things like that.

  19. #19
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    88

    Default

    Ok so where to begin to even try to explain the situation I know i wont be able to get through but im going to act mature and not bash(theres a difference btw bashing and helpful advice). First, unlike most of you guys(and gals) our department is an undermanned, underbudget, poor fire department! We have 70 firefighters(with 80% being over the age of 60) but not that many air packs( say what you want, if you would like to donate packs, let me know!) to go around. So, yes i had no ai pack! Second, when i said minor interior attack, i meant before we started dumping water through the window. Third, we have jrs on the line, not on nozzle, but on the line as backup. So, yes, like an earlier thread long ago about jrs and povs, we are different. im sorry but thats how it is.

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    tbonetrexler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Magnolia, Delaware US
    Posts
    527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Honest question: Does your department of labor allow that under child labor laws? Ours will not allow anyone under 18 to operate powered machinery or go into hazardous environments. We're allowed to let them go in with packs after the fire is controlled (out in our policies) to assist with overhaul, but not while there's working fire.

    We utilize our explorers quite a bit on fire scenes. Their first responsibility is to set up the staging/RIT area and equipment. Second is to establish a rehab area. Then they can assist with things like dragging hose, spraying water (if it's defensive), overhaul, cleaning and putting up equipment and hose, and things like that.
    It is a common practice throughout the entire state, small as it may be, you cannot slip it under the radar. We had a junior recently receive an award for heroism (with the rest of the engine crew) for his role in saving a elderly woman's life in a house fire. And he wasen't outside being a gopher, he was right in on the line, backing up one of the chiefs on the nob. The whole crew was recognized by the County government for their actions. Also, the state fireman's association is going to recognize the crew at the annual conference. With so much OFFICIAL recognition, if it is illegal, why hasen't something been said?


    We are a rural department coming to grips with a growth and population explosion while also trying to deal with a decrease in volunteers. We have approximately 35 active firefighter, of which, maybe 7 or 8 honestly come to every call they are available for, at least 2 of those bieng juniors. There have been times when i was the officer of the truck as a junior, and at least one time, if i recall correctly, i had to be the officer of the first due truck, thus command, because i was the senior guy to respond. Was i the oldest? No, but i was the active firefighter with the most time in the company.
    Do a little dance, make a little rum, Italian Ice! Italian Ice!

    Actual lyric: Do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight, get down tonight.
    (KC & The Sunshine Band "Do A Little Dance")

    My thoughts are mine alone and do not represent the thoughts of any Organization to which I am affiliated.

  21. #21
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jrscvfs View Post
    Ok so where to begin to even try to explain the situation I know i wont be able to get through but im going to act mature and not bash(theres a difference btw bashing and helpful advice). First, unlike most of you guys(and gals) our department is an undermanned, underbudget, poor fire department! We have 70 firefighters(with 80% being over the age of 60) but not that many air packs( say what you want, if you would like to donate packs, let me know!) to go around. So, yes i had no ai pack! Second, when i said minor interior attack, i meant before we started dumping water through the window. Third, we have jrs on the line, not on nozzle, but on the line as backup. So, yes, like an earlier thread long ago about jrs and povs, we are different. im sorry but thats how it is.

    Lets say this building collapses or something happens where you get hurt like a meth lab explodes and you end up getting seriously injured. Who's going to end up paying for your bills? Honestly if it got to the point where you have to depend on explorers or juniors to help out, you probably should mutual aid another department for manpower. That way, people with the proper training and experience can help out. There's way too much risk involved being young and thinking you know everything. Trust me, I was that way. Plus, you're young. You'll see fire another day down the road.

  22. #22
    Forum Member
    t0asty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    297

    Default

    If they are apart of the learning for life (LFL) organization and they (the explorer) was fallowing all the rules and regulations of there department and the rules for learning for life... then the LFL should cover the insurance costs or at least some of it. I have not yet read the policy. But we are covered under some insurance. Dont remember exactly how much though.

    Just a side note.
    "...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    Shall be my brother;..." - King Henry V - Shakespeare

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    It's not the brightest thing to come into a topic and try to provoke a bunch of guys/gals with more time on the firehouse crapper than you do in the firehouse.
    "crispitycrunchitypeanutbutter y t0ast" - DFurtman

  23. #23
    IACOJ BOD
    FlyingKiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,757

    Default

    Well,

    That will be reasuring to everyone when they change from T0asty to Crispy Critter.

    No doubt just everyone will feel heaps better about it.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  24. #24
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    775

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by t0asty View Post
    If they are apart of the learning for life (LFL) organization and they (the explorer) was fallowing all the rules and regulations of there department and the rules for learning for life... then the LFL should cover the insurance costs or at least some of it. I have not yet read the policy. But we are covered under some insurance. Dont remember exactly how much though.

    Just a side note.
    If they are a Learning for Life organization, than they were not following the rules. The BSA doesn't allow its members in the hot zone, period.

    No followee the rules, no getee the insurance.

    Not for nothing, how were you guys employing 70+ firefighter (and so were out of air packs) on a bread-and-butter type structure fire like the one described?

    I actually want to know what department this is, so I can report them to their state fire standards office before they get someone killed.

    EDIT: Aaaah, I see we are talking about Stewart County. The Tennessee Commission on Fire Fighting Personnel Standards and Education would be the relevent agency to step in. Good to know. I'll see if they think "we're different. i'm sorry but thats how it is."
    Last edited by randsc; 08-31-2007 at 06:42 AM.

  25. #25
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    775

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tbonetrexler View Post
    It is a common practice throughout the entire state, small as it may be, you cannot slip it under the radar. We had a junior recently receive an award for heroism (with the rest of the engine crew) for his role in saving a elderly woman's life in a house fire. And he wasen't outside being a gopher, he was right in on the line, backing up one of the chiefs on the nob. The whole crew was recognized by the County government for their actions. Also, the state fireman's association is going to recognize the crew at the annual conference. With so much OFFICIAL recognition, if it is illegal, why hasen't something been said?


    We are a rural department coming to grips with a growth and population explosion while also trying to deal with a decrease in volunteers. We have approximately 35 active firefighter, of which, maybe 7 or 8 honestly come to every call they are available for, at least 2 of those bieng juniors. There have been times when i was the officer of the truck as a junior, and at least one time, if i recall correctly, i had to be the officer of the first due truck, thus command, because i was the senior guy to respond. Was i the oldest? No, but i was the active firefighter with the most time in the company.
    If you were not 18, you were not in command. You may have been ACTING like you were in command, but you were not legally competent and therefore could not have the legal responsibilities associated with command. Hence, you were not in command, no matter how you acted.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. World Of Fire Report: 01-15-06
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-22-2006, 05:29 PM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 12-18-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-24-2005, 09:42 PM
  3. World Of Fire Report: 01-22-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-23-2005, 02:46 PM
  4. World Of Fire Report: 04-03-04
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-04-2004, 12:58 PM
  5. World Of Fire Report: 12-06-03
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-07-2003, 12:14 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register