1. #1
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    Default Is annual testing needed for Telesquirts?

    Our department will be selling our current ladder truck, a '72 Maxim 85ft quint. The chief wants to replace it with a newer 65ft telesquirt. One of the reasons for selling it is to get something newer and smaller that more guys can drive and to also have a truck that can run as a backup engine and have enough supply line.

    My question is this. I know the Maxim ladder has to be tested every 5 years. Does a telesquirt assembly have to be tested the same way? I suggested a 75ft single axle ladder but the chief thinks the telesquirt doesnt require annual testing while a true ladder would. I thought I had read that since a telesquirt does have the profissions for climbing that it has to be tested. If this is true where can I find it in writing to show the chief and board.
    Firefighter/Paramedic Seven Hills Fire Rescue Mobile,AL

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    Yes it still requires testing. It's an aerial device isn't it?

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    NFPA 1914 - Standard for Testing Fire Department Aerial Devices

    While I don't have the actual copy, the draft of the 2002 edition states:

    1.1 Scope. This standard shall apply to the inspection and testing of all fire apparatus, regardless of year of manufacture, that are equipped with an aerial ladder, an elevating platform, or a water tower.

    I think for ISO credit your chief will have a hard time not testing the device yearly.
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    Pardon my being frank.. but is your chief smoking dope?

    Why replace an aerial, which can be used for roof access, rescue and for defensive fire ops (master stream ladder pipe) with a Telesquirt?

    He's losing 20 feet of reach right off the bat (85 foot stick vs. 65 foot Squirt)

    What is the highest buiiding in town? Even if it is only three stories, you may have setbacks to deal with.

    Example: 3 story garden style apartment, 20 feet of lanscape area, plus a row of parking space = forty feet of setback. Add the 3 stories in height.. a 65 foot squirt comes up short. A 75 foot single axle aerial barely makes it to the roof even if the front of the building is wide open.

    Some SFD's have huge setbacks from the street, too.

    Waiting for a mutual aid truck company that can reach the area is not an option if people are trapped!

    You should be looking at a 100 foot aerial as a minimum.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    NFPA 1914 - Standard for Testing Fire Department Aerial Devices

    While I don't have the actual copy, the draft of the 2002 edition states:

    1.1 Scope. This standard shall apply to the inspection and testing of all fire apparatus, regardless of year of manufacture, that are equipped with an aerial ladder, an elevating platform, or a water tower.

    I think for ISO credit your chief will have a hard time not testing the device yearly.
    THis is how the actual copy reads as well. And the 5 year testing on your Maxim was for NDT, it still requires annual inspection of most components. If it's like our 83 Maxim, we needed NDT annually as it did not age well! Finally it was too much to repair and we got it replaced. I agree with Chief Gonzo, a Squirt is a regression. Unless you have other truck companies in town in close proximety to your first due, I'd stick with a full function aerial. You can show the need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Pardon my being frank.. but is your chief smoking dope?
    ....
    Why replace an aerial, which can be used for roof access, rescue and for defensive fire ops (master stream ladder pipe) with a Telesquirt?You should be looking at a 100 foot aerial as a minimum.
    With all due respect, Gonz, did you miss this part?

    One of the reasons for selling it is to get something newer and smaller that more guys can drive and to also have a truck that can run as a backup engine and have enough supply line.
    It sounds like a TeleSqurt fits their needs better than a full-blown aerial.

    Granted, a TeleSqurt can't do all that a 100' aerial can do but then again, a 100' aerial can't do all the things a TeleSqurt can do.

    Most of the time a TeleSqurt is just an engine with a very elaborate deck gun but there are times when its smaller size and flexibility can really outshine a full-size aerial. I wouldn't presume to tell another department that they needed an aerial over a TeleSqurt unless I knew their response area and fleet make-up very well.

    I suggested a 75ft single axle ladder but the chief thinks the telesquirt doesnt require annual testing while a true ladder would.
    This is the part where the chief is smoking dope...

    The TeleSqurt would require the same annual testing as a 75' ladder and the same annual testing that their old 85' ladder was supposed to be getting all along.
    Last edited by DeputyMarshal; 09-05-2007 at 10:35 AM.
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    Guys,

    The 2002 version of NFPA 1914 is obsolete. The 2007 edition of 1911 combines NFPA 1911, 1914 and 1915. The aerial testing is listed in this edition.

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    To answer a few questions.

    We have been doing the annual testing on the Maxim. However due to it not as someone else put it "ageing well" it has become very exspensive to get it to pass each time. It is still a solid ladder and I wouldnt hesitate to climb any day, it is just starting to show it's age and has become a money pit. It still has current certification.

    As for needing a bigger ladder we dont, the 85 ft has been plenty of reach with some to spare. Our area is almost all residential with some commercial business, the tallest is a grocery store shopping center. We could handle all our heights with ground ladders, but after having the truck we still want some sort of aerial device to access these roofs. All of the large homes in our area that a ladder truck would be good for are so far back from the road that a ladder truck cant be used.

    Most of the time the truck has been used has been as an aerial master stream or water tower capacity. I know that is why the chief wants a telesquirt, we use it more as an elevated stream than for elevated rescue or accessing high roofs,windows etc.

    I just thought if we are getting another aerial device might as well make it a ladder so that we have a better device for climbing and using. I also figure that since our area is growing very fast that a 75 ft ladder will keep up with growth better than a squirt would. We dont need anything bigger since that would put us back where we are now with the Maxim with no one wanting to drive it and not really being able to use it as an engine due to lack of hosebed space.

    All along Ive been telling the chief that he was wrong and that a Telesquirt requires the same testing and ongoing certification as a ladder would. I dont know why he thinks otherwise, Ill just take this to the board and let them fight with him. He is a great chief and this is the first time in 7 years Ive wondered WTF is he thinking. If yall can give me anymore info to show that they do need testing please pass it on.
    Firefighter/Paramedic Seven Hills Fire Rescue Mobile,AL

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    I can't imagine going from an 85' aerial to a 65' squirt. If you need an engine, buy an engine. I wouldn't feel comfortable having a 65' squirt as my primary "aerial" piece.
    Last edited by quint1officer; 09-06-2007 at 01:21 PM.

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    All you have to do is reference NFPA. Most telequirts have a ladder attached to them as well so there in turn it falls under the ladder category of 1901. And I ask what the need of a telesquirt verses a stick is? why not spend a little extra money and get a 75' aluminum stick with 500 gallon tank 1500 gpm pump and the capabilities of carrying 100 5" just a thought. Easiest way to convince is to find the specs of to identical one with a 75' telesquirt and one with 75' stick. The safety benefit to the stick is nicer than that of the squirt

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    Quote Originally Posted by sledrider75 View Post
    All you have to do is reference NFPA. Most telequirts have a ladder attached to them as well so there in turn it falls under the ladder category of 1901. And I ask what the need of a telesquirt verses a stick is? why not spend a little extra money and get a 75' aluminum stick with 500 gallon tank 1500 gpm pump and the capabilities of carrying 100 5" just a thought. Easiest way to convince is to find the specs of to identical one with a 75' telesquirt and one with 75' stick. The safety benefit to the stick is nicer than that of the squirt
    See i thought this was in NFPA but wasnt sure. Im going to get our board president to look at it since the chief wont listen to me. Once again the chief thinks the 65ft or 75ft telesquirt didnt require annual certification like a 75ft ladder would. I tried to tell him otherwise but came here to make sure Im right and I am. I like the safety benefit of stick over the squirt also.

    Like I said further up the 85ft is more than we need and the repairs to keep it certified are becoming exspensive hence wanting to find a newer shorter truck. The 75ft would be plenty of aerial for us and also could run as a backup engine. We obtained the 85 footer for less than market value as a favor from another dept. After having aerial capability we still want to keep it just in a smaller package.

    Mine and some others first choice would be an 85ft plus tower, but it isnt our choice.
    Firefighter/Paramedic Seven Hills Fire Rescue Mobile,AL

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    Default Telesqurt

    We have a 75' Telesqurt which is working very well for our needs. We also have an 85' Snorkel which is our main aerial device.

    We chose the Telesqurt since having good luck with our Snorkel. I am aware that they are two totally different aerials. I will give the new design a compliment in that they were able to put a 75' on a single rear axle. Part of the redesign was the switch from steel to aluminum for the boom construction. They also made a change so that when the aerial is nested, the overhang is not much different than that of a straight 75' ladder.

    There are different opinions on departments using a Telesqurt vs a straight ladder. One thing I will point out is the ladder on a Telesqurt has to meet the same requirements of a straight stick according to NFPA.

    Our tallest structure is a six story senior citizen building. We are fortunate to have other aerial devices close to our twp to call on for mutual aid. We have a 100' Sutphen tower to our east, 100' Pierce Platform to our southeast and a 110' Sutphen tower within 8 miles.

    If a Telesqurt is what works best for your department then that is the direction to head. As far as cost comparison for the two types of aerials, my guess is that they would be close. We paid $485,000 for our 2003 Telesqurt from ALF.
    Jim Shultz
    Oshtemo Fire Dept
    Fleet Maintenance Specialist

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