1. #1
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    Default How many SCBA tanks in your POV?

    Help please, getting conflicting advice on this.

    How many SCBA tanks are we legally allowed to transport in our personal vehicles (for example, going to a training fire without taking an engine)? If there is a rule for this, where does it come from (OSHA? DOT?)?

    I've heard no more than two tanks per car. Not sure where this rule is coming from.

    Many thanks in advance,
    Amy

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    Never worried about it or gave it any thought, but I know all the suppliers ship them empty as they become DOT regulated requiring placards when their charged. Not sure how many makes them require the placards though? Interesting question that maybe we don't want to know the answer to.

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    Contact your nearest OSHA or DOT field office and ask.
    Last edited by KEEPBACK200FEET; 09-06-2007 at 04:19 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Never worried about it or gave it any thought, but I know all the suppliers ship them empty as they become DOT regulated requiring placards when their charged.
    Where regulated by DOT, they have to be labeled and placarded whether they're charged or not. It's just more prudent to ship them empty.

    As for transporting SCBA tanks in a POV, unless you have specific state or local laws limiting the number, it isn't an issue. DOT regulations only apply to hazmats transported in interstate commerce.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    Funny the scott cylinders I got with our new packs were full when I got them in the boxes.
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    If you are transporting some in the back of say, an SUV, I bet they would be one helluva projectile in the event of an MVA.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

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    this is an interesting question! hope someone comes up with the correct answer

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    What are the odds that somewhere there is a whacker with placards on his POV?
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    It goes by weight. I transport SCBA cylinders for a living. As long as I'm under 1000lbs of full cylinders I don't need to be placarded. Empty cylinders are not considered HAZMAT, as long as they have gauges on them ( i.e. - scba cylinders). I can haul as many as I want. Cascade cylinders are always considered to be full, because they have no gauge to tell you otherwise.

    Transporting POV?? I don't know. Maybe DOT might have an issue with your cylinders not being properly secured.

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    Default thanks and here's some more info

    Hi folks, thanks a lot for all the replies. At work a fellow firefighter found this on the OSHA website:

    49CFR 173.6 non flammable gas each cylinder must weigh less than 100kg or 220 lbs with a total gross weight of 440 lbs . for total material of trade.
    Side note .: please make sure cylinders are secure


    So according to this, we theoretically could take 17 full SCBA tanks (secured) in our POV. I agree that in the event of an MVA, we could then be launched to the moon, but even one tank hit the right way in an MVA could ruin our day, right? So maybe the total number is moot.

    If anyone has more info or guidelines, please add to this. I'm thinking NFPA must have addressed this at some point, but haven't found anything yet.

    Thanks,
    Amy

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    Are we exempt, ( I think I already know the answer) for our mobile cascades and other apparatus that carry a ton of bottles on them?
    Jason Brooks
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    Lightbulb Well.............

    It appears that someone is trying to have a little fun at the expense of a rookie.

    1. SCBA Cylinders are NOT a Hazardous Material and do not fall under State or Federal HazMat rules. Air is NOT hazardous to your health unless you're not getting any.

    2. SCBA Cylinders ARE a Pressurized Container, and Motor Carrier Safety Standards MAY apply. I've seen SCBA Cylinders arrive at the VFD in a UPS Truck, in a cardboard box. So much for the "Properly Secured" idea.

    3. My folks throw a SCBA in the trunk or back seat, and go to class. End of Story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    1. SCBA Cylinders are NOT a Hazardous Material and do not fall under State or Federal HazMat rules. Air is NOT hazardous to your health unless you're not getting any.
    Au contraire, mon ami... SCBA cylinders are most definitely classed as hazmats are are regulated under Title 49 just like any other hazmat: Compressed air is a Class 2 Division 2.2 non-flammable, non-toxic gas, UN/NA ID 1002, ERG Guide 122.

    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    I've seen SCBA Cylinders arrive at the VFD in a UPS Truck, in a cardboard box. So much for the "Properly Secured" idea.
    Demonstrating that the common belief that UPS doesn't transport hazmats is false. They just don't transport placardable quantities in neighborhood delivery vans. (The cardboard box should have had a green class 2 label on it. Did it?)

    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    3. My folks throw a SCBA in the trunk or back seat, and go to class. End of Story.
    That's all well and good but, IMHO, it was actually a good "heads up" question to ask.

    SCBA cylinders are hazardous materials and we shouldn't let familiarity make us forget that.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    You could check with the person who hydro-test the bottles. They must be certified by DOT to do this. A couple of years ago I went through the training and was certified to test. I do know that if the bottles are filled they are considered hazardous, hence the bottles are usually shipped empty, this eliminates the hazardous materials charge. DOT regulates the transportation of this bottles. You should check with them. OSHA regulates the storage and use in the fire house. In fact, I believe if you look on the bottle it will tell you the applicable regulations

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    It appears that someone is trying to have a little fun at the expense of a rookie.

    1. SCBA Cylinders are NOT a Hazardous Material and do not fall under State or Federal HazMat rules. Air is NOT hazardous to your health unless you're not getting any.

    2. SCBA Cylinders ARE a Pressurized Container, and Motor Carrier Safety Standards MAY apply. I've seen SCBA Cylinders arrive at the VFD in a UPS Truck, in a cardboard box. So much for the "Properly Secured" idea.

    3. My folks throw a SCBA in the trunk or back seat, and go to class. End of Story.
    Just because they do it doesn't make it right

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    Just because they do it doesn't make it right
    Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
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    Does common sense count as evidence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
    CFR 49.172 covers it. They address compressed air in the tables, It is a type 2.2

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    CFR 49.172 covers it. They address compressed air in the tables, It is a type 2.2
    So are you going to share what it is you found, and what it says about the rules for transport?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    So are you going to share what it is you found, and what it says about the rules for transport?
    As soon as I find it. Ever read one of those things? I'm trying to find an interpretation that discusses it. Stand by for further updates.

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    Default and the answer is....

    *humming tune from "Jeopardy"*

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    Quote Originally Posted by enginegirl1 View Post
    *humming tune from "Jeopardy"*
    I would pause that. I have sent an email to DOT asking the question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enginegirl1 View Post
    *humming tune from "Jeopardy"*
    Don't bother. Federal DOT doesn't apply. If there are any laws/regulations that would limit how many SCBA bottles you can have in a POV they will be state or local -- not Federal DOT.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    interesting thread and discussion,i could never imagine such questions here.it is forbidden to transport SCBA bottles in your POV in France.SCBA bottles are in a special truck and POV are forbidden at fireground.
    "sauver ou périr"

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    Don't bother. Federal DOT doesn't apply. If there are any laws/regulations that would limit how many SCBA bottles you can have in a POV they will be state or local -- not Federal DOT.
    Actually CFR 49 covers the transportation of hazardous materials. If you look it over you will see that compressed air is indeed covered.

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