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  1. #1
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    Default Larger gauge hose for interior attack

    There seems to be a lot of discussion on my dept. about increasing the use of 2 1/2" hose for interior attack. While I realize the knockdown power is greater I believe problems with maneuverability will outway the benefits especially when used in cramped residential situations. The 1 3/4" hose we currently use gets the job done most of the time. Any thoughts?
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  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber fireslayer1237's Avatar
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    on a residential fire I don't think there is hardly ever any reason to use anything bigger then 1.75" hose interior. you can get 200 GPM out of it, easier to deploy, handle, and manuver. a 2.5" would be very difficult to work with in a residential fire while interior.

    The only time I would use a 2.5" is for surround and drowns on residentials. or if in my dept. case we are low on manpower show up with 2 on the scene and can wait up to sometimes 8 min. before the next unit shows up. in this case I pull a 2.5 and do an aggressive exterior attack. usually will knock down the majority of the fire and has so much flow it won't push the fire too much. then I follow up with a 1.75 to go interior once additional resources show up.
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  3. #3
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    I think using both makes for a fine happy medium. 2nd line in the door is a 2.5" backup line. If the fire becomes more then the 1.75 can handle, the 2.5 is there to kick its ***. Just gotta remember to send in a new backup line.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Forum Member carolinablue's Avatar
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    I wouldn't suggest doing an interior attack on your average house fire with anything above a 1 3/4 inch line. The 2.5 inch line has always been used for exterior attacks.

  5. #5
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    We will only use 1 3/4" hose for a residential fire.

    If you want more blast for your buck, investigate CAFS. That 2 1/2" is a bear to navigate through a house.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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  6. #6
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    1-3/4" is usually plenty at my department. If you really need more, what about a 2" with a 1" smooth bore?

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    I think you have to qualify it with more information.

    Are you talking about standard stick frame single family homes well under 3000 square feet per floor? The 1 3/4 should be plenty for interior work.

    If you have a lot of McMansions at or over 4000 square feet per floor you may very well want to talk about 2 or 2 1/2 inch lines. Those houses are not only bigger, but have a lot more open spaces and room to move. The handling may not be as much of an issue, and the extra water may be needed.

    And of course, for industrial and even light commercial, 2 1/2 should be a front-line tool.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFDKevin View Post
    There seems to be a lot of discussion on my dept. about increasing the use of 2 1/2" hose for interior attack. While I realize the knockdown power is greater I believe problems with maneuverability will outway the benefits especially when used in cramped residential situations. The 1 3/4" hose we currently use gets the job done most of the time. Any thoughts?
    What district are you in? I'm in the 4th and haven't heard anyone talking about bigger lines. I know about a year - year and a half ago E-38 and I think E-95 had some 2" with smoothbores to test out. I tried it out and didn't think much of it.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    I think using both makes for a fine happy medium. 2nd line in the door is a 2.5" backup line. If the fire becomes more then the 1.75 can handle, the 2.5 is there to kick its ***. Just gotta remember to send in a new backup line.
    We don't use "back-up" lines per se - if I understand what you mean by that.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

  10. #10
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    When I say backup line, I mean a 2.5" that goes in behind the attack line for backup and protection. Primary function is protection of the attack team, stairwells, egress, etc. If the attack team needs bigger water, they can move up and nail it quickly. If the backup line becomes overly involved in attack, another backup team should move in to replace them.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  11. #11
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    I used 2" on a past department, and while it certainly had great knockdown power, it was honestly too much hose for most residental operations, especially if you ran short-staffed.

    It would take a good, hearty 3 man hose team to get it up to the second floor effectivly plus a 4th man at the door.

    We used it as our only attack line, and it was definatly more line than you needed for you garden variety car and dumpster fire.

  12. #12

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    Default 2-1/2" too big for average residential

    We had an old chief a number of years ago that ordered a 2-1/2" line into a small (aprox 800 sq. ft.) story and a half. Its next to impossible to maneuver that in a small space! A lot of cussing on the fireground, everyone was p***d off.

    One or two 1-3/4 attack lines is all that's needed on your average residential homes, we also lay backup lines. We now also have a Vindicator nozzle on our primary engine if more volume is needed. Still 1-3/4" but double your volume.

  13. #13
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    We have 1"3/4 crosslays on our engine, plus a trash line.
    We carry 800 ft. of 3" in the bed, with a 2" YZ bundle, and another Z bundle of 2." Each bundle is 200 ft.

    Just remember: Little fire:Little Water
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  14. #14
    Forum Member Frmboybuck's Avatar
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    Jacob said it best....It depends on the situation you face. If you have a big, deep seated fire, an 1.75 line can cause as much harm as it can good.
    Buck
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  15. #15
    It looks hot in there PureAdrenalin's Avatar
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    Okay, food for thought...a 2.5 is heavy and cumbersome to drag up to a 2nd floor in a residential sturcture..but..does everyone forget about advancing the line dry? I've done it before with a limited crew and the fire seated on teh 2nd floor...it's hard, but it's much easier than trying to drag a charged 2.5 up the stairs.
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  16. #16
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    PureAdrenalin, listen, some guys are barely willing to go interior at all when they see fire...now you want them to go in with an uncharged line?








    (note - it's standard practice here to go with uncharged)
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  17. #17
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    i've done training using a 2.5 for basment fires. Due to the lack of ventilation and higher heat conditions, it was thought greater gpm's on the fire would be benifitial. It worked... when you had 8 people moving the line, but not much better than an 1.75 would in the same exact situation.

    It really is more about how you use your water than how much you flow.

    How many times do you see people not hit the ceiling first? How often do you see a fog pattern come out of a nozzle rather than a nice hard straight stream? How often do you see ventilation not being preformed where and when it should be to coincide with the extinguishment of the fire? How many times do you see the nozzleman flow water, then shut it down, repetedly doing so and not aggressively making a knock?

    Simple conclusion: Would it work? Yes, of course. Is it practical? No. But every situation is different...

  18. #18
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    Most engines in my dept. carry a 250' 2 inch line with a stack tip. I personally don't have a lot of problem pulling/advancing it. If we are running garden apts, it is normally pulled to the top floor/cockloft area. Normally we do try and stretch it dry, but i have had pump operators get the bell sh*ts and charge it early (twice while still on my shoulder). It can put out a lot of fire. Also, if we are running a commercial building, it is a good initial due to the flow/capabilities of the stack tip. We normally don't have the manpower to run a 2 1/2 inch line (two of us on the engine most times). Actually at my station, we don't even have a single stitch of 2 1/2 inch hose!

    Stay Safe

  19. #19
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cap6888 View Post
    Most engines in my dept. carry a 250' 2 inch line with a stack tip. I personally don't have a lot of problem pulling/advancing it. If we are running garden apts, it is normally pulled to the top floor/cockloft area. Normally we do try and stretch it dry, but i have had pump operators get the bell sh*ts and charge it early (twice while still on my shoulder). It can put out a lot of fire. Also, if we are running a commercial building, it is a good initial due to the flow/capabilities of the stack tip. We normally don't have the manpower to run a 2 1/2 inch line (two of us on the engine most times). Actually at my station, we don't even have a single stitch of 2 1/2 inch hose!

    Stay Safe

    Yeah, What he said. We do have some 2.5 though, about 500 feet of it. We have a Long Line for going to the rear of some of our Condo buildings, where we might have a stretch up to 600 feet. For this, we have a "Bundle load" of 200 ft of 2.0 on top of a bed of 2.5 The bundle is connected to the 2.5, and when the O.I.C. has enough line to the entrance, He/She radios the Driver to "Break it and charge it". We rarely have Water related problems, BUT, We run a "Backup Line" in behind the Attack Line on all Fires. The backup Line is, By S.O.P., always the next size larger than the Attack Line. (Yes, I've run a 3 inch Hand Line, and Yes, we have the Tips for it, usually a 1.1/4 Smoothbore. )


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  20. #20
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    2 1/2" on a residential structure as primary attack? Haven't done it since my POC days. 99.9% of all our fires are knocked with an 1 3/4" and another that size for back up. A big reason is a quick response time afforded being full time, a huge advantage that can't be overlooked. Even a well involved structure is mainly contents for the first minutes. A third line is also pulled, from another engine or the squad, but mainly for stairwell protection if the truck is working above or the awe ***** line if things go south.
    With good nozzle control, and good basic skills, it's amazing the amount of fire two 1 3/4" lines can douse.
    Now if we pull up and there is a well involved garage with an exposure, 2 1/2" is a great choice. Must mostly that line is for external ops. Another option for the IOC or IC can use.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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