Thread: Purchasing an used TIC.
09-18-2007, 03:39 PM #1
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Purchasing an used TIC.
My name is Jonas Hansson.
I am a student at a swedish University named "Malmö Högskola" and I am looking for a Thermal Imaging Camera to be used in a project.
I was told to try this forum as a way of getting in touch with a Fire Department that might have an old TIC that were not in use.
Since I'm just a student, I am not even near beeing able to afford a new TIC, so I am hoping that maybe some of you may know where I might be able to purchase an old, used, but working one for under $1000.
The only requierment for it, is that it should be working, and somehow be able to display the output. If it also can save the images to a memorycard, or give image output through cable, that is just a big plus, but defenetly not necessary.
And since I'm in sweden, the only way I can pay is through paypal, and well, the last requierment is that it should be able to be shipped to sweden ofcourse.
If anyone here is able to help me I would very much appreciate it.
I have already searched for one here i Sweden and asked a local firedepartment, but of some reason, they will not sell used TIC's here, but destroy them instead to throw away. But why they do this, the person I asked was not able to explain, but it was regulated somehow by the government here in sweden.
09-26-2007, 09:06 PM #2
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
It is federal law and punishable with jail time to sell a TIC. It is a defense type of issue and is based on security. Cant sell one legally even for research. A check is made to validate your purpose and if you do not have ligit reason. I sell cameras and an investigation take place on each new camera for verification and intended use.
A very large manufacture of cameras just recently was fined about 1,000,000 for not keeping up with the paperwork.
10-08-2007, 12:59 PM #3
Certain technologies are export restricted and the federal government must approve the sale. However, European nations are among the easiest to sell into. It's just a paperwork issue; it is not insurmountable and it is certainly not illegal.
Jonas, don't listen to this goof. You can buy a TI in Europe, which would help ease the import/export regulations. There are several brands either manufactured or sold in Europe (UK, Germany being the two most common). I will say, you probably won't find one for $1000.My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).
10-10-2007, 05:09 AM #4
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Ive been looking at eBay for used TIC's, and there are some sold for below $1000, but of some reason, the sellers all have 0 feedback, nor will they reply on emails so I belive those are fake auctions.
I am greatful for the reply thought, didnt dare continue to look after I saw that answer from draegerman4050, thanks.
10-18-2007, 12:12 AM #5
I don't know what your project is, but I wonder if you could sweet talk a TI sales rep into demo-ing a unit for you. Maybe worth a try?
10-24-2007, 08:59 AM #6
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
11-27-2007, 11:29 AM #7
- Join Date
- Nov 1999
- ISG Thermal Systems USA
Both Draegerman and Jonathan Bastian are actually correct. It is illegal to export a US made camera out of the USA without an DoC license. And yes, there is paperwork involved – but it is much more than “just a paperwork shuffle.” Each ultimate and intermediate consignee on the license has to be vetted; basically so the governments are confident the cameras will not end-up in some rouge military application. The license has to be applied for by the exporter – i.e. the person or company in the United States that will actually do the exporting. Not necessarily the manufacturer.
Jonathan (used to work for Bullard), the reason I believe you feel it is nothing more than paperwork is because Bullard exports lots of cameras and the government already knows you. Therefore, when Bullard applies for a license, it is assumed to be a real export to a real fire department unless proven otherwise. Same for MSA and same for us (ISG.) I believe it would be a very different story if an unknown individual was applying for a license off an ebay sale. DHS is constantly looking at ebay postings. Posting an infrared camera on ebay, then exporting it without approval, is a sure bet to get yourself nailed. And they will come after you. That is how serious they are about exporting US military or dual-use equipment. This is very serious stuff. I know you guys at Bullard and I know you are all very serious about compliance. As are we, and as are MSA. We all have been around the block a couple of times and know the rules. No rookies here.
With respect to the million dollar fine, that was 100 million dollars and it did not involve thermal imaging – as I recall, it involved the export of amplification type night vision goods and most importantly, the surrounding ITAR restricted technology that makes them work. Big Big problem – Big Big Fine. I wonder how many people got fired over that one?
Good luck finding a camera. However, it will be difficult to get a license for a student. Pretty much impossible because you do not have a bona fide reason to have the camera. However, if you were a Swedish fire brigade, you will have no problem whatsoever. Besides, a thousand dollars is not very realistic for a thermal imaging camera. They are much more expensive than that.
David A. Little
ISG Thermal Systems USA, Inc.
11-28-2007, 01:45 PM #8My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).
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