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Thread: HillaryCare 2.0

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    Default HillaryCare 2.0

    First my disclaimer: I have no party affililation. I believe that the current 2-party system is the downfall of the American Republic, and is the main force responsible for not getting anything done in politics around here. I vote for the person and their platform, not because "my" party is running. I usually lean somewhat conservative, but I really have my hopes up that somebody will take a step in the right direction and fix healthcare. That pretty much means that I am keeping my eyes on the Democrats right now.

    Well, Hillary Clinton decided to announce her grand-plan to fix our healthcare system. Her plan: Make health insurance like car insurance. Everybody will be required "by law" to purchase health insurance. Of course poor people will get help from the government.

    Here is my take on her plan. (By the way, I think that this is the dumbest plan I have ever heard)

    1) Health Insurance Companies are THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IN HEALTHCARE. They do not help people, they make them worse. A 18 year old kid in an office tells a Doctor that his patient is better now, and he will HAVE to discharge their patient, because they will not pay anymore. Do you think that there is a coincidence that as Healthcare Costs get higher, and people get sicker, the Insurance Companies make record profits? If they really were spending the money on patients, they would not be making more money, because we are geting sicker. So Health Insurance companies raise their premiums, tell me that I cannot go to the doctor for a physical to stay healthy, and kick me out of the hospital when I am sick. They deny every claim, will not let you see a specialist, and make you pay huge amounts of your bill out of pocket. But they make more money as we are getting sicker.

    2) Hillary says that her having dinner with lobbyists and special interests does not influence her policy making. Now tell me, who is making a profit from this plan. It is not government-run healthcare, she is right with that. It is the Government (Hillary) forcing every-single American to buy Health Insurance from private (Lobbyists) companies. Sounds alot like Bush Jr. handing over Iraq to Halliburton.

    We need a single-payer system to pay for healthcare. As long as companies are fighting to make money of our health, our health will be the victim.


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    This whole thing is a moot point. The federal government forcing Americans to buy health insurance is unconstitutional. This would be dead before it came close to being enacted.

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    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Question Huh??..........

    I certainly do not disagree that the problems you metioned exist, but I haven't experienced anything like that. My Provider is Optimum Choice of Frederick, Maryland. They have always treated me and my family very well, never denying anything. I also have a prescription and optical plans that are just as good. All of this is thru my employer, who continues to provide for Retirees like me. I'm also old enough to be covered by Medicare and medicaid, and no problems there either................
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    I certainly do not disagree that the problems you metioned exist, but I haven't experienced anything like that. My Provider is Optimum Choice of Frederick, Maryland. They have always treated me and my family very well, never denying anything. I also have a prescription and optical plans that are just as good. All of this is thru my employer, who continues to provide for Retirees like me. I'm also old enough to be covered by Medicare and medicaid, and no problems there either................
    I think that your experiences are probably common to about 98% of the population.

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    Oh no George.

    Someone is now going to start honking about looking after the 2% you missed.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    Oh no George.

    Someone is now going to start honking about looking after the 2% you missed.
    That 2% would not take health insurance if it were offered and would not use it if they had it.

    My cynical, experience formed life has allowed me to have an attitude about this 2% with two words: "Screw 'em".

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    You left out the lawyers who make great deals of money off of frivolous law suits as well. Doctors now order far more test then they used too and more specialist are involved. I broke my wrist 35 years ago and my family doctor looked at the x-ray, set the wrist, and walked away. Today, the attending physician looks at the x-ray, sends you to your family doctor, who then sends you to an orthopedic specialist. All of these people look at the x-ray and then some joker you never see also looks at and sends you a bill.

    My biggest beef. Why not subsidize the health care of all Americans, not just the poor. Why should I have to pay more because I make more?

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    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Exclamation Well..........

    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    You left out the lawyers who make great deals of money off of frivolous law suits as well. Doctors now order far more test then they used too and more specialist are involved. I broke my wrist 35 years ago and my family doctor looked at the x-ray, set the wrist, and walked away. Today, the attending physician looks at the x-ray, sends you to your family doctor, who then sends you to an orthopedic specialist. All of these people look at the x-ray and then some joker you never see also looks at and sends you a bill.

    My biggest beef. Why not subsidize the health care of all Americans, not just the poor. Why should I have to pay more because I make more?

    My Question is why should you have to pay at all??......... Health Insurance should be optional. Period. If you don't want it, no problem. If you do want it, you should pay for it. (pay for it means paying by Someone, in some form. If it is part of your retirement package, or if you pay yourself, or if your employer pays is irrelevant.)
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    I broke my wrist 35 years ago...
    Repetitive motion will do that to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    My Question is why should you have to pay at all??......... Health Insurance should be optional. Period. If you don't want it, no problem. If you do want it, you should pay for it. (pay for it means paying by Someone, in some form. If it is part of your retirement package, or if you pay yourself, or if your employer pays is irrelevant.)
    We all pay one way or another now. Every person in the US is entitled to health care and can get it free if they can't afford it. Hospitals, Pharmaceutical, Doctors, Insurance companies, and all of the other health care producers of products are in the business to make money. One thing that could be done to cut cost would be to eliminate all of the advertising. I don't need advertising for drugs, hospitals or any of the other stuff. Back on track though, We all pay for those who don't have insurance. And really, their basic needs for health care are taken care of. Those of us who pay get advanced care.

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    MembersZone Subscriber JohnVBFD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    This whole thing is a moot point. The federal government forcing Americans to buy health insurance is unconstitutional. This would be dead before it came close to being enacted.
    Never underestimate the entire governments complete and utter disregard for 95% of the Constitution.

    More importantly, never underestimates the People's utter disregard or care about something being unconstitutional as long as they receive something in the end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    This whole thing is a moot point. The federal government forcing Americans to buy health insurance is unconstitutional. This would be dead before it came close to being enacted.
    George. Think about it man. Whens the last time a Clinton did anything but wipe their @$$ with the Constitution?

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    Default Catching Pigs

    Got this in an email today, somehow, it seems appropriate.

    There was a Chemistry professor in a large college that had some exchange students in the class. One day while the class was in the lab the Prof noticed one young man (exchange student) who kept rubbing his back and stretching as if his back hurt.



    The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country's government and install a new communist government.



    In the midst of his story he looked at the professor and asked a strange question.



    He asked, " Do you know how to catch wild pigs?"



    The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young man said this was no joke.



    "You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming. When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side. The pigs, who are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat, you slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd.



    Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.



    The young man told the professor that that is exactly what he sees happening to America . The government keeps pushing us toward Communism/socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, Tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. While we continually lose our freedoms -- just a little at a time.



    (One should always remember "There is no such thing as a free lunch"; and "You can never hire someone to provide a service for you cheaper than you can do it yourself.)

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    Forum Member Raughammer1's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Wow...now THAT was profound.

    Thanks for the story.

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    Exclamation more info...

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070918/..._ap_interview_

    6&printer=1;_ylt=AhEIpGHgzmLUgd5 FjDVAIMxh24cA



    AP Interview: Clinton on health care By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer
    Tue Sep 18, 12:59 PM ET


    Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Tuesday that a mandate requiring every American to purchase health insurance was the only way to achieve universal health care but she rejected the notion of punitive measures to force individuals into the health care system.



    "At this point, we don't have anything punitive that we have proposed," the presidential candidate said in an interview with The Associated Press. "We're providing incentives and tax credits which we think will be very attractive to the vast majority of Americans."



    She said she could envision a day when "you have to show proof to your employer that you're insured as a part of the job interview ó like when your kid goes to school and has to show proof of vaccination," but said such details would be worked out through negotiations with Congress.


    Clinton unveiled her health care plan Monday in Iowa, promising to bring coverage to every American by building on the current employer-based system and using tax credits to make insurance more affordable.



    She told the AP she relished a debate over health care with her political opponents, including Republicans "who understood that we had to reform health care before they started running for president."



    On Tuesday, Clinton began airing a 30-second ad statewide in Iowa and New Hampshire promoting her new health care plan. The ad reminds viewers of her failed effort to pass universal health care in the early 1990s, trying to portray a thwarted enterprise as one of vision.



    "She changed our thinking when she introduced universal health care to America," the ad's announcer says.



    The ad also highlights her support as senator for an expanded Children's Health Insurance Program and for more affordable vaccines.



    Her health care plan would require every American to buy health insurance, offering tax credits and subsidies to help those who can't afford it. The mandatory aspect of her proposal, however, gets glossed over in the ad.



    "Now she has a health care plan that lets you keep your coverage if you like it, provides affordable choices if you don't, and covers every American," the ad says.



    The ad also continues her campaign's effort to appropriate the mantle of change away from rivals Barack Obama and John Edwards. The word change or its variations appears four times in the ad, which ends: "So, if you're ready for change, she's ready to lead."



    Though her ads are airing in major markets in both states, they are appaearing with greater frequency in Iowa. Polls of voters in New Hampshire show her with a double digit lead over Obama and Edwards, but polls in Iowa show the three of them clustered together.

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