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    Default Yankees - Red Sox

    If its September, it must be time for another Yankees - Red Sox pennant race.

    I don't know how this will end, but the schedule sure favors the Yankees.

    BTW, that acquisition of Gagne by the Red Sox was GENIUS! Pure genius.

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    Default Red Sox will prevail

    A usual, another exciting race for the pennant between the Red Sox & Yankess. Wouildn't want it any other way.

    Give the Yanks a little credit ( ), they have been red hot since the All Star break after a lack luster start. Red Sox pitching has been faultering as of late, but to change tonight with a pitching change. Buchholz to pitch setting up the rotation for the playoffs...Beckett, Matsuzaka & Shilling.

    BTW, that acquisition of Gagne by the Red Sox was GENIUS! Pure genius.
    Maybe in the eyes of the Yankees after blowing the game last night.

    The way Arod has been playing (homeruns)....he looks like a candidate for steroid testing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    If its September, it must be time for another Yankees - Red Sox pennant race.

    I don't know how this will end, but the schedule sure favors the Yankees.

    BTW, that acquisition of Gagne by the Red Sox was GENIUS! Pure genius.
    Its amazing how many Red Sox fans are saying that the recent slide has been due to Manny being out.


    But 4 months ago, when Wang and Matsui were on the DL, and Damon, Mussina, and others were playing hurt, that was no excuse for the Sox to jump out to a big lead, according to those same fans. Unreal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    A usual, another exciting race for the pennant between the Red Sox & Yankess. Wouildn't want it any other way.

    Give the Yanks a little credit ( ), they have been red hot since the All Star break after a lack luster start. Red Sox pitching has been faultering as of late, but to change tonight with a pitching change. Buchholz to pitch setting up the rotation for the playoffs...Beckett, Matsuzaka & Shilling.



    Maybe in the eyes of the Yankees after blowing the game last night.

    The way Arod has been playing (homeruns)....he looks like a candidate for steroid testing.
    Has Gagne done anything since he has been with the Red Sox? My last recollection was he had an ERA of about 9.

    As far as A-Rod, if he hadn't been hitting a gazillion HR's since he was about 12, I would agree. The guy has been a HR hitter his entire career. It is highly unlikely he is using steroids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Has Gagne done anything since he has been with the Red Sox? My last recollection was he had an ERA of about 9.
    Gagne has been pitching pretty good since the acquisition...3W-2L, 4.18 ERA, 16 saves (2nd to Papelbon) & 3 HR's. The bullpen has been stella all year, they seem to be in a rut right now with not getting the job done.

    Its amazing how many Red Sox fans are saying that the recent slide has been due to Manny being out.
    Manny may be a good ballplayer, but I'm not a real fan of his. His attitude, lack of hustle on occasions, and the most minor injuries seem to sideline him when the Bosox need him, just rubs me the wrong way. If the Sox got rid of him tomorrow, wouldn't bother me a bit. Some of the rookies, like Elsbury, have stepped up to the plate and have been playing great ball and are the furure for the Sox.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    Gagne has been pitching pretty good since the acquisition...3W-2L, 4.18 ERA, 16 saves (2nd to Papelbon) & 3 HR's. The bullpen has been stella all year, they seem to be in a rut right now with not getting the job done.



    Manny may be a good ballplayer, but I'm not a real fan of his. His attitude, lack of hustle on occasions, and the most minor injuries seem to sideline him when the Bosox need him, just rubs me the wrong way. If the Sox got rid of him tomorrow, wouldn't bother me a bit. Some of the rookies, like Elsbury, have stepped up to the plate and have been playing great ball and are the furure for the Sox.
    One of the Yankee announcers was talking about this the other night. He was pointing out all the Yankee and Red Sox players that were playing hurt. He stressed how it was the last 20 games of the season and how important every inning is.

    Then there's Manny...

    I hate Manny.

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    Manny's been out on the injured reserve list and has missed the last 20 games...
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    Why is everybody forgetting either team will have to go through Cleveland if they want to win the pennant? By the end of the season, the Tribe will have the best winning percentage in the AL and have home field advantage.

    Now would be a good time for me to practice my "duck and cover drill."
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsdobson View Post
    Why is everybody forgetting either team will have to go through Cleveland if they want to win the pennant? By the end of the season, the Tribe will have the best winning percentage in the AL and have home field advantage.

    Now would be a good time for me to practice my "duck and cover drill."
    Not for nothin', but there are alot of HS teams that could go .500 in the AL Central. Cleveland would be a relief. Anahiem scares the hell out of me.

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    Default News Headline of the Future

    "Red Sox Win The Pennant!"

    Ok, now that I have cast my vote for the 'Sox, I am ready to watch the Yanks and Sox battle it; time to watch a few great games of baseball between the two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsdobson View Post
    Why is everybody forgetting either team will have to go through Cleveland if they want to win the pennant? By the end of the season, the Tribe will have the best winning percentage in the AL and have home field advantage.

    Now would be a good time for me to practice my "duck and cover drill."

    Yankees have swept Cleveland the whole season so far..........
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    Another Yankees-Red Sox pennant race? It just goes to show how much MLB needs to take after the NFL as far as shared revenue and parity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    Another Yankees-Red Sox pennant race? It just goes to show how much MLB needs to take after the NFL as far as shared revenue and parity.
    Wrong.

    If baseball needs to do anything, it needs to encourage the owners to invest their profits back into their team. Why don't you go back to the last several WS champs and runners up and see which ones went to the Series and then had a "fire sale" the next year to get the most value from their "stars". The Yankees and Red Sox ar not afraid to spend money on premiere players.

    But the Yankees, for example, have a plethora of homegrown stars on their payroll. Jeter, Posada, Cano, Cabrera, Hughes, Chamberlain, Phillips, etc. Your argument does not hold water. It also has zero to do with this thread.

    It's a bitch when facts get in the way of your argument, huh?

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    Ya know, I've been a long time Red Sox fan, but I have to admit that George is right. The Yankees invest in their team. They run a quality organization year after year after year...

    I'd rather they lose, but I definitely respect their organization.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post

    It's a bitch when facts get in the way of your argument, huh?

    What facts? The fact that small market teams will never be able to compete with the bank account of teams like the Yankees? I would also be surprised if there wasn't any "homegrown" talent on the Yankees roster, I mean really, how many people live in the metro area? It would be a far bigger story if a star was homegrown and played here. Of course then it would just be a matter of time before the blank check lured them to some other team.

    Revenue sharing and a salary cap would do wonders for MLB, as it has for the NFL. If you look closely at the salary cap, and the rules that make it up, there would be no fire sales after a championship. It would cripple them, as it did to the 49ers and the Cowboys when they wrote out blank checks to guys not worth it. I think that what teams like the Marlins and Diamondbacks did cheapens the game, just my opinion, but it cheapens it. I would also like to see the Yankees try and keep a championship caliber team when they can't just write out a ridiculous check to solve it.
    I think you really need to get outside of the realm of the Yankees, and see what it's like from the other perspective. Not every team has a deep pockets owner who can outbid every other team in baseball. Sure, teams like the Red Sox and Yanks spend a lot of money, because they are in markets that give them a ton of money. I'm quite sure they could out spend every other team out there, except for southern California. I leave out the Cubs because they are just doomed to choke no matter how much they spend .


    What's the matter, afraid of real competition?
    Parity has made just about every team in the NFL capable of being a contender, and it keeps a lot more people interested for a lot longer into the season, and it keeps them in the stands. It would also keep people spending their money on their teams.
    Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of baseball, and love to watch Jeter play. However, if it wasn't for the fact that my team is actually in a pennant race for the first time in 25 years, I probably wouldn't have even watched any baseball after training camp broke. And that fact IS bad for baseball.

    Facts in the way of my argument? Maybe if you live in New York.
    Last edited by jasper45; 09-20-2007 at 05:23 PM.

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    Small market teams or not... all of the major league sports franchises are merely "toys" or "hobbies" for their owners, who have to be mutimillionaire/billionaires in order to "play".
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Small market teams or not... all of the major league sports franchises are merely "toys" or "hobbies" for their owners, who have to be mutimillionaire/billionaires in order to "play".
    I won't disagree with you Chief. I just think there are a few flaws in MLB right now, not a big deal, but some flaws. Believe it, come time for the fall classic, baseball loses a lot of people whose teams never had a shot. Paricularly those who get relegated to watching AAA pitchers brought up to gain some 'experience' in the show.

    It's a great game and a great league, but it could be even better. I don't think there is any disputing that the NFL has it right, and is getting better every year.
    Heck, even my team doesn't have a billionaire owner using it as his little toy for entertainment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    I won't disagree with you Chief. I just think there are a few flaws in MLB right now, not a big deal, but some flaws. Believe it, come time for the fall classic, baseball loses a lot of people whose teams never had a shot. Paricularly those who get relegated to watching AAA pitchers brought up to gain some 'experience' in the show.

    It's a great game and a great league, but it could be even better. I don't think there is any disputing that the NFL has it right, and is getting better every year.
    Heck, even my team doesn't have a billionaire owner using it as his little toy for entertainment.

    I can still get 5 dollar tickets to a Yankee game. Granted, the seats arent great, but its doable.

    Cheapest Giants and Jets tickets are $70...even for preseason.


    Parity is much harder to achieve in baseball, when you have 82 home games, and the Yankees have an average attendance of around 50,000 per game. Why should Steinbrenner have to pay for the Marlins, or any other "small market" team that routinely sells less than 10,000 for a game?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    I can still get 5 dollar tickets to a Yankee game. Granted, the seats arent great, but its doable.
    And here I can get 4 dollar standing room only/obstructed view seats.
    Cheapest Giants and Jets tickets are $70...even for preseason.
    Cheapest face value for a seat in Lambeau Field is $66, I think. Not that you'll be able to get them for face value. I don't think you can compare the face value price straight up. Like you pointed out, there are eight home games in the NFL compared to 81 in baseball.

    Parity is much harder to achieve in baseball, when you have 82 home games, and the Yankees have an average attendance of around 50,000 per game. Why should Steinbrenner have to pay for the Marlins, or any other "small market" team that routinely sells less than 10,000 for a game?

    If you want good attendance and popularity accross the board, shared revenue is a good thing. The reason there are less than 10,000 people at some of these games is because they are 25-30 games out of first place every season.
    I've had that first hand here, and have seen what it's like. This is the first time in 25 years that the Brewers are in a bonified pennant race. The attendance shows it, as well. People are going out to the park, people are buying their merchandise and are generally excited about baseball. It's alot like it was back in '81 and '82, not that I remember it that well being 10, but it was fun.
    It's tough to stay interested in the sport when spring training starts, and you know that your team has no chance at all. It also bites when you know there is no chance for a big-name free agent to sign with your team. Try to consider A-Rod in a Royals uniform, or even theink back to Gary Sheffield's first couple of years in the majors. Do you even know where he played those first couple of seasons? He bragged about tanking plays so that he would be traded.

    I don't know if shared revenue would work. I do know that it works in the NFL. There was a time when the Packers were the wasteland of the NFL. Players went there as a punishment. There were other places as bleak and as desperate as Green Bay was. Shared revenue, salary caps and unrestricted free agency were all tools designed to help make more teams competetive, and improve the league as a whole.
    Take a trip to Kansas City and see how much excitement there is with baseball right now, or Tampa.
    i would think that Steinbrenner would want all of baseball to be more successfull. Maybe he doesn't care, and maybe Yankees and Red Sox fans don't care, I really don't know. If they don't care, then maybe we should just dump all the small market teams out of baseball, and only have 10 or 12 teams in all. That could be another solution.

    I do know that in years past, come September, the Brewers would draw 5,000-10,000 total for those games. This year, with a pennant race in high gear, every home game left is already sold out.

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    Interesting thought. Let's support the "fair weather" fans by forcing good players to go to bad organizations.
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    Interesting thought. Let's support the "fair weather" fans by forcing good players to go to bad organizations.

    How do you ever make a bad organization good, if the bad organization can’t ever make a legit run at marquee players?
    Besides the point that ‘fair weather’ fans have money too. After all, that is exactly what professional sports are all about, making money that is.

    Competition is what keeps people interested in sports, both watching and participating. If your local team can never be competitive, why support them? Like I said, maybe the best solution is to only have the Yankees, and the Red Sox, and the Mets, along with the other major market teams.
    I know if that happened I would have a lot more money in my pocket.
    Last edited by jasper45; 09-21-2007 at 02:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    What facts? The fact that small market teams will never be able to compete with the bank account of teams like the Yankees? I would also be surprised if there wasn't any "homegrown" talent on the Yankees roster, I mean really, how many people live in the metro area? It would be a far bigger story if a star was homegrown and played here. Of course then it would just be a matter of time before the blank check lured them to some other team.

    Revenue sharing and a salary cap would do wonders for MLB, as it has for the NFL. If you look closely at the salary cap, and the rules that make it up, there would be no fire sales after a championship. It would cripple them, as it did to the 49ers and the Cowboys when they wrote out blank checks to guys not worth it. I think that what teams like the Marlins and Diamondbacks did cheapens the game, just my opinion, but it cheapens it. I would also like to see the Yankees try and keep a championship caliber team when they can't just write out a ridiculous check to solve it.
    I think you really need to get outside of the realm of the Yankees, and see what it's like from the other perspective. Not every team has a deep pockets owner who can outbid every other team in baseball. Sure, teams like the Red Sox and Yanks spend a lot of money, because they are in markets that give them a ton of money. I'm quite sure they could out spend every other team out there, except for southern California. I leave out the Cubs because they are just doomed to choke no matter how much they spend .


    What's the matter, afraid of real competition?
    Parity has made just about every team in the NFL capable of being a contender, and it keeps a lot more people interested for a lot longer into the season, and it keeps them in the stands. It would also keep people spending their money on their teams.
    Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of baseball, and love to watch Jeter play. However, if it wasn't for the fact that my team is actually in a pennant race for the first time in 25 years, I probably wouldn't have even watched any baseball after training camp broke. And that fact IS bad for baseball.

    Facts in the way of my argument? Maybe if you live in New York.

    If you want good attendance and popularity accross the board, shared revenue is a good thing. The reason there are less than 10,000 people at some of these games is because they are 25-30 games out of first place every season.
    I've had that first hand here, and have seen what it's like. This is the first time in 25 years that the Brewers are in a bonified pennant race. The attendance shows it, as well. People are going out to the park, people are buying their merchandise and are generally excited about baseball. It's alot like it was back in '81 and '82, not that I remember it that well being 10, but it was fun.
    It's tough to stay interested in the sport when spring training starts, and you know that your team has no chance at all. It also bites when you know there is no chance for a big-name free agent to sign with your team. Try to consider A-Rod in a Royals uniform, or even theink back to Gary Sheffield's first couple of years in the majors. Do you even know where he played those first couple of seasons? He bragged about tanking plays so that he would be traded.

    I don't know if shared revenue would work. I do know that it works in the NFL. There was a time when the Packers were the wasteland of the NFL. Players went there as a punishment. There were other places as bleak and as desperate as Green Bay was. Shared revenue, salary caps and unrestricted free agency were all tools designed to help make more teams competetive, and improve the league as a whole.

    Take a trip to Kansas City and see how much excitement there is with baseball right now, or Tampa.
    i would think that Steinbrenner would want all of baseball to be more successfull. Maybe he doesn't care, and maybe Yankees and Red Sox fans don't care, I really don't know. If they don't care, then maybe we should just dump all the small market teams out of baseball, and only have 10 or 12 teams in all. That could be another solution.

    I do know that in years past, come September, the Brewers would draw 5,000-10,000 total for those games. This year, with a pennant race in high gear, every home game left is already sold out.
    Your argument is so fundamentally flawed on every level, I don't even know where to start.

    Small market teams CAN and DO compete all the time. The size of the market has nothing to do with it. Historically, when a small market team does well, they do wel for one year. After that, with their players market value up, they either unload their players (Florida Marlins) or refuse to invest the money in their team to retain their players (like Minnesota wil do this year).

    If your argument had merit, then ALL large market teams would be in first place and all small market teams would be in last? Look at the Chisox, two years after winning the WS, they suck as bad as a team can suck. Then look at your own Brewers. Small market team in a pennant race.

    If a movie was terrible, woud you go to see it? Usually not. So why would I pay good money to go to watch a MLB team that puts a terribel team on the field? I'm not taking strictly won/loss record alone. I'm taking about a team that can afford to put a better team on the field but do not, solely because of not wanting to spend money.

    There were years that the Yankees were terrible. In those years (early 70's, late 80's , early 90's), they did not put 4 million people in the seats. Good product-good crowd.

    Example out of baseball? The NY Islanders (Potvin sucks). A terribe team in a large market-low crowds. The NY Knicks. A terrible team-low crowds.

    The Yankees DO make all of basebal more succesful. When the Yankees come to Milwaukee, how easy is it to get a seat? They sell out stadiums everywhere they go. Even in places that have to blow the dust out of the hot dog machines in the upper deck due to lack of use. Good product-good crowds.

    The most amazingly ignorant part of your posts are your assertion that baseball needs revenue sharing. Baseball HAS revenue sharing. In 2006, the Yankees paid about $77 million in revenue sharing and uxury tax. That is money handed out directly to the other teams. The Rd sox paid like $51 million.

    I've had this argument with others on here whose starting point for the argument is "the Yankees suck"! The problem comes when they have to base their arguments on fact. They can't do it.

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    Like all sports, baseball goes in cycles. The champion this year is the bottom of the barrel next year. Growing up, the Bruins & Celtics were a dominent force, the Pats were no where to be found and the Red Sox...well you know..."Wait to next year". Now it's totally the opposite.

    Having a big payroll (big name players) is just that. A team wins as a team, not as individuals. Paying high salaries, doesn't guarantee a championship, just a team that should be in contention.

    Since 2000 there have been 7 different teams that have been World Series Champions: Yankees, Diamondbacks, Angels, Marlins, Red Sox, White Sox & Cardinals. Excluding the Yankees & Red Sox the other teams had payrolls significantly less that those 2 teams when they won the WS. These teams had salaries that ranged from $24 million to $130 million less than the Yanks & Red Sox during those years. Meaning they were able to compete and win.

    But we digress from the original topic. The Red Sox are now in the playoffs after their win last night in TB and a Detroit loss. Now if we can only hold on to win the division over the Evil Empire.

    The Yanks are making it interesting at least for their fans. Extra inning games, must be alot of Tums being used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    Like all sports, baseball goes in cycles. The champion this year is the bottom of the barrel next year. Growing up, the Bruins & Celtics were a dominent force, the Pats were no where to be found and the Red Sox...well you know..."Wait to next year". Now it's totally the opposite.

    Having a big payroll (big name players) is just that. A team wins as a team, not as individuals. Paying high salaries, doesn't guarantee a championship, just a team that should be in contention.

    Since 2000 there have been 7 different teams that have been World Series Champions: Yankees, Diamondbacks, Angels, Marlins, Red Sox, White Sox & Cardinals. Excluding the Yankees & Red Sox the other teams had payrolls significantly less that those 2 teams when they won the WS. These teams had salaries that ranged from $24 million to $130 million less than the Yanks & Red Sox during those years. Meaning they were able to compete and win.

    But we digress from the original topic. The Red Sox are now in the playoffs after their win last night in TB and a Detroit loss. Now if we can only hold on to win the division over the Evil Empire.

    The Yanks are making it interesting at least for their fans. Extra inning games, must be alot of Tums being used.
    This will be one interesting week. The Yanks have Tampa Bay and Baltimore. The Sox have the Twins and I think the A's. That schedue heavily favors the Yankees. Especially if the Yankee bats keep on pounding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    This will be one interesting week. The Yanks have Tampa Bay and Baltimore. The Sox have the Twins and I think the A's. That schedue heavily favors the Yankees. Especially if the Yankee bats keep on pounding.
    The Sox finish up with TB today, then 2 with Oakland, finishing up with 4 against the Twins. It will be an interesting week, none of the opposing teams are laying down, they are not going out without a fight.
    Last edited by onebugle; 09-23-2007 at 09:51 AM.

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