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  1. #1
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    Default Load releasing hitches

    Hey, everyone this is my first post, I was wondering what everyone uses for load releasing hitches, I'm currently using the Hoaky Hitch, however I've also seen the radium releasing hitch, and the mariners, any thoughts on why one is better than another?


  2. #2
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    I prefer the radium, followed by the hokie. Purchase the test paper on the Rigging for Rescue website. It's full of great information.

    I don't use the mariners do the lack of throw in the manufactured versions.

  3. #3
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    I don't know the Hoaky Hitch. I prefer the Mariners, but then again we make our own.

    Anthony

  4. #4
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    What is the hokey hitch. I believe we use the mariner's hitch. Never knew the name before. I have step by step pics of anyone is interested as well.
    Jason Brooks
    IAFF Local 2388
    IACOJ

  5. #5
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    I prefer the Mariners, but then again we make our own.

    I hope your not making it from standard nylon webbing. Under a shock load the device will fuse and become inoperable.

    Not to talk down on the mariners, but there are other LRH's that work a much better.
    Last edited by jmatthe2; 09-22-2007 at 09:42 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default radium vs. hokey

    Jmathe, why do you prefer the radium over the hokey, is it for the extra length that you can get, just curious my one problem with the radium is that is it open ended and if you let go it's gone, oh no it's a swarm of bees

  7. #7
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    The mariners should only be used in a main line system as it does not have any shock load capability as previously mentioned.

    A belay line system must have some type of shock load capable load releasing hitch, such as the hokie hitch, radium release hitch or BC hitch (british columbia).

    I would have to agree with jmatthe2 in regards to purchasing the report and to stay away from pre-sewn mariners. Very little adjustment for them in main lines. As far as belay lines go, I would recommend the radium or the BC. In NY we teach the BC hitch at the state level, although the program hasn't been updated in years, and the documentation is very strong on the radium (which we used exclusively in my old job)

  8. #8
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    Forgive the ignorance, but I can not find any info on the hokie hitch. Would someone send me a picture, or diagram, or a link of where to find information on it.

    We wrap our mariners out of piece of 'anchor strap' webbing. i can not remember the correct name for it right now. It is thicker/wider than your standard webbing with a 'D' ring sewn on each side.

    We use the Mariners hitch out here pretty much exclusively. This is what is taught by to our local fire departments and company emergency response teams as part of our state curriculum.

    As for our belay/safety line, we do not use a LRH device at all. There is a double prussik wrap on it and that is it. The LRH device is only used on the main line. As for the mariners and shock loads, maybe I am at a loss here; but, I have 'locked' up the mariners in training and we have always been able to loosen it up enough to continue using the main line.

    Where can I find this report that jmatthe speaks of?

    Thanks!
    Anthony, a rope technician in training.

  9. #9
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    OK, now I am confused. I guess we don't use a Mariner's hitch. We tie ours with 3/8" rope. Here is a picture of what we use attached. What is this one called? I have step by step pictures of this one. Also, we use a LRH on all haul/lower lines as well as belay lines. You never know what will lock up, get stuck or need to be lengthened for any reason.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Jason Brooks
    IAFF Local 2388
    IACOJ

  10. #10
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    Default Hokey

    JBRescue, this is a form of hokey hitch that is used in mountaineering, there is a very comprehensive book called Freedom of the Hills which shows this form of hokey in it, how does this work with 11mm static line I would think that it would be very stiff to release unless your using rope with a very good hand there, also I believe that in this version of the hokey that it is open ended meaning if you let go the rope will release completely out of the carabiners and drop the load, I've found another version of the hoakey that uses 8mm line and it has at least 2 pieces of 8mm on each bend to keep the safety rating high and is also a closed system if your interested I can make a series of pictures for you however it is a little more difficult to tie

  11. #11
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    That's a Larson LRH.

  12. #12
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    Thanks a bunch
    Jason Brooks
    IAFF Local 2388
    IACOJ

  13. #13
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    The LRH study is available at http://www.riggingforrescue.com/ under publications. These folks have done a lot of testing and are all around great people.

    JBRescue, you are using what appears to be a variation of the radium release although with much larger rope. 8mm is all that is needed for a load release.

    AFD020, I am assuming you mean you use a mariners LRH to place on the main line to pass a knot or whatever. Even though the shock load potential may be minimal, I still have found the mariners to be too short of a throw. (Unless you hand tie with webbing)

    bolt109, the radium does not have all the wraps. With a hokie you have to unwrap the whole thing and either undo some of the passes, or force rope into it to get the load to move. I do not have that issue with the radium.

    You're correct in that the radium is not wrapped to pass the whistle test while in use. However, think about this. 1. Adding the "Safety Wrap" in the hokie limits its throw tremendously. 2. We should be using a two rope system. No matter which rope you are using the LRH (Main or belay)on the other rope should be locked off. So it really doesn't matter if someone lets go of the LRH because the load should be locked before releasing begins if at all possible.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=jmatthe2;867832]The LRH study is available at [url]
    JBRescue, you are using what appears to be a variation of the radium release although with much larger rope. 8mm is all that is needed for a load release.
    QUOTE]

    We are very fortunate to have a rope guru in our area. While he will not call himself and expert the rest of the country probably does. He does all of his own testing and research and goes to all of the major conferences. Now the he is retired, this is what he will specialize in. That being said, this is why we use 10mm or 3/8" rope in our BC load release hitch that was created by Arnor Larson.

    The original hitch was taught and probably still is with 8mm cord. The testing has proven that the 8mm LRH breaks at about 3800# with a slow pull test. That would make that one of the weakest parts of our systems. The same hitch tied with 10mm rope breaks between 6000 and 7000# for the same test. That is why we use the 10mm cord. The other adantage is that we use the same cord for out body cords.

    We all have body cords and can turn them into and LRH on the fly or vice versa. So, I will stick with our 10mm cord LRH's.

    They also tested the hitches with webbing. When these get loaded, the webbing can fuse or fail due to the heat of friction that is created. All systems that we use have been tested and broken prior to us using them. We are always looking for better ways to do the job, we just happen to be fortunate enough to have someone to test it for us.
    Jason Brooks
    IAFF Local 2388
    IACOJ

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    JBRescue, I would be interested to know your guys name as I am originally from central Ohio about 30 miles east of Columbus. Email me at technicalrc@comporium.net.

    I am not doubting your sources, but let me make a few comments. Based on testing data that I am familiar with (Rigging for Rescue) the BC LRH was an acceptable performer. One specific peice to note though is that the BC hitch used in the rigging for rescue study was made from 8mm cord and had a static breaking strength of 37.1 kN or around 8,300 lbf. This is significantly higher than the breaking strength your guy noted. I would be interested to see his test method and data.

    I see one major flaw in the LRH you are using. The rope is way too big for the carabiners. A Carabiner should be loaded no further than 1" from its major axis. With the 3/8" rope, the carabiner is loaded nearly to its gate. I would suspect (depending on the strength of the carabiner) that in fact the carabiner is the weakest link in your system.

    I am not trying to sway your policy and procedures, or talk you into using another method, just ginving some feedback. Again, I don't want to sound like I am doubting your sources, but I have seen a lot of people do unscientific, "scientific" testing.

    I am also curious as to why you use 10mm cord as body cord. I have heard 7/16" and 1/2". My department keeps about 10-20 footers of 1/2" on the ladders for various uses.

  16. #16
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    We use 20 or 30 foot 3/8" rope for personal body cords for all sorts of uses. Edge protection, overhead safety lines, etc. I will email you directly.

    Thanks for the insights.
    Jason Brooks
    IAFF Local 2388
    IACOJ

  17. #17

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    Default Creating load release hitches

    I am a firefighter in a large urban department. I recently attended the department's special operations school. However, at no point during our training were we taught load release hitches.

    Can anyone guide me to where I can find information on how to create a load release hitch and its applications? Preferably, a free online guide would be great.

  18. #18
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    Default where to find them

    Quote Originally Posted by dropthetank View Post
    I am a firefighter in a large urban department. I recently attended the department's special operations school. However, at no point during our training were we taught load release hitches.

    Can anyone guide me to where I can find information on how to create a load release hitch and its applications? Preferably, a free online guide would be great.
    Drop tank what department are you with? It is very supprising to me that this was not part of the curriculum. What level did they train you to operations or technician? Anyway I have not found a good website but your local library should be able to get any book that you are looking for you may have to wait a couple of days but it's still free, I would suggest Engineering Practical Rope Rescue Systems by Mike Brown, High Angle Rescue Techniques by Tom Vines and Steve Hudson, or Rope Rescue for Firefighting I can't remeber who wrote this, also there is a pocket guide that is pretty neat called Technical Rescue Riggers guide by Rick Lipke, again sorry I could not find a website, I'm sure you have read all of our discussion and there are obviously numerous different thoughts but I think must would agree either the Radium Releasing Hitch (a little more user friendly but open ended) or the Hokey Hitch (more difficult to tie but won't releasing completely if let go) hope this helps

  19. #19
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    Here are step by step pictures for the BC hitch.
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    Jason Brooks
    IAFF Local 2388
    IACOJ

  20. #20
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    Question

    I believe that there was a symposium held in Golden, Colorado with in the last year or two. One of the items that was presented was in regards to the Load Releasing Hitch, Radium Release Hitch, Mariners Hitch / Hokie Hitch and their use in Rope Rescue. I believe there was some in depth info that should be reviewed by alot of rescuers. Some Rescuers may wish to look at the Aztek Kit from Rescue Response Gear. This has alot of uses and can be used for such work as mentioned in this discussion group.



    Regards AKUS911

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