1. #1
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    Default Firefighter Rescue?

    This post is just basically a question to all with any insight.Let me first start off by saying that Ive beemn a full time paid inner city FF for 10 yrs so its not nessasary to talk "simple" for me ok?
    The question is with all the "down FF" drills going on im looking for some creative ideas with the "old FF falls in hole and needs to be recued.
    Situation
    5 personel
    1 rope bag
    maybe a hose line,maybe not
    maybe a caribener or two
    victuim unconscience

    We know the hose drill and the good old handcuff deal. what else you got to maybe help the raisers or a way to get both victiem and rescuer out at same time with the above items and MAYBE som basic hand tools. any ideas would be appreciated and actually tested out.

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    We've had some success (along with the options you mentioned already) with knocking a hole in a sheetrock wall and putting the rope through that looped on a haligan bar. Then 2 guys on the other end of the rope for lowering/lifting. 1 guy goes down the hole and "attaches" the downed guy. The 2 guys lift, the remaining guy pulls him to the side of the hole, then lower the rope back down for the rescuer in the hole.

    By putting the rope through the hole and held by a haligan (or 6' hook) no one has to be on the other side of the rope so less manpower is needed.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Have you never seen the simple rope loop knot used for lifting people verticaly?
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    Each time we've trained on this, I've wondered how the floor will support another firefighter going in or the weight of the victim coming out. In training the hole is cut in the floor in a safe location, but this won't be the case in a real emergency unless we make a new "safe" hole to conduct the rescue through. The floor had to be compromised in the first place, so we could be inviting another FF to fall in. That being said, some sort of high-point rescue would be an idea, though seemingly too time consuming. I think this is one of the reasons we keep going back to the hose line loop being sent down. It's quick and "easy", where the hose is readily available. Bringing a ladder in to put down the hole also works well when their readily available.

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    Would an attic ladder or a 14' roof ladder help? If you can fit one in the space across the floor, it might help distribute some of the load so that other men can work in the same area as the hole with potentially less risk of expanding the hole and losing another guy. The ladder could also be used as an anchor point for a rope going down into the hole. Turn the ladder on its side on the floor, crossing a doorway. Anchor the rope to the ladder, the lower into the hole.

    Would that work at all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Each time we've trained on this, I've wondered how the floor will support another firefighter going in or the weight of the victim coming out.
    You Hit The Nail On The Head. Does anyone carry a folding or articulating ladder? We do carry one on our rescue. One of the above ideas pointed to a three point or hoist approach. Could a folding ladder be made to work as a high point in a pinch?

    Great question, just never trained on it past using the hose to lift a man up.

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    Default Pull the door off and use it to distribute load

    We have trained FFs to pull the door off and lay it on the floor. This will help distribute the load on a weakened floor. This would allow you to drop one rescuer down the hole to evaluate injuries and ensure air supply. As said earlier, cutting a safe hole from an adjacent room would be the safest way to pull victim and rescuer out. At a worst case scenario you could pull a second door off for both lifting teams to stand on while they raise the victim.

    I have used a attic ladder to create a high lift with the rope attached to the ladder. This allows you to use leg strength to lift instead of your arms.

    By the way, take the time to practice this blindfolded (hood turned around backwards). The hole is essentially going to create a chimney allowing the room to fill up with smoke and steam. You wouldn't believe how confusing this rescue is without the use of sight. It drives home the point that one person must be in charge and everyone must listen to that person.

    Hope this helps. Stay safe.
    Last edited by traumawave; 09-29-2007 at 07:36 PM.
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    You can also use 2 hooks resting on the shoulders of a kneeling FF on each side of the hole to create a high point.
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    Default Through the floor rescue with a rope (W Method)

    Ok, here's a new one for you. Take the rope and stretch out 5 arm lengths, tie a figure 8 knot and clip a carabiner in the knot. Now stretch out 10 arm lengths and tie another figure 8, put a carabiner in there. On each of the carabiners you have two lengths of rope, one for each of the four ffs and the 5th will be the rescue man. Connect the carabiners to the rescue ffs SCBA harness and lower rescuer into hole. Once rescuer gets to bottom he transfers carabiners to downed ff and the four above lift ff to safety and then send the line back for rescuer. Works really well and no tying knots in the dark and smoke. You will find the larger carabiners work well. If you have any questions let me know.

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    ffpm82, I am not understanding what you are doing at all. Got some pictures or drawings or something?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Default The W Method

    If anyone is having trouble with this email me and we'll get you squared away.

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