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  1. #1
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    Default Does your FD use ICS/NIMS?

    As you all should know, I have been having an on-going debate on another thread over using the ICS/NIMS system. Can you please reply with your State and whether or not your FD uses ICS/NIMS? Thank you.


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    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
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    Yes we do. Wisconsin has a statute for it.

    Basically we are forced by the Fed if we want federal money for highways, projects, and grants.
    Jason Knecht
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    As soon as you let us know what FD you work for, the sooner you will get answers...

    How about it , Kiddo?
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 10-06-2007 at 10:56 AM.
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    Most departments in CT began using ICS about 20 years ago; predominantly the NFA Model ICS which preceeded NIMS but with a few preferrring the slightly different IMS (Brunacini) model system. Today you'd be hard pressed to find any department in the state that doesn't use a NIMS compliant ICS.

    Of course if you're looking for departments that use ICS, the obvious example is FDNY which has been using ICS for quite some time. (Even though there are indications that some of its lower ranking members remain unaware of it.)

    According to Peter Hayden, Chief of FDNY, in a written statement to NIST dated 11/22/04:

    FDNY subscribes fully to the letter, policy and principles of ICS. The Department utilized ICS long before National Incident Management System (NIMS) and the Governor's Executive Order of 1996 prescribed it. We have trained and are continuing to train extensively in the use of ICS and base all operational plans around it.

    Source http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/n...ent_112204.pdf
    Gonzo, you're still chasing irrelevant information. Finding out what department DD4 or anyone else belongs to may satisfy your curiosity but it has zero relevance to the discussion.
    Last edited by DeputyMarshal; 10-06-2007 at 09:53 AM. Reason: typo
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    I do not think it is irrelevant. Inquiring minds want to know if we are getting admonished by a whacker wannabe, a rookie who read a few books and is suddenly an "expert" on ICS/NIMS or a jake with line and/or command experience.

    All we know (by his own admission, unless he has deleted his posts like he has done on "the other thread" to cover his tracks) is he is from a 2 firehouse FD somewhere in California, which explains why some of his views are "Californicated" (apologies to the Red Hot Chili Peppers).

    Perhaps he comes from a department that dosn't do a damn thing to put out the fire until each and every vest in his ICS/NIMS command structure is filled, including chief cook and bottle washer...
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 10-06-2007 at 11:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Perhaps he comes from a department that dosn't do a damn thing to put out the fire until each and every vest in his ICS/NIMS command structure is filled, including chief cook and bottle washer...
    Do they come under operations or logistics?
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    We use ICS that fits our department daily. We'll use NIMS when we goto another jurisdiction, that is what NIMS is designed for. It was not meant to be used with events that are handled locally.

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    While the larger goal of NIMs involves inter-jurisdictional responses, NIMS is required for everyday use too.

    From FY07 NIMS Compliance Metrics: Tribal/Local

    Compliance Requirement: Adopt NIMS at the community level for all government departments and agencies; as well as promote and encourage NIMS adoption by associations, utilities, non-governmental organizations (NGOs) and private sector incident management and response organizations.

    Compliance Requirement: Incident Command System (ICS): Manage all emergency incidents and preplanned (recurring/special) events in accordance with ICS organizational structures, doctrine and procedures, as defined in NIMS. ICS implementation must include the consistent application of Incident Action Planning and Common Communications Plans, as appropriate.

    These are just two of the requirements for local governments that were to be in place last week.
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 10-06-2007 at 12:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexfd5 View Post
    We use ICS that fits our department daily. We'll use NIMS when we got another jurisdiction, that is what NIMS is designed for. It was not meant to be used with events that are handled locally.
    We also use ICS on a daily bases and have for many years.

    My question to lexfd5 is this. If you have a large scale incident that utilizes not only your department but many other agencies, do you not then switch or use a form of NIMS. Example: Tornadoe rips a wide patch through a portion of Lexington and then on into the county. Which would then involve your Emergency Management office. This would then not only be local but involve others. This is a serious question since you said you only use NIMS when you go to other areas.

    T.J.

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    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    For the record, we use ICS on each call. It can as simple as the company officer at a medical call stating he has command or as complex as it has to be.

    My take on NIMS... the feds took something we have been using for years and "bureaucratized" it to the point that those who have been using ICS for years look at it and say "what the frack?"...

    and yes, we are NIMS compliant...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    I do not think it is irrelevant. Inquiring minds want to know if we are getting admonished by a whacker wannabe, a rookie who read a few books and is suddenly an "expert" on ICS/NIMS or a jake with line and/or command experience.

    All we know (by his own admission, unless he has deleted his posts like he has done on "the other thread" to cover his tracks) is he is from a 2 firehouse FD somewhere in California, which explains why some of his views are "Californicated" (apologies to the Red Hot Chili Peppers).

    Perhaps he comes from a department that dosn't do a damn thing to put out the fire until each and every vest in his ICS/NIMS command structure is filled, including chief cook and bottle washer...
    But if the "whacker" is right, then what difference does it make? I personally think every department uses ICS, just some don't understand ICS and therefore think they aren't using it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    For the record, we use ICS on each call. It can as simple as the company officer at a medical call stating he has command or as complex as it has to be.

    My take on NIMS... the feds took something we have been using for years and "bureaucratized" it to the point that those who have been using ICS for years look at it and say "what the frack?"...

    and yes, we are NIMS compliant...
    Very well said.

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    For those of you who think that you have to "fill in all the vests" before any
    action is taken you are sadly mistaken and have no real understanding of the ICS system and how it works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Remthedays View Post
    We also use ICS on a daily bases and have for many years.

    My question to lexfd5 is this. If you have a large scale incident that utilizes not only your department but many other agencies, do you not then switch or use a form of NIMS. Example: Tornadoe rips a wide patch through a portion of Lexington and then on into the county. Which would then involve your Emergency Management office. This would then not only be local but involve others. This is a serious question since you said you only use NIMS when you go to other areas.

    T.J.
    We cover 280 square miles city, suburban and rural so even when it gets out into the county it is still ours. I think the difference in my thinking is that dealing with the police, streets and roads, sanitation, parks and recreation, etc...is not a separate agency. We all work for the same jurisdiction. We all have department heads that report to commissioners who then report to the mayor. So dealing with what is normally thought as "other agencies" is not a big deal. If we need something from another division there is no liaison needed since our paychecks all come from the same place. Maybe because we work well across the different departments is why I don't see it as an issue. All that stuff is handled at a level way above my pay-grade.

    Thank you for pointing out an error in my earlier statement. We do use NIMS also inside when dealing with outside agencies (those not local government.) We did so last August when the plane crashed. So oops on me.

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    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    We use a form of command. I've never seen a staging officer, a logistics officer, nor a finance division. We don't use sectors, nor branches, nor strike teams, nor task forces.

    The person in charge of the call is called "Command". Engine officers report to command, truck officers report to command. Engine companies know their assignments based on SOP's and Truck companies as well.

    If you want to call that using ICS, go right ahead.

    As for NIMS, on paper, you bet we follow it. I always have a JIC, JIS, and all my town employees and staff up to speed.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Been using ICS at the VFD since 1995 (officially), used some form of it for years before that.

    Been using ICS at work since I've been there (2000), but also years before that.

    Both departments are NIMS compliant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    For the record, we use ICS on each call. It can as simple as the company officer at a medical call stating he has command or as complex as it has to be.

    My take on NIMS... the feds took something we have been using for years and "bureaucratized" it to the point that those who have been using ICS for years look at it and say "what the frack?"...

    and yes, we are NIMS compliant...
    We're the same way, both departments. And I concur 100% on the NIMS stuff. While we're NIMS compliant, we've adapting NIMS into our ICS system, not the other way around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by devildog4 View Post
    For those of you who think that you have to "fill in all the vests" before any
    action is taken you are sadly mistaken and have no real understanding of the ICS system and how it works.
    There are those FD's who do just that. Your arguement should be with them.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    How many establish command on all single engine responses? We are supposed to establish "command" on all responses, but unless it's a multi-unit response with someone who can be a committed IC, I think it's just a word and doesn't mean a damned thing. It's kind of hard to run "command" when you're with your crew doing your job as a line officer. The reason I bring it up is that in my department, establishing command immediately as the first unit on the scene is like some frickin' holy grail, or something. I think it's a waste of time and just a little silly. And it's a little silly as well to "pass command to the next arriving unit" when you know damned well there isn't a "next arriving unit" for that call.

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    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
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    I guess I'm not familiar with the history of this thread starter..........

    hmmmm............
    Jason Knecht
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