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    Default Twenty year old cop kills six

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/08/wis...ef=mpstoryview
    Deputy fired 30 shots from rifle in killing 6, officials say
    Story Highlights
    NEW: Gunman went to party to make up with ex-girlfriend, friend tells newspaper

    Off-duty deputy used police-style AR-15 rifle to kill six, officials say

    One person also injured when deputy opens fire at party, officials say

    Mother of 14-year-old victim: "I don't want to believe it"

    CRANDON, Wisconsin (CNN) -- An off-duty sheriff's deputy used a police-style AR-15 rifle to kill six people at an early morning party in a small Wisconsin town, officials said Monday.

    Twenty-year-old Tyler Peterson had gone to the party early Sunday to make amends with his ex-girlfriend, a friend of Peterson's told The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

    Peterson lost control after people called him a "worthless pig," Mike Kegley told the paper.

    Peterson left and got a police-style AR-15 rifle from his truck, forced his way back into the apartment and fired about 30 rounds at about 2:45 a.m. (3:45 a.m. ET). Six people were killed; one person survived and is hospitalized, Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen said at a Monday news conference.

    Peterson was killed in a shootout with law officers Sunday afternoon after negotiations for his surrender failed, officials said. The town's mayor said Tyler was killed by a SWAT team sniper.

    The dead and wounded were all students or graduates of Crandon High School, and Peterson was a graduate of the school, which has a little more than 300 students.

    Witnesses said the victims ranged in age from 14 to 20, and one was apparently Peterson's former girlfriend.

    Peterson's family, in a statement read by Bill Farr, a pastor, expressed condolences to the victim's relatives and said they could not find any reason for the killings.

    "We are grieving for your losses. We are very sorry for what has happened. This huge tragedy has deeply affected everyone, including us. We also feel a tremendous amount of guilt and shame for the horrible acts Tyler committed. This is not the Tyler we knew and loved," the statement read.

    Jenny Stahl said her daughter, Lindsey, was the youngest victim. Watch the victim's mom describe her grief »

    "I don't want to believe it. I'm waiting for somebody to wake me up," she said. "She's only 14 -- she'll be 15 next month; she's just starting to live. And the sad thing is who killed her -- a cop. Cops are supposed to always protect you, I thought, and it's one who took my daughter and how many other people's lives."

    It was the high school's homecoming weekend.

    Friends of the victims said Peterson also worked part time as a Crandon police officer.

    Residents near the scene of the shooting told the Associated Press it was hard to accept that a police officer was the shooter.

    "The first statement we said to each other was, 'How did he get through the system?' " David Franz told the AP. "How do they know somebody's background, especially that young? It is disturbing, to say the least."

    The town's schools were closed Monday, with grief counselors available to students, said Superintendent Richard Peters.

    "This was the kind of scenario where every small town in the USA says, 'This could never happen here,' " Peters said.

    Crandon, a town of about 2,000 people, is 220 miles north of Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

    Crandon Mayor Gary Bradley said the town will work together to get over the tragedy.

    "There's a lot of people weeping and gnashing their teeth and the emotions are very raw right now," Bradley said. "But we'll rebuild brick by brick."

    Forest County Sheriff Keith Van Cleve called the situation "very difficult" for his deputies and the community.

    Karly Johnson, 16, told the AP she knew the shooter.

    "He was nice. He was an average guy -- normal. You wouldn't think he could do that," Johnson said, adding that Peterson had helped her in a class and had graduated with her brother, according to the AP.

    The state attorney general's office will investigate the case, Van Cleve said.

    Kevin St. John, a spokesman for the state Department of Justice, said the agency's criminal investigation unit routinely investigates cases of a "statewide or significant nature."

    CNN's Susan Roesgen and Katherine Wojtecki contributed to this report.

    Copyright 2007 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report
    This is a sad story, which makes me wonder why our society trusts a kid to have the temperment and responsibility to be a Police Officer before he is old enough to drink. How can we decide a person with a life out of H.S. of just two years can be given the trust and authority of such a possition in the community? Frankly this is why we really need higher pay for public servents, so that folks with real life experance to temper their emotions can afford to take these jobs with out going three steps back in the financial ladder. I know this can't be blaimed just on the LEO profession, so George don't say I am cop bashing, but to take a kid right out of H.S. or very shortly removed, and put him in the academy where you are taught not to take gruff from anyone, and give him 24/access to weapons is not that smart of a move on the part of society. I am very glad that this is such a rare, almost non-existant, occurance, but I am also a little surprised it does not happen more, all things considered.
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    So because one unstable person screws up we should blame all 20 somethings?
    You don't want them to be cops at 20 but we can send them to wars at 17 with a parents approval?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFDNJFF View Post
    So because one unstable person screws up we should blame all 20 somethings?
    You don't want them to be cops at 20 but we can send them to wars at 17 with a parents approval?
    A 17 year old at war is under constant supervision and turns in his firearm upon return from the war zone. I know of no 20 year olds who have the true maturity of a 25 year old, although I do know a few 25 year olds with the maturity of a 20 year old. Point is we do not have enough information on any 20 year old to make a good judgement on their ability to handle the responsibility that goes with being an LEO. An LEO is out on the street often with minimum supervision, a Marine or soldier is directly over seen by a superior who is watched over by another superior. So yes, the exception should force us to re-look at our rules.
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    I find that strange that they allow people to become police officers and carry weapons before the age of 21... Of course, if they are a nut job and aren't caught in the interview process no age is going to change that.

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    I give this thread 1 more page before it turns from a "Young Cops Should Not Have Guns Thread" to a "See!!!! Thats Why Explorers Should Not Be Firefighters Thread".


    Then I'm gonna give it 6 pages before the WebTeam locks it down, and 8 people get banned.


    *ducks for cover*

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    Does anyone know what the WI hiring practices are?

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    George.

    Are you now considered "Old Enough" to start a career as a LEO? Or should you wait another few years?

    I find that strange that they allow people to become police officers and carry weapons before the age of 21
    By 21 I had been driving a deadly weapon for 5 years legally, and had completed 1 /12 years of military service.

    Get over yourselves, he was 1 person who spun out.

    A 17 year old at war is under constant supervision
    Yeah, right.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace View Post
    A 17 year old at war is under constant supervision and turns in his firearm upon return from the war zone.
    It really helps when you have a group of 17 year olds at war, that are supervised by the lone 18 or 19 year old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    It really helps when you have a group of 17 year olds at war, that are supervised by the lone 18 or 19 year old.
    Show me that unit where the SSgt and the Lt. is only 18 or 19... And like I said, we don't let the soldier/Marine take the weapons home either. I know of atleast one jurisdiction that instituted the degree requirement, not to make their officers smarter/better educated, but to get around a ruling that they could not put a minimum age over 18 years old. If society has deemed a kid under 21 too immature to drink, how can they be deemed mature enough to hold such an awesome responsibility within society?
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    Irrelevant post
    Last edited by MarcusKspn; 10-09-2007 at 03:17 PM. Reason: Irrelevant Post

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    Well I'm 20 but I'm sure that makes me very immature according to Dennis but I have handled firearms in the past and I believe that I am mature enough to have good gun safety and I would never use a weapon on another person. If I was an LEO or in the military I would of course change that opinion but I, personally would never even point an unloaded weapon at another living thing. Just because this guy was off his rocker doesn't mean that everyone under 21 or 25 or whatever age you deem appropriate shouldn't be allowed to become an LEO. I wonder what you would have said about this had the guy been in his 30's or 40's. Age had nothing to do with it. He took multiple lives, he's old enough at 20 to know what he was doing was wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    George.

    Are you now considered "Old Enough" to start a career as a LEO? Or should you wait another few years?



    By 21 I had been driving a deadly weapon for 5 years legally, and had completed 1 /12 years of military service.

    Get over yourselves, he was 1 person who spun out.



    Yeah, right.
    I have one big problem in starting my career over again at 48. I simply don't care anymore.

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    I'll make just one mild statement and then grab my helmet and duck for cover.

    That same said 17 or 18 yr old soldier who has a SSgt or Lt looking over his shoulder in time of war only has those "4 Eyes" looking at him for as long as they are both living. We all know of stories in which both the Lt and the Sgts got "whacked" and it was up to the jr guys to get themselves out of whatever ****e they were in. I contend that in time of war all bets are off on who is how mature. A soldier either grows up real quick or .... well we all know the alternative.

    As for the content of the original post, all I can ask is how good was his psychological background checks?

    Ok. Running for cover now.
    Last edited by MalahatTwo7; 10-09-2007 at 03:47 PM.
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    Rick.

    If you want a real beasting try this.

    I wonder if he had been a Police Explorer?
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    Rick.

    If you want a real beasting try this.

    I wonder if he had been a Police Explorer?
    Now that is a direction even I would not have taken this dicussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalahatTwo7 View Post
    As for the content of the original post, all I can ask is how good was his psychological background checks?
    Apparently not very good, but than again besides a poly they did not have much of a history on the guy to go on. If the guy was 25, 30, 40 I would say that the department screwed up in the background, or in supervision of the guy. But with such a short time that this guy had been able to live out from under his parents' roof, there is just not enough time to make a reasonable assumption on the guy either way.
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    But with such a short time that this guy had been able to live out from under his parents' roof, there is just not enough time to make a reasonable assumption on the guy either way.
    And I think this is the $64.00 statement to this story. A very unfortunate turn of events for all concerned in any case, and not one that I would wish on any parent/brother/sister etc.
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    Actually, this was the first question I had. Yesterday, I heard he was on the SRT. It seems like there is a lot to be asked about local standards.

    BTW, those Soldiers go through a helluva lot more training than anyone in law enforcement. The ones designated to do most of the killing have to endure a lot of additional pressure and evaluation. Their leaders could be a syoung as 20, but they've usually gone through even more.
    I am a highly trained professional and can find my :: expletive deleted:: with either hand in various light conditions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSmithnotTMD View Post
    Actually, this was the first question I had. Yesterday, I heard he was on the SRT. It seems like there is a lot to be asked about local standards.

    BTW, those Soldiers go through a helluva lot more training than anyone in law enforcement. The ones designated to do most of the killing have to endure a lot of additional pressure and evaluation. Their leaders could be a syoung as 20, but they've usually gone through even more.

    hmmm I could of swore Army boot is only 2 months long and Marines is only 3. I believe Infantry training was only a month or so long also..................

    Most Police Academy's are 6 months long.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    It really helps when you have a group of 17 year olds at war, that are supervised by the lone 18 or 19 year old.
    Only spot you would see something like this is in the reserves.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    I agree that this was a lone kid who "spun out" as Kiwi put it.

    But this incident aside, there is no doubt in my mind that public service providers in all areas are being forced to hire younger, and even softening standards in some communities.

    A perfect example is the RCMP (Federal Police) in Canada. In my job we work very closely together, and I meet all the new rookies very quickly. I have seen the average age of RCMP rookies steadily decline over that last decade, from an average age of 25 or so, to the point where they too are hiring 20 year olds right out of school. They are still well trained, but Depot (Thier Academy) is running overtime just to turn these kids out. I don't know any detachments in our part of the world that are running with a full roster. The Sgt's are the first to admit that they are having to work thier butts off to recruit and retain members. They actually started running newspaper recruiting ads this year, a first for any Police Service I know. And they are relatively well compensated, with the average 4-5yr member easily earning $70+G with OT.

    When I started here 12 years ago, they would often look at my senior team members, aged about 25, and start to recruit them away once they got to know them, and worked with them a year or three. Today, my kids are fresh out of college, and not here a month before they get the hiring pitch.

    I don't know how that can't hurt the quality of candidate at times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcaldwell View Post
    I agree that this was a lone kid who "spun out" as Kiwi put it.

    But this incident aside, there is no doubt in my mind that public service providers in all areas are being forced to hire younger, and even softening standards in some communities.

    A perfect example is the RCMP (Federal Police) in Canada. In my job we work very closely together, and I meet all the new rookies very quickly. I have seen the average age of RCMP rookies steadily decline over that last decade, from an average age of 25 or so, to the point where they too are hiring 20 year olds right out of school. They are still well trained, but Depot (Thier Academy) is running overtime just to turn these kids out. I don't know any detachments in our part of the world that are running with a full roster. The Sgt's are the first to admit that they are having to work thier butts off to recruit and retain members. They actually started running newspaper recruiting ads this year, a first for any Police Service I know. And they are relatively well compensated, with the average 4-5yr member easily earning $70+G with OT.

    When I started here 12 years ago, they would often look at my senior team members, aged about 25, and start to recruit them away once they got to know them, and worked with them a year or three. Today, my kids are fresh out of college, and not here a month before they get the hiring pitch.

    I don't know how that can't hurt the quality of candidate at times.
    This was just in the news .... here's a recent article to back up exactly what you've posted.


    RCMP hits airwaves, web to fill imminent staffing 'gaps'
    Last Updated: Monday, October 1, 2007 | 9:41 AM ET
    CBC News

    Bracing for a major staffing shortage as a wave of officers readies for retirement, Canada's national police force launched a major new hiring campaign on Monday.

    'They're not coming to the doors in the same quantity and quality that they used to.'—Geoff Gruson, executive director Police Sector Council

    For the first time in its 135-year history, the RCMP will use radio spots to draw in young people, as well as the internet and the ethnic press in an effort to diversify.

    RCMP spokesman Sgt. John Nuvoloni said the reinvigorated push to hook in new recruits comes at a time when the force needs to counter a potential staffing crisis.

    "There was a big hiring [initiative] right around the [1976] Montreal Olympics, when many thousands of RCMP officers were hired at that time. They're now the ones who are coming up to the retirement age, and we're trying to fill those gaps now," Nuvoloni said.

    Add to that the fact that the mid-1990s saw deep cuts in the number of new recruits, he said, and there is good reason for the RCMP to attract a new generation of officers.
    Continue Article


    Still, joining the Mounties has become a tougher sell these days, the head of a group that advises police forces on recruitment issues said.

    Not only are young people being drawn to other forces, but "they're not coming to the doors in the same quantity and quality that they used to," said Geoff Gruson, the executive director of the Police Sector Council.
    'Corrupt, biased and prejudiced'

    The RCMP has to cope with a new Canadian reality where young people may find that kind of lifestyle unattractive, Gruson noted.

    "The fact that you have to work shifts, you have to be mobile, you have to be prepared to move to small settlements — Moose Groin, Sask.; Tuktoyaktuk, N.W.T.— you know, the kids today are saying, 'Is that what I want?'"

    Some young people's views of the profession have also changed, he added, especially in light of recent leadership and pension scandals involving the RCMP.

    Gruson said there seems to be more of a tendency among people who shun careers in law enforcement to believe that "police people are corrupt, biased and prejudiced, and abuse their power, and therefore it's less attractive to go into policing," he said.

    RCMP recruiters insist that the recent scandals have not affected their recruiting, but the force is still having to resort to new and novel methods to draw in a new batch of officers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFDNJFF View Post
    hmmm I could of swore Army boot is only 2 months long and Marines is only 3. I believe Infantry training was only a month or so long also..................

    Most Police Academy's are 6 months long.
    16 hour days 6 days a week versus 8 hour days 5 days a week.
    Police Academy = 1040 moderate intensity hours followed by probationary period then indirect supervision in the field where you interact with the American public.
    USMC Boot Camp = 1248 high intensity hours followed by months of MOS Training and direct supervision in the field where you interact with the enemy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace View Post
    16 hour days 6 days a week versus 8 hour days 5 days a week.
    Police Academy = 1040 moderate intensity hours followed by probationary period then indirect supervision in the field where you interact with the American public.
    USMC Boot Camp = 1248 high intensity hours followed by months of MOS Training and direct supervision in the field where you interact with the enemy.
    I was not arguing that either go through long training or trying to take anything away from that fact. The point I was trying to make is most law enforcement training is no joke also.
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    Well since this discussion has heated in the local paper, I see much of the same thoughts and remarks here as well. Crandon is a small town about 2 hour drive north of Green Bay, WI. Many details are not known yet, but the most heated discussions have come about from him being 20, lack of a psych test and being a cop.

    For the most part, him being a cop is irrelevant. Yes he should have known better, he shouldn't have let things get to him and then result in a tragedy, but one doesn't have to be a cop or a firefighter to understand that killing is wrong. This was a person who snapped and such things have happened to people of all career paths and all types of occupations.

    As stated before the area where this happened is rather small. Peterson was a full time Deputy for Forest Co Sheriff and a part time Crandon Police Officer. He was a local kid, having graduated two years before getting on the job. As someone mentioned how could a 20y/o get a job, there is not a lot of people applying for the jobs and even less from those with experience. A small dept like this sees a high turnover of young officers gaining experience while waiting for a job to open on a bigger dept. (Sounds a lot like the fire service...right?) So now you get an applicant with local ties who may stick it out instead of getting experience and leaving.

    As for a psych test and polygraph, neither was done. However, a psych test is NOT going to reveal any mental problems or in any way show that this tragedy would happen. It in no form will show that a person is crazy or has the potential to snap. The test instead is a series of questions on a timed test. There are questions like "I like to analyze data...agree/disagree" then 75 questions later one like "I prefer not to analyze data...agree/disagree". Most questions are things like this and it shows consistency and if the person is being honest and truly answering the questions and not what they think the dept wants to hear. I have been through several psych tests during my time testing so I am quite familiar with them. As for polygraph, I had one of those too and the interviewer stated is is actually easier to have someone confess to a crime than it is to do a polygraph for pre-employment. Would a polygraph identified that this would have happened....NO.

    As for being hired at a young age. Again this was a local kid with local ties and has a better chance of sticking a career out than someone using a podunk town for experience until something better opens. Also in many cases the hiring is out of the hands of those on a dept and is in the hands of a police and fire commission, compromised of folks with little or no understanding about the job of a cop or firefighter. Testing has become so much easier because of frivolous lawsuits and depts have a limited say on who gets hired.

    It may not be what you say, but who you know, but honestly, there are so many tools out there teaching kids exactly what to say to get a job. They pay for the resources and puke back the information a panel wants to hear. Many times one can not truly gauge a person because they are limited on what they can ask.

    To say he was too young is a matter of opinion. IMO 20 is young for a cop or firefighter and I would take someone who worked and lived in the real world over someone straight out of school, but that isn't up to me. However, to say 20 is immature is not the case either and having a minimum age 21 or higher doesn't mean you will get a more mature person. There are Explorers on the explorer/jr FF thread who display more maturity than some FF claiming to have many years in.

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