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  1. #1
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    Question Whats Your Stand

    I was wondering wether or not you beleive that a well trained explorer should be allowed to run the pump at a structure fire in an emergency situation; you arrive at a structure fire with only two certified guys and a explorer who knows his way around a pump. Should that explorer be allowed to run the pump long enough for an engineer or a qualified firefighter to arrive and take over?


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    Quote Originally Posted by btvaine View Post
    I was wondering wether or not you beleive that a well trained explorer should be allowed to run the pump at a structure fire in an emergency situation; you arrive at a structure fire with only two certified guys and a explorer who knows his way around a pump. Should that explorer be allowed to run the pump long enough for an engineer or a qualified firefighter to arrive and take over?
    NO


    make message longer

    I say 4 pages till lockdown. anyone?
    Last edited by jacklrd; 10-17-2007 at 11:38 PM.

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    Forum Member Res343cue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by btvaine View Post
    I was wondering wether or not you beleive that a well trained explorer should be allowed to run the pump at a structure fire in an emergency situation; you arrive at a structure fire with only two certified guys and a explorer who knows his way around a pump. Should that explorer be allowed to run the pump long enough for an engineer or a qualified firefighter to arrive and take over?
    NO.

    In fact, as an Explorer, BSA doesn't cover you doing that....No matter what department policy is, as an Explorer, the BSA will not allow it's group to partake in that event.

    Pumping the rig is no different then driving the rig except that it's not in motion. It's also alot more then just "pulling levers" to make water come out the end of those hose.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
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  4. #4
    Forum Member LADDER2EKU's Avatar
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    In my opinion, No. But only becuase I feel that the person on the pump should have expeirence(sp) on the pipe. That way he can will know what to much or to little pressure does to those on the line.
    Wade Munday

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  5. #5
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    No.

    An explorer doesn't have the experince-based knowledge to work the pump at a working fire. Just my humble opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by btvaine View Post
    I was wondering wether or not you beleive that a well trained explorer should be allowed to run the pump at a structure fire in an emergency situation; you arrive at a structure fire with only two certified guys and a explorer who knows his way around a pump. Should that explorer be allowed to run the pump long enough for an engineer or a qualified firefighter to arrive and take over?
    As the others...ABSOLUTELY NOT.


    Besides the simple fact of allowing an Explorer perform in an emergency situation, negating so many rules, the situation described above is full of holes.

    Only TWO FF's show up. What in the hell are you going to do with THREE freaking guys? They can't go in, negates 2 in 2 out, so there is no need for an Explorer to even be on the pump. You can have one pulling a line to hit the fire from outside and the other on the pump. That is really all you can do.


    There is really no more to argue about what the explorer, jr, whatever can do. Point is with 2 guys, you are not going in, plain and simple. There is no need for argument on my dept does this or that, or we do things different, or wha wha, you don't know what it is like to have little staffing. There is NO job in this situation for the explorer to do, because NO ONE goes in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by btvaine View Post
    I was wondering wether or not you beleive that a well trained explorer should be allowed to run the pump at a structure fire in an emergency situation; you arrive at a structure fire with only two certified guys and a explorer who knows his way around a pump. Should that explorer be allowed to run the pump long enough for an engineer or a qualified firefighter to arrive and take over?
    No........
    Firefighter/EMT
    My words stated here do not necessarily point towards organizations which I am affiliated with.

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    The answer would be a resounding "NO"!!! Is the Explorer in question a trained and competent firefighter??? ...a trained and competent driver/operator??? Short of the training issues, there are legal considerations regarding the age and statutory limitations as well. Has the Fire Chief authorized the Explorer to perform as a driver/operator???

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    Hmmm now I am waiting for Bill Murray and a groundhog to trot past my window.......I mean come on folks haven't we been there, done that, bought the t-shirt and given the t-shirt to charity on these issues!!

    BTW the t-shirt would have to state

    EXPLORER'S - There to be the best darn observers our fireground has ever seen!
    Sponsored bythe BSA!

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    Thanks guys I was just wondering what you guys would or wouldn't do if a situation such as that occured.

    Just as a side do any of you know how to pump a truck in prctice or what have you?

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    I'll give a different opinion and view (Imagine that )

    1. I have seen guys with years of experience that I don't trust to run the pump. I always love that big clunk you get when they just take the pump out of gear before letting the drive stop spinning.

    2. I base my decisions on experience and ability. If I think the person at the pump, no matter what his age, is capable of running the pump and keeping an eye on things, I might help them get it going and make sure they know what they are doing. I also want to know someone else is not to far away. It will also depend on the situation, in an extreme emergency you do what you have to. If I can wait, I will wait. I've been to fires where the first truck pulls in and the two of us are it. I've pulled the line and the driver runs the pump.

    Just my nickel (no longer 2 cents with inflation and all).

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    Forum Member ndvfdff33's Avatar
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    A big negative for me on this one. I'm not doubting anyones ability to run the pump it's just not something I would be comfortable with.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Here in PA, what I think about this particular subject is irrelevant. According to Section 7.3(a)(3) of the PA Child Labor Law:

    No person under eighteen years of age shall be permitted to:

    (i) operate an aerial ladder, aerial platform or hydraulic jack,
    (ii) use rubber electrical gloves, insulated wire gloves, insulated wire cutters, life nets or acetylene cutting units,
    (iii) operate the pumps of any fire vehicle while at the scene of a fire, or
    (iv) enter a burning structure.

    I happen to agree with the Child Labor Law on these points...but it wouldn't matter if I didn't.

  14. #14
    Forum Member Explorer343's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by btvaine View Post
    I was wondering wether or not you beleive that a well trained explorer should be allowed to run the pump at a structure fire in an emergency situation; you arrive at a structure fire with only two certified guys and a explorer who knows his way around a pump. Should that explorer be allowed to run the pump long enough for an engineer or a qualified firefighter to arrive and take over?
    Well, first of all, the driver of the truck is usually the pump operator. Also being an Explorer, I think that we should be allowed to do some things, but operating the pump is definitely not one of them!

    Quote Originally Posted by btvaine View Post
    Thanks guys I was just wondering what you guys would or wouldn't do if a situation such as that occured.

    Just as a side do any of you know how to pump a truck in prctice or what have you?
    As far as what I would do is concerned, I wouldn't be involved with anything having to do with the pump. To be totally honest with you, I am just as eager as most of you are about going to a call and getting my hands dirty. But you have to learn to control your urges or they might just get you in trouble! If you do something that you're not supposed and screw up, your dept. would be held liable, your post would be held liable, and it would just turn into one big clusterf***. Such responsibilities are left up to the big guys for a reason. Plus, whether we like it or not, most of us Explorers are all under 18 y/o so technically we are still considered "children". Children operating a big piece of expensive machinery = possible catastrophe!
    Last edited by Explorer343; 10-18-2007 at 03:11 PM.
    FDNY | 343 | NEVER FORGET

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    1. I have seen guys with years of experience that I don't trust to run the pump. I always love that big clunk you get when they just take the pump out of gear before letting the drive stop spinning.

    2. I base my decisions on experience and ability. If I think the person at the pump, no matter what his age, is capable of running the pump and keeping an eye on things, I might help them get it going and make sure they know what they are doing. I also want to know someone else is not to far away. It will also depend on the situation, in an extreme emergency you do what you have to. If I can wait, I will wait. I've been to fires where the first truck pulls in and the two of us are it. I've pulled the line and the driver runs the pump.

    1. First of that big clunk can be normal for the pump, it is the grinding noise one should worry about. Also sounds like a training issue then if you don't trust them.


    2. To allow an explorer, jr, cadet, to run a pump in an emergency is utter nonsense. In training is one thing if a pump operator is right next to them, but on the fireground all bets are off, the kid doesn't do a damn thing for emergency ops. If there are TWO FF's, you are not going in, so there is no need for a kid to be pumping, period. Even in an extreme emergency you are NOT going in so there is no reason to have a kid pump.

    If you know people are not far away, how do you truly know? They may be 5, 10 minutes out and could get in an accident, could get held up by train, boat, tractor, etc. The ONLY personnel you can count on for being there are those ALREADY there, not who is coming in.

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    How about when someone gets hurt because we let this underage, inexperienced explorer pump? The senior guy or officer is going to take some serious heat for this one. We can't go after the explorer since he is underage. Also, I would have to think that the BSA would revoke the explorer post immediately since this should violate every rule/regulation that they have as well as their insurance. This is not even a can of worms. I think this would be more of a barrel of worms.
    Jason Brooks
    IAFF Local 2388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer343 View Post
    Well, first of all, the driver of the truck is usually the pump operator. Also being an Explorer, I think that we should be allowed to do some things, but operating the pump is definitely not one of them!



    As far as what I would do is concerned, I wouldn't be involved with anything having to do with the pump. To be totally honest with you, I am just as eager as most of you are about going to a call and getting my hands dirty. But you have to learn to control your urges or they might just get you in trouble! If you do something that you're not supposed and screw up, your dept. would be held liable, your post would be held liable, and it would just turn into one big clusterf***. Such responsibilities are left up to the big guys for a reason. Plus, whether we like it or not, most of us Explorers are all under 18 y/o so technically we are still considered "children". Children operating a big piece of expensive machinery = possible catastrophe!
    Who are you and what did you do with explorer 343?

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    Forum Member afrexplorer1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobsnyder View Post
    Here in PA, what I think about this particular subject is irrelevant. According to Section 7.3(a)(3) of the PA Child Labor Law:

    No person under eighteen years of age shall be permitted to:

    (i) operate an aerial ladder, aerial platform or hydraulic jack,
    (ii) use rubber electrical gloves, insulated wire gloves, insulated wire cutters, life nets or acetylene cutting units,
    (iii) operate the pumps of any fire vehicle while at the scene of a fire, or
    (iv) enter a burning structure.

    I happen to agree with the Child Labor Law on these points...but it wouldn't matter if I didn't.


    Uh so is it bad if i have done two of those????

  19. #19
    Forum Member Explorer343's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacklrd View Post
    Who are you and what did you do with explorer 343?
    My question about driving the fire trucks was stupid (looking back on it). I'm just trying to give him the same advice.
    FDNY | 343 | NEVER FORGET

  20. #20
    Forum Member Explorer343's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by afrexplorer1 View Post
    Uh so is it bad if i have done two of those????
    Probably. I wouldn't be posting that on a public forum if it is.
    FDNY | 343 | NEVER FORGET

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