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  1. #1
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    Default FP Grant - Any Address Marker Grants?

    The guidance for the FP grant program states that address marker programs could be an eligible activity under "general prevention" programs. Has anyone had any luck getting a grant for this?

    A second question...would a county ETSB (Emergency Telephone Systems Board) be an eligible applicant for a grant like this?

    Andy


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelican631 View Post
    The guidance for the FP grant program states that address marker programs could be an eligible activity under "general prevention" programs. Has anyone had any luck getting a grant for this?

    A second question...would a county ETSB (Emergency Telephone Systems Board) be an eligible applicant for a grant like this?

    Andy
    Probably not unless they can demonstrate proven successful previous efforts in fire prevention and were a non-profit.
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    Our department applied for an address marker grant in 2006 and got a denial. However, last month we received a call from DHS stating that we would be awarded the grant for address markers. We have just got the award letter.

    ANDY

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    although the address marker idea sounds good, how do you keep up with address markers if your fire district is going rapidly??

    a FP grant question.......we are mulling the idea of applying for a LED scrolling sign for the front of the fire station, the messages will be mostly for fire prevention with a few messages hitting on other various safety issues. has anyone heard of any departments being granted a sign??

    we feel it would be a great way to reach the public 365 days a year...

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelman View Post
    although the address marker idea sounds good, how do you keep up with address markers if your fire district is going rapidly??

    a FP grant question.......we are mulling the idea of applying for a LED scrolling sign for the front of the fire station, the messages will be mostly for fire prevention with a few messages hitting on other various safety issues. has anyone heard of any departments being granted a sign??

    we feel it would be a great way to reach the public 365 days a year...
    we got one with a SAFER grant

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber ktb9780's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelman View Post
    although the address marker idea sounds good, how do you keep up with address markers if your fire district is going rapidly??

    a FP grant question.......we are mulling the idea of applying for a LED scrolling sign for the front of the fire station, the messages will be mostly for fire prevention with a few messages hitting on other various safety issues. has anyone heard of any departments being granted a sign??

    we feel it would be a great way to reach the public 365 days a year...
    What a lot of people are not grasping here is the changes that have occurred in Federal grant programs with the insitution of the new Performance Standards and Measures Act.


    The "Joe Lunchbucket" has started to demand that Congress be more accountable for how their tax money is spent. Resultantly the Federal grant programs are being forced to show the "results and gains" that occurr when giving grant money to others. The FP&S grant's main purpose for being here is to " reduce fire injuries and fire losses". In order to show that the money is reducing that, goals and objectives must be stated, achieved and measured for their impact.

    If your program first cannot document that a true injury and fire loss problem exists, you cannot show need for the money that is available in the program; hence the requirment for a "risk assessment".

    Once the money for the program is awarded you must also be able to document that the money being spent had a positive impact on that very problem ie; reduction in fire injuries and fire losses. That "evaluation process" also has to be completed and reported in a reasonable period of time. Generally within 90 days of the end of the performance period. This is needed so that Congress has the "bottom line" of deciding if additional resources or the existing resources are truly impacting the problem that that grant program was designed and offerred to assist with.

    Therein lies an underlying problem when projects are talking of "educating" the public. It is hard to measure the value or true impact of educational programs. Now this is not a statement against the "need for educational" programs; it only states the problem most of you will face in trying to get funded.

    It is very hard to measure what impact you have had on a child that goes through an educational session with a robot or through a FP Trailer. Your message may not ever be "put into practice" until years later when that child finds themselves faced with a fire event. By then the program performance period has come and gone, there is no way to "quantify" that the dollars spent, achieved the results sought and stated.

    You would have to be able to show first that a true FP prolem exists in the identified targted risk groups. How woudl you show that with a sign? Then you would have to show that the sign is truly making a difference. How do you propose to actually measure that difference and correlate it to the fact that the sign is above you deparment door broadcasting a visual message and was the direct, proximate cause of any positive changes?

    That project might have flown in previous years but, I don;t think it will fly in this current environment. Just MHO; your may vary!
    Last edited by ktb9780; 10-25-2007 at 09:37 AM.
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    If anyone has a copy of a narrative for a scrolling LED sign that was used in the past, I would appreciate a copy of it.

    I'm kinda leary of this like Kurt though. It would be really difficult to provide any measurable benefits.

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    It would be difficult to show benefits even in a performance report. Statistics like the ones we're dealing with generally only get report annually, well after the year has gone. Most annual stats for 2007 for anything didn't hit until 2nd quarter 2007. The ones we'll be dealing with won't be out until long after we closeout, so our goal is sell what could be reasonably measured. The sign, kind hard to prove that it will ever get read, let alone the advice listened to. Robots, handouts, presentations, and the like, you have a captured audience. As Kurt said, attendees might not use the knowledge for years until the unfortunate opportunity presents itself. But it's reasonable to think that people will go home and make changes in their safety lifestyles to avoid some more common things that risk safety.

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    i definately understand the performance report issue....in our community we target grades 1-3, how do we gauge our progress? nearly impossible. our community has experienced 6 fire deaths this year....my idea is to put fire safety messages on the board for ALL ages to see.

    if you are an adult driving by the sign and see the message "smoke detectors save lives - check your detector" and see it 10 times in 2 days, will it make that person check the detector? i don't know, but at least the message was delivered to that person and if that person has 3 school=aged kids in the car with them i bet at least it will be mentioned by someone in that car....

    i thought mabye it would be a great fire prevention tool and would reach countless amounts of people. if you have a open house for fire prevention the number of people that come will be small (usually) and therefore the message only gets out to a small amount of people, you could scoll a specific message for 2 weeks and the amount of people you reach will be FAR greater than the amount of people that showed up at the fire station...

    any other ideas?????

    a sign will reach a hell of alot more people than a robot.....

    another example - you talk to 100 3rd graders about fire safety in the morning then in the afternoon the same 3rd graders attend a puppet show....what do you think they will remember to tell there parents about when they get home? most will talk about the puppets......

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    That's why the robots & puppets work. Kids don't care about seeing us.

    And I'm not disagreeing with a sign as a project, anything to get a message out about prevention and safety. Right next to the road where everyone can see it is always a good spot. But as Kurt and I both allude to, how can you effectively measure how many people read, comprehend, and do something about what they read on a sign. Interactive communication has always proven more effective in marketing studies and education studies, so passive education through a sign will be harder to prove by traditional methods. As long as you have a means of measuring it and can sell it as reasonable, I don't see why it's not a reasonable project.

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    Steelman if your community has experienced 6 fire deaths this year what was the common cause if any? Did these people all have working smoke alarms? Was it one fire or multiple? If multiple fires did any of them have the same cause? What caused these fires and what can your department do to prevent that from happening again?

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    2 separate fires, both homes had no smoke detectors....one fire was an arson but smoke detectors could have alerted the occupants, might or might not have helped.....the other was a candle......

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelman View Post
    2 separate fires, both homes had no smoke detectors....one fire was an arson but smoke detectors could have alerted the occupants, might or might not have helped.....the other was a candle......
    2 separate fires-no working smoke detectors

    Does your department have a smoke alarm campaign?

  14. #14
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    Getting back to the original question (address markers)....could you possibly prove the benefit if you showed an improvement in response times? That would be quantifiable, at least, although it might be difficult to prove that the improved response times made a difference in public safety, etc. Just throwing that out there.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
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    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

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    Could show that, but address markers are only numbers on a street, meaning you would have had to find the street already so no real reduction to find a house number once there. Then again to play devil's advocate, preplanning should be showing block numbers at hydrants and at cross-streets for minimal response times and ISO points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    Could show that, but address markers are only numbers on a street, meaning you would have had to find the street already so no real reduction to find a house number once there. Then again to play devil's advocate, preplanning should be showing block numbers at hydrants and at cross-streets for minimal response times and ISO points.
    I guess everyone's situation is different....we don't really have trouble finding the streets, but once you get on the street (or highway, as it is in our case many times), it slows you down considerably to have to cruise through 8 or 10 houses before you find one with a legible address marker...Not so much a problem on real fire calls (it's the one with the smoke coming out of it...duh ), but on medical calls we often have to backtrack when we realize we just passed the "unmarked" address.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  17. #17
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    Our town enacted a city ordanance which said you must display a blue sign with reflective 4 inch numbers. The FD made the signs and installed them. Resident were charged $12.00 for the signs. This fee was charged on their monthly water bill. We divided the cost over a 3 month period so it would not hurt the residents.
    We have recieved many compliments from other agencies (Sheriff's, EMS, and UPS,) about this.
    We only had 1 compliant and this was from a lady who said she couldd not afford it. The firefighters paid for hers.
    This was about 5 years ago. The FD still makes the signs and now we charge $20.00. We only make around 25 per year. We break even on this.
    But it is a win win for the community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmleblanc View Post
    I guess everyone's situation is different....we don't really have trouble finding the streets, but once you get on the street (or highway, as it is in our case many times), it slows you down considerably to have to cruise through 8 or 10 houses before you find one with a legible address marker...Not so much a problem on real fire calls (it's the one with the smoke coming out of it...duh ), but on medical calls we often have to backtrack when we realize we just passed the "unmarked" address.
    I'm in a similar situation. We don't have much of ap roblem finding streets, but the addresses are a major issue.

    Where we're hurting is that we are just now getting 911 in our county. As a result, everyone's address is changing from "Route X, Box XXX" to a number. Most of our residents don't even know their new address by heart yet, let alone our responders.

    The rural area is where I'm thinking this would be a beneficial program (at least for our jurisdiction, like you say everyone's situation is different). If we had address numbers on the mailbox or pole at the driveway (reflective, visible from a distance), it's going to cut down the searching. Granted, you can usually see a fire from a ways away, but what about the incipient fires and the med calls?

    I'm not particularly looking into this as a project, but it does interest me with the potential.

  19. #19
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    2004 Sebastian County EMS-awarded for county wide project
    smoke alarms
    address signs for houses in the rural areas
    Freddie the Fire Truck and handouts

    county highway depart. made the signs which cut down on the cost
    fire departments installed the signs

  20. #20
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    Sorry! Forgot to mention
    Sebastian County EMS is in Arkansas

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