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  1. #61
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    I was wondering with all of the lawsuits and dumbing down of tests that have been occurring whether or not the feelings towards the Paramedic-crossovers was the same. I understand going through the normal route of competition through the civil service exam, but when the exam has been so dumbed down that all you need is an 8th grade level, it seems like it isn't truly a competition so much as it is a stroke of luck if you get hired or not.

    I'll be up front, my dream job is to work for the city of Chicago. My goal is to work for a major city somewhere, but my dream being in Chicago. I've contemplated and argued a lot over whether or not trying to take the Paramedic route and working there a few years and then trying the promotional exam, it just seems like with the test going as low as having to be decided by your social security number, the best chance for me to get on would be to bust my butt on the ambulance for a few years and then proving I deserve to be there when/if I get to transfer onto the engine.

    I don't know, I understand the reasoning on why crossovers are looked so down upon, but with how politically correct~ridiculous the nation has become I would have thought those feelings would be slightly reduced as long as they could prove they can do the fire job and don't act entitled to anything and prove themselves busting butt in the house and at jobs.


  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    So if you score a 100 on the test, and a minority scores a 66, and he/she gets hired before you, you are ok with it? Because in some places, that is, and has been in the past, by the book.

    Whether its by the book or not, its a scumbag move, especially in the past when one could FAIL 2 events on the physical, simply pass the written with a score of 70, and get hired before someone who got 100 and 100, and who worked hard to get to that point.

    It says a lot about someone's character when they write off anothers opinion and calls guys limpd*cks. Its people with this attitude, laziness, and thinking that the city owes them something that are infesting firehouses.
    I have never heard the written test be explained as anything but a 5th Grade Competency Exam and the Physical as what any fit 18-29 year old should fly through. Has something changed? And if that is an accurate discription, how the heck can you say that anyone who has scored well has really worked hard to get to that point? I just don't see how that person has worked harder than someone that has commited themselves to the EMS Division for a few years first and still taken the enterance exam to get on the job.
    Have you all worked with prior-EMS guys that you did not think would have scored high on the regular exam? I might be totally wrong here, but from what I read and hear, the guys going the "EMS" route are not trying to make up for bad scores, they are just trying to find a quicker route on the job.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace View Post
    I have never heard the written test be explained as anything but a 5th Grade Competency Exam and the Physical as what any fit 18-29 year old should fly through. Has something changed? And if that is an accurate discription, how the heck can you say that anyone who has scored well has really worked hard to get to that point? I just don't see how that person has worked harder than someone that has commited themselves to the EMS Division for a few years first and still taken the enterance exam to get on the job.
    Have you all worked with prior-EMS guys that you did not think would have scored high on the regular exam? I might be totally wrong here, but from what I read and hear, the guys going the "EMS" route are not trying to make up for bad scores, they are just trying to find a quicker route on the job.
    I think you might be refering to the most recent written and the current CPAT.

    Over the past 20 years the physcial was gradually weakened...however the move to the CPAT was equivilant to falling off a cliff as far as required fitness levels go. Until now the most extreme movement was by making the 2002 exam "private" for women taking the exam...thus creating a lack of transparancy and equality(amazing how the pass rate increased when no one was allowed to view the proceedings)

    Formerly by taking the EMS route you could fail events (I know a few people who did this) currently we are supposedly going to use the CPAT (a joke). How the future will unfold..who knows.

    If you want to be an EMT...by all means join EMS. They need qualified people interested in being EMTs...not using it as a short cut and stepping stone to circumvent the open competitive.

    Don't think it shows us any commitment, dedication or whatever you want to call it...all it shows us is that you are out for yourself at any cost and that isn't something we are interested in. Taking advantage of loop holes created by racist council members isn't something that reflects well on ones character.

    We want people who want to be members of the FDNY...not EMS.

    Anyone who disagrees with this view we will gladly send our backdoor failures to your Human resources dept so that they may apply for your Dept...

    Please list an address where these Hairbags may apply too, here:



    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 11-07-2007 at 05:15 PM.

  4. #64
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    Those last two points are what I was thinking. I'd be taking the exact same written and physical exam. From what I understand, I still need that high score. It's just that I get chosen above others with the same score. It's an easy test so it doesn't prove much anyway.

    Also, the open exam is against more people, but what exactly makes them more deserving of the job? When I'm taking out the waiting part by doing EMS, it's just putting me on a bit faster Otherwise I can do great on the test, and still not get chosen because of luck.

    In other words, there really isn't any type of shortcut being taken. If anyone is going through more work, it's those that do EMS first. They are doing everything that they can for the job.

    Sorry that I disagree, but I'm just not able to understand what is bad about this.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by clark918 View Post
    Those last two points are what I was thinking. I'd be taking the exact same written and physical exam. From what I understand, I still need that high score. It's just that I get chosen above others with the same score. It's an easy test so it doesn't prove much anyway.

    Also, the open exam is against more people, but what exactly makes them more deserving of the job? When I'm taking out the waiting part by doing EMS, it's just putting me on a bit faster Otherwise I can do great on the test, and still not get chosen because of luck.

    In other words, there really isn't any type of shortcut being taken. If anyone is going through more work, it's those that do EMS first. They are doing everything that they can for the job.

    Sorry that I disagree, but I'm just not able to understand what is bad about this.
    Listen slow kid....at least until now the "promotional exam" largely allowed those with lesser scores (failed to demonstrate greatest merit and fitness for job) than those in the Open competitive.

    The experiecnes with these "promotional canidates has been an utter waste of my tax dollars as well as a direct insult to those of us who were mentally and physcially prepared for this career and demonstrated greater merit and fitness for the job.

    Showing up physically and mentally prepared and taking the Open competitive shows that you are doing the most for the job...anything else shows you are doing everything for yourself despite the job and its requirements. The easy way out isn't looked upon well here...perhaps your local FD is different.

    They formerly posted in the Dept orders who got appointed from which list...except when the job realized that everyone (Unions...media..etc) was able to see that the failure/drop out rate of these people was astronomical as compared to the open competitive. It would be comical if this wasn't a life and death job.(It can be done now...just with more homework and diligence)

    Furthermore it is documented and can be testified to by those who had these weak azz slugs mixed in with their squads in the accademy. They slowed down the pace of learning and at times endangered themselves and the welfare of the other recruits.

    Persons who pass a physical by failing two events, who are mixed in with those who pass with out breaking a sweat (so to speak) are nothing short of a disgrace to this Department and a liablity to themselves. They should never even be hired...yet political correctness and complicit selfishness puts them there.

    Training has in some cases been modified to accomidate these less than qualified people and in a manner which does a disservice to the learning and training that is to occur at the Rock.

    The comments from you people demonstrate to me that you've never really had your life placed in danger and you've never had to rely on other people in cirumstances such as this. It is funny how most guys on here who see work on a regular basis all agree on these points...and those who live in the woods or want to get on a job somewhere don't understand our position.

    If you are going to be even half as persistant on this issue in the firehouse...perhaps this isn't the place for you. It isn't for you to understand...if you should ever end up in our shoes....you will most definately understand. If you don't want to take our advice for what it is....fine...find out for yourself. I have little doubt we will see you in the orders under the heading "Resignations".

    Accept our way and our methods or go elsewhere...someone else(hopefully from the Open Competitive) will gladly take your place.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 11-07-2007 at 05:39 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    The housing market is HORRIBLE in the New York City Metro Area.

    I'm about 40 miles west in NJ and it's so freaking expensive. I have a smaller home, in the 10 years I've owned it, it has almost tripled in value. Great for me, bad for someone starting out. Also, my property taxes on my smaller home is $5100/year... car insurance on 2 cars is $1800/year... that's only the start.

    Someone else mentioned Cal Fire. Seems like a good move, big department, nice state, lots of opportunity...

    If I was younger and single, that is where I would go too.
    Same situation out here expect everyone if foreclosing on there homes. Only plus out here is the weather. Don't get that false impression that everything is fine and dandy out here in the west.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKDRAFT View Post
    Same situation out here expect everyone if foreclosing on there homes. Only plus out here is the weather. Don't get that false impression that everything is fine and dandy out here in the west.
    I hear ya, but are things as expensive 40 miles east/west of Las Vegas?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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  8. #68
    Forum Member BKDRAFT's Avatar
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    Vegas is actually going through the same problems as Cali right now. Foreclosures through the roof, inflated housing prices, etc.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Listen slow kid....at least until now the "promotional exam" largely allowed those with lesser scores (failed to demonstrate greatest merit and fitness for job) than those in the Open competitive.

    The experiecnes with these "promotional canidates has been an utter waste of my tax dollars as well as a direct insult to those of us who were mentally and physcially prepared for this career and demonstrated greater merit and fitness for the job.

    Showing up physically and mentally prepared and taking the Open competitive shows that you are doing the most for the job...anything else shows you are doing everything for yourself despite the job and its requirements. The easy way out isn't looked upon well here...perhaps your local FD is different.

    They formerly posted in the Dept orders who got appointed from which list...except when the job realized that everyone (Unions...media..etc) was able to see that the failure/drop out rate of these people was astronomical as compared to the open competitive. It would be comical if this wasn't a life and death job.(It can be done now...just with more homework and diligence)

    Furthermore it is documented and can be testified to by those who had these weak azz slugs mixed in with their squads in the accademy. They slowed down the pace of learning and at times endangered themselves and the welfare of the other recruits.

    Persons who pass a physical by failing two events, who are mixed in with those who pass with out breaking a sweat (so to speak) are nothing short of a disgrace to this Department and a liablity to themselves. They should never even be hired...yet political correctness and complicit selfishness puts them there.

    Training has in some cases been modified to accomidate these less than qualified people and in a manner which does a disservice to the learning and training that is to occur at the Rock.

    The comments from you people demonstrate to me that you've never really had your life placed in danger and you've never had to rely on other people in cirumstances such as this. It is funny how most guys on here who see work on a regular basis all agree on these points...and those who live in the woods or want to get on a job somewhere don't understand our position.

    If you are going to be even half as persistant on this issue in the firehouse...perhaps this isn't the place for you. It isn't for you to understand...if you should ever end up in our shoes....you will most definately understand. If you don't want to take our advice for what it is....fine...find out for yourself. I have little doubt we will see you in the orders under the heading "Resignations".

    Accept our way and our methods or go elsewhere...someone else(hopefully from the Open Competitive) will gladly take your place.

    FTM-PTB
    I think you need to slow down a bit on your assumptions. I'm just trying to learn more about this. I never said that I was going to do it.

    I said earlier that I thought that you get placed above people that you did the same as. I did NOT know that they would allow people in that were failing events. Different people were saying different things on here so I don't think you can really blame me for not understanding that.

    I agree that the best should get the job. My only point is what if someone with top scores does happen to come from EMS? The only reason that I considered it as a possibility was because they don't test very often and I may only get one shot because of the age limit.

    I may not have as much experience as you, but I do know the type of people that everyone likes on a crew. I actually got cheated with the whole St Louis test. I spent about $300 going to St Louis, paying for hotel, food, taxi, flight, etc. to find out that the test did not count because of the high failure rate.(on what seemed like a very easy test) Later I found out that over 90% of minorities failed. The Chief actually wasn't even promoting anyone because he said the test was racist. He just got demoted so things should change. Either way, I want the job so I'm willing to spend that money again(that I don't really have since I'm a student) to go back down there to retest when it's given.

    So like I said, it was just a misunderstanding and I'm sorry I upset you. I thought that the EMS people still needed to get high scores on all of the tests to get on. I'm just trying to learn everything that I can to get on at one of my dream departments. I really don't think that you know enough about me to be able to form an opinion saying that I shouldn't be a firefighter, especially when others said the exact same thing.

  10. #70
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    Clark, in one of your posts I think you said something like "If I'm scoring just as high as everyone else, and came from EMS, I don't see what the big deal is" Then you make a point about the length between tests and the age limit.

    Bro, if you think you can score that high on the test, and you are worried about age, join the military. Save your leave time for the next test. Take the next test where you will still be within age AND have vet's preference. If you score as high as you think you can, you will get on. If you don't then hey, take the next test. If you are over age, use your active duty time to bring your "testing age" back down. If you really wanna do emergency medical work, go into one of the MOS medic fields where protocalls are progressive and you dont have to deal with BS calls.

    You are just going to have to live with the "FDNY opinion of EMS" thats the end of it. You can't argue with over 100 years of tradition and thousands of firefighters. If you wan't to be in the FDNY as bad as the rest of us candidates who would lay down in traffic for the job, then start getting yourself in the mindset of the FDNY.
    Last edited by FLA1786; 11-08-2007 at 08:59 AM. Reason: spelling

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by brk2733 View Post
    I'll be up front, my dream job is to work for the city of Chicago. My goal is to work for a major city somewhere, but my dream being in Chicago. I've contemplated and argued a lot over whether or not trying to take the Paramedic route and working there a few years and then trying the promotional exam, it just seems like with the test going as low as having to be decided by your social security number, the best chance for me to get on would be to bust my butt on the ambulance for a few years and then proving I deserve to be there when/if I get to transfer onto the engine.
    Bro, I see you are in Fla, so here is my advise to you. Go get your EMT. Work as an EMT, and become a Medic. Work as a Medic, and get your Fire I/II. Work at the first dept that will hire you. Work your *** off, get in the best shape you can get in, educate yourself on da job. Try out for Orlando, Tampa, Jax, Gainsville, Miami FD. They are big cities. I know that Orlando and Tampa are like big Northern Depts dropped in Florida. I have gone to OFD stations, and TFD stations, met with their Jakes, seen their history. They are on my list.

    FDNY and CFD are unattainable. It sucks, but in reality, for a guy in Fla, they are.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLA1786 View Post
    Clark, in one of your posts I think you said something like "If I'm scoring just as high as everyone else, and came from EMS, I don't see what the big deal is" Then you make a point about the length between tests and the age limit.

    Bro, if you think you can score that high on the test, and you are worried about age, join the military. Save your leave time for the next test. Take the next test where you will still be within age AND have vet's preference. If you score as high as you think you can, you will get on. If you don't then hey, take the next test. If you are over age, use your active duty time to bring your "testing age" back down. If you really wanna do emergency medical work, go into one of the MOS medic fields where protocalls are progressive and you dont have to deal with BS calls.

    You are just going to have to live with the "FDNY opinion of EMS" thats the end of it. You can't argue with over 100 years of tradition and thousands of firefighters. If you wan't to be in the FDNY as bad as the rest of us candidates who would lay down in traffic for the job, then start getting yourself in the mindset of the FDNY.
    See this is what I don't get......if you are willing to lay down in traffic to get on the job, why would you not also be willing to do the craphole job of FDNY-EMS to get the job too? If you would lay down in traffic for the job why would you not put up with any BS opinions to go with another road on to the job? Getting on FDNY-EMS does not keep you from also going the test and wait route. This old Marine just don't understand the FDNY mind set I guess.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  13. #73
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    No one is saying they couldn't work for FDNY EMS while testing, and waiting. What they are saying, is don't use your FDNY EMS time, to take the backdoor transfer approach, because as FFFRED has pointed out, this hasn't been the route for, how shall we say, quality candidates. I don't work for FDNY, and even I seem to be getting this. I'm not sure how some people aren't. If the vast majority of the candidates getting in that way, are under qualified, and have a high liklihood of dropping out, why would you want your name in that pool. If you take the regular test, the regular way, and do as good as you should, and make it on, there is absolutely no way for someone to think you took the backdoor, and weren't qulaified, you just showed everyone you were.

  14. #74
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    umm When is the Next test anyway ?

    I screwed myself up with moving and school and mail wasnt properly changed so i didnt get my info for the test. When is the next open test ?

    and for the guys that are not in the FDNY what other big cities that have decent pay and are hiring right now or will be hiring (where you dont have to be a resident to apply)

    Rob
    Last edited by eaglesrule1024; 11-08-2007 at 05:54 PM.

  15. #75
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    I can't comment on the FDNY test, I don't know, I haven't been keeping up with it, though I thought about taking it next time around.

    I will ask, why limit yourself to "big cities". Some decent sized areas are hiring for decent pay, and they burn just as much as some busy city companies, sometimes more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerry4184 View Post
    I can't comment on the FDNY test, I don't know, I haven't been keeping up with it, though I thought about taking it next time around.

    I will ask, why limit yourself to "big cities". Some decent sized areas are hiring for decent pay, and they burn just as much as some busy city companies, sometimes more.
    True...im looking for decent pay and a dept. that is busy.

    Rob

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    Camden or Detroit. I would leave NYC for them, and of course Yonkers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyirons2 View Post
    Camden or Detroit. I would leave NYC for them, and of course Yonkers!
    O Yeah Yonkers...i know all about it. Im from NYC i Grew up in NYC i went to school for a year in New Rochelle and a buddy of mine is a vollie for one of the depts. i forgot which one though and he said Yonkers would be amazing lol. But the Question is When are they hiring ?

    As for Camden or Detroit when are they hiring ?

    Rob
    Last edited by eaglesrule1024; 11-08-2007 at 10:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyirons2 View Post
    Camden or Detroit. I would leave NYC for them, and of course Yonkers!
    I dont know....I still belive that, as those of us who were on the job before Sept. 11th,2001....it is "Still the Greatest Job on Earth"

  20. #80
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    So how long into a career does the EMS stigma last? The propationary period? Until he leaves his first House? Promotion to Lt.? A former EMS-guy makes it to Chief, is their going to be Jakes out there questioning his commitment and abilities?
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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