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  1. #141
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    So in reality you spend many years in EMS(making jack-sh*t for pay and NOT supporting your family but instead qualifing them for food stamps!)
    Without getting into the other issues expressed here, I find it disgusting that the guys running the majority of FDNY's call volume are so poorly treated.

    You'd hope the FDNY unions would try to help each other out, but maybe not...?


  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    Without getting into the other issues expressed here, I find it disgusting that the guys running the majority of FDNY's call volume are so poorly treated.

    You'd hope the FDNY unions would try to help each other out, but maybe not...?
    What are you talking about? A majority of FDNY's calls? There are two separate run counts kept by the city in reference between the agencies.

    Don't confuse FDNY Engine Co EMS runs with the total amount of EMS runs.


    Also the Unions HAVE been trying to help each other out...by eliminating the promotional exam so that EMS hires and MAINTAINS employee's who want to be EMT's and Paramedics
    Co 11
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  3. #143
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    I guess the big FDNY on the side of the ambulances is just for show, huh?

    Just for comparison's sake ...

    Does anyone know if EMS personnel on other large metro FDs that run transport (Chicago, Dallas, LA City, Pheonix, etc) are part of the fire department or part of what seems to be a seperate but not equal organization like FDNY EMS? Are thier medics firefighters and do they have to go through a fire academy to run full-time on the bus?

    If not, do they have a promontional exam system like the FDNY where they can transfer over to the "fire side" without having to take the general exam and get on the general list?

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Does anyone know if EMS personnel on other large metro FDs that run transport (Chicago, Dallas, LA City, Pheonix, etc) are part of the fire department or part of what seems to be a seperate but not equal organization like FDNY EMS?
    As a general rule, unless your suppression people rotate to the bus and your EMTs do shifts on the engine, most of the big city EMS personnel that are part of a FD are considered to be members of the same department in name, but a completely separate organization in many other ways.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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  5. #145
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    Chicago Fire Department ALS ambulances are staffed by single-role paramedics. They work 24-72 shifts and do no suppression. BLS Ambulances are staffed by Firefighter/EMT's who are detailed.They are not permanently assigned and work 24/48 with every 5th day off as a "Daley" aka "Kelly" day They do no suppression. ALS Engines are staffed by dual-role Firefighter/Paramedics who do fight fires.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Does anyone know if EMS personnel on other large metro FDs that run transport (Chicago, Dallas, LA City, Pheonix, etc) are part of the fire department or part of what seems to be a seperate but not equal organization like FDNY EMS? Are thier medics firefighters and do they have to go through a fire academy to run full-time on the bus?

    If not, do they have a promontional exam system like the FDNY where they can transfer over to the "fire side" without having to take the general exam and get on the general list?
    St. Louis has single-role medics. They do have a promotional exam. In many cases, this route is the ONLY way to make suppression. It's near impossible to get hired off their list.
    Last edited by SFDredhat126; 11-16-2007 at 11:45 AM.

  7. #147
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    Paramedic here, is actually considered to be a 'promotional' position. An exam is given when a paramedic class is going to be run, and firefighter/paramedics earn 5% more than a firefighter. Paramedics here also have more overtime, increasing their annual salary.

    When the meds are on the box, they do no firefighting. We do have about 25 ALS engines (on paper at least) each shift, and they do suppression as well as their paramedic stuff.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFDredhat126 View Post
    St. Louis has single-role medics. They do have a promotional exam. In many cases, this route is the ONLY way to make suppression. It's near impossible to get hired off their list.
    It's nearly impossible to get hired off of the OC list? That sucks because I'm in the process right now. So it's not very good to hear that. haha I'm almost positive I passed that last exam. However, I will never know because too many others failed the elementary level math and reading parts. Over 70% actually. I they are making everyone retest. Sucks because I spent all of that money before on the flight, hotel, and taxi.

    I didn't think it would be TOO hard though because only about 850 took the written. If 70% failed, then only about 255 people passed. If the list lasts 3 years like the last one, then those who make it through the physical and background have a decent shot.

    PM me though if you have any information about what's going on now. Thanks.

  9. #149
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    Default If I had to do it all over again

    After looking at the posts re FDNY, hiring is a mess. The The Port Authority Of NY & NJ Police. Compensation: Starting Salary: $32,361 Salary After Completing Five Years of Service: $83,141 (based on the current contract) The Port Authority treats its cops like royalty. NYPD cops are going there in droves. You don't have to live in the city.
    THE 2007 APPLICATION PERIOD ENDED ON 10/5/07. You just missed it. If you are young enough get your self ready for the next application period.
    The Port Authority Police are also responsible for fire fighting and crash emergency rescue at the three airports and for all other aircraft emergency incidents. Police personnel assigned to fire and rescue duty are highly trained in all phases of these functions including the operation of sophisticated and complex equipment, fire fighting vehicles and water rescue equipment.The Port Authority Police Department opened a state-of-the-art Aircraft Rescue and Firefighting Fuel Spill Trainer Facility at John F. Kennedy International Airport.The facility, one of the largest of its kind in the nation, is used to train Port Authority Police officers in aircraft rescue and firefighting techniques. It allows officers to train for emergency situations in a controlled environment.The centerpiece of the training center is a 125-foot diameter pit that uses clean-burning propane to simulate a fire. It also features a 75-foot-long aircraft mockup with a broken wing section. Computer controls allow for the creation of firefighting scenarios that vary in size, difficulty and intensity.Each year, more than 600 Port Authority officers are cross-trained as aircraft rescue firefighters for the region's three major airports - John F. Kennedy International, Newark Liberty International, and LaGuardia airports.
    Port Authority Police assigned to aircraft rescue and firefighting undergo rigorous training twice a year to achieve and maintain Federal Aviation Administration certification.
    http://www.panynj.gov/AboutthePortAu...thorityPolice/

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    Without getting into the other issues expressed here, I find it disgusting that the guys running the majority of FDNY's call volume are so poorly treated.

    You'd hope the FDNY unions would try to help each other out, but maybe not...?
    Another example of those who have no idea what they are talking about. There are different run counts for EMS and fire (I think they combined them only on paper, such as the Firehouse Surveys, which seem inaccurate anyway) The two sides in this fd are, in effect, two agencies under one department. The unions, contracts,hiring process's, working conditions etc...are completly seperate. So if you are worried about how "poorly treated" ems is, then take it up with their union. You might be surprised to hear, that when this whole "promotion" thing came about, the unions did work togather......to fight against it! Thats right....the EMS union DID NOT agree with it either! They dont want their choosen profession to be a "stepping stone" for people to become firefighters. They want to do ems....and have little interest in firefighting. Many ems workers are vocal about not wanting to be part of the FDNY.

  11. #151
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    eh yeah good call
    Last edited by pipeman3179; 09-23-2008 at 09:49 AM.

  12. #152
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    Thanks pipeman. I already passed up my exam though. I got the letter with such short notice and the exam was Dec. 30. Not sure how I could find a flight with only a week in advance the day before New Year's Eve.

    I'm also completely broke so I had to choose weather to test there(Dec 30) or Los Angeles(Jan 12). Since Los Angeles is for firefighter, I chose to go there.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJ View Post
    Another example of those who have no idea what they are talking about. There are different run counts for EMS and fire (I think they combined them only on paper, such as the Firehouse Surveys, which seem inaccurate anyway) The two sides in this fd are, in effect, two agencies under one department. The unions, contracts,hiring process's, working conditions etc...are completly seperate. So if you are worried about how "poorly treated" ems is, then take it up with their union. You might be surprised to hear, that when this whole "promotion" thing came about, the unions did work togather......to fight against it! Thats right....the EMS union DID NOT agree with it either! They dont want their choosen profession to be a "stepping stone" for people to become firefighters. They want to do ems....and have little interest in firefighting. Many ems workers are vocal about not wanting to be part of the FDNY.

    What he said.

    FTM-PTB

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocVBFDE14 View Post
    What are you talking about? A majority of FDNY's calls? There are two separate run counts kept by the city in reference between the agencies.

    Don't confuse FDNY Engine Co EMS runs with the total amount of EMS runs.


    Also the Unions HAVE been trying to help each other out...by eliminating the promotional exam so that EMS hires and MAINTAINS employee's who want to be EMT's and Paramedics

    Under the old New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation there were many more different routes for promotion in to what else...Health field careers! Imagine that...now outside of "promotions" to limited supervisory poisitions which are as I understand it...grossly abused by patronage and politics...they only have a "promotion" to firefighter.

    They don't run a majority of the FDNY's runs...they have their runs and we run ours...period.

    It is simply amazing how many times it can be explained on here...people just don't want to accept the facts surrounding our job here. I know I've always tried to post accurate information on here for the benefit of everyone that hears the rummors and misstatements about the FDNY and what we do or don't do.

    I guess some of our efforts in that light are in vain. At least some like you Doc are paying attention to the news.

    FTM-PTB

  15. #155
    Forum Member Moediaz's Avatar
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    It is pretty funny how people bash the EMS. To the civilians, I rather have them on the job then people bashing them. They have experience in the medical field, fire scenes, and defidently under pressure. They have there own test to take, and OMG ! They passed that test aswell. If one of them scores lowly on the written test, yet can progress from that, learn alot at the rock and from experience from other firefighters.

    Are you guys really serious thinking what is on the written test is what is exactly going to make you a FireFighter? LOL
    Its a critical thinking test that simulates what any firefighter, we observe does.

    Just by bashing a EMS personal that scores low on the test, which..if you can find me proof that most of them do...then SHUT UP !

    How can you say these guys score low on the test with no proof? Lets say 85% of these guys score 90+ on the promotional test, there laughing there a** off right now at some of you people insults.

    I give my respect to all EMS personal, it isn't an easy job, and they are more then qualified then the people that take the open competive test as of now.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moediaz View Post
    It is pretty funny how people bash the EMS. To the civilians, I rather have them on the job then people bashing them. They have experience in the medical field, fire scenes, and defidently under pressure. They have there own test to take, and OMG ! They passed that test aswell. If one of them scores lowly on the written test, yet can progress from that, learn alot at the rock and from experience from other firefighters.
    It's pretty funny how buffs like you think you know the first thing about competitive hiring...this job or EMS's job. One probably takes an exam to work at Home Depot...but that doesn't mean they are the most qualified to be firemen does it?

    Are you guys really serious thinking what is on the written test is what is exactly going to make you a FireFighter? LOL
    Its a critical thinking test that simulates what any firefighter, we observe does.
    Unbeknownst to you...cognative abilites exams are among the best predictors of future success in any given career field. (LSAT, MCATs...etc.) The test isn't inteneded to "make you a firefighter" The test is intended to see who has the best abilties and has best prepared themselves for a competitive job market and rewards those who are most likely to be intelligent enough out of the group to absorb and apply the skills a fireman must grasp and utilize. Civil service demands competive relevant objective exams..not policial hijacking or patronage.

    Just by bashing a EMS personal that scores low on the test, which..if you can find me proof that most of them do...then SHUT UP !
    Look up the DO's that listed appointments from the OC and the promotion...then look at the pass rates and the percentage drop out rates. List scores are public record...perhaps you should read the Chief-Leader if you are unware of this.

    How can you say these guys score low on the test with no proof? Lets say 85% of these guys score 90+ on the promotional test, there laughing there a** off right now at some of you people insults.
    There is plenty of proof...just because you aren't in the "know" doesn't mean the evidence doesn't exist. It has been mentioned in countless articles, city council discussions and summaries and it has been posted in these forums ad nauseum for years. Pull your head out.

    I give my respect to all EMS personal, it isn't an easy job, and they are more then qualified then the people that take the open competive test as of now.
    They are due the respect of earning their job...however that doesn't entitle them to this or anyother job. You don't know the first thing about what you are talking about...yet you think you are fit to judge who is qualified and not for a city job? That is what OC tests were for. What credentials you must have that you can offer a baseless argument with mistatements and confusing logic and then decide with such certainty that an entire group of people are more than qualified to leap-frog over other people who scored higher than them on an OC exam.

    FTM-PTB

    PS- Care to explain how this is the only "promotional exam" in the city of NY that doesn't take any prerequisite study? To promote...the exam is supposed to be based on information that is in lets say DO's, regulations and procedures...but this thinly disguised "promotion" only test entry level skills and knowledge. Why is that?

  17. #157
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    Hey, nunbnutz
    they are "bashing" they guy who does EMS just cause its an easier route to Fire. The guy who don't care about providing care to the sick and injured. Who just wants da job......at any cost. I reccomend editing your post to reflect that...or you will lose all credibility and respect here....oh, wait, that was last year
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  18. #158
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    What's funny is that everyone is arguing about posts made almost two months ago. One guy came on to share his experience which was nice. I replied saying that I decided against it because no matter what I decided(right or wrong), I wouldn't be able to financially support myself anyway. Then when everyone starts arguing again, it's about posts from the past, not what this guy said.

    My point is, maybe this should just be dropped. It's going nowhere.

  19. #159
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pipeman3179 View Post
    my opinion of EMS since i worked in EMS for some time before i got permanent civil service status and promoted, you want to tell your LTs in the EMS academy that you want queens or SI. unless you're heavily into running EMS calls, then go somewhere more fitted for your interests. im sure there are alot of buff websites out there with EMS records for different boroughs. eventually youll get a rhythm and it wont be a big deal, but its important to get PSC because as a provisional emt you have no shot in taking a promotional exam. we just got a transfer from queens, dude worked in EMS for like 6 years and hated it. Most important thing of all is getting permanent civil service status, and taking the promotional exam. dont listen to alot of BS you get from glory stories and people thinking they're hot. 4 of us in my company use this computer and read the "backdoor" garbage on this website, as well as my cousin who still works in EMS. its all agreed that if you make it at the rock, regardless of what you did before that, youre just as good a firefighter as the other probie who waited 3 years, while you were already uniformed and working in EMS. you wont hear too many guys complaining about how you got on the job, the important thing is that you did it.
    That is what I figured.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  20. #160
    Forum Member Moediaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    It's pretty funny how buffs like you think you know the first thing about competitive hiring...this job or EMS's job. One probably takes an exam to work at Home Depot...but that doesn't mean they are the most qualified to be firemen does it?
    Dear Fred, you have alot of respect in the forums, that is very true. I presented a case against civilians ( people taking the test ) and EMT. Your telling me that a firefighter will not learn how to perform CPR, First Aid and other medical procedures to aid those in help? Your telling me while at the rock, or from experience FireFighters they will not better themselves, the same as a civilian taking a open competitive test? That is basically what i've said. " If one of them scores lowly on the written test, yet can progress from that, learn alot at the rock and from experience from other firefighters."



    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Unbeknownst to you...cognative abilites exams are among the best predictors of future success in any given career field. (LSAT, MCATs...etc.) The test isn't inteneded to "make you a firefighter" The test is intended to see who has the best abilties and has best prepared themselves for a competitive job market and rewards those who are most likely to be intelligent enough out of the group to absorb and apply the skills a fireman must grasp and utilize. Civil service demands competive relevant objective exams..not policial hijacking or patronage.
    What is your argument? You basically defined this method of testing, but didn't agree or disagree with my above post. Is this intended for me and my post, or to state the meaning of the written test as a revelent fact in this subject?

    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Look up the DO's that listed appointments from the OC and the promotion...then look at the pass rates and the percentage drop out rates. List scores are public record...perhaps you should read the Chief-Leader if you are unware of this.
    That doesn't justify anything by means of the raw score of these EMS personal. My objective is to defend those that passed the test with high scores, and get on through the backdoor way. That is what i'm aiming for.


    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    There is plenty of proof...just because you aren't in the "know" doesn't mean the evidence doesn't exist. It has been mentioned in countless articles, city council discussions and summaries and it has been posted in these forums ad nauseum for years. Pull your head out.
    I never said the evidence did not exist, and i'm glad you can pull references out to point that there are statistics to present the passing rates of the EMS personal. Yet there are other people, who are ignorant of these facts, and post without the knowledge or research, but by what others post and say. If that isn't you, then you shouldn't take heed to this post.



    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    You don't know the first thing about what you are talking about...yet you think you are fit to judge who is qualified and not for a city job?
    So now lets go into facts. If I take a average person on the street, and tell him to go aid a bleeding victim in a car accident, who has trouble breathing, and is in shock. Versus a EMS who is trainned to deliver that care, and also firefighters, who are trainned as well to deliever proper care, wouldn't, or shouldn't you agree on the fact, that a EMS personal is more qualified then a average person taking the written test, who has no prior experience in the medical field?
    Last edited by Moediaz; 01-02-2008 at 04:30 PM.

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