FDNY opinion of FDNY EMS

[BLSboy]

Seriously dude, do you conjure up thoughts before posting, or just decide to post the stupidest, most uninformed responses up there?
You want to be a Firefighter?
Shut up.
Listen up.
FFFRED is trying to educate you. Even if that means getting smacked on the nose with a newspaper.

[Moediaz]

Seriously dude, do you conjure up thoughts before posting, or just decide to post the stupidest, most uninformed responses up there?
You want to be a Firefighter?
Shut up.
Listen up.
FFFRED is trying to educate you. Even if that means getting smacked on the nose with a newspaper.

I'm debating my argument, I care what Fred has to say, that is why i'm responding to clearly understand his point of view. I respect him as a forum poster and a firefighter.
He responded to my post, and I have every right to respond to him.
If you would've read, he asked questions....
Thus the symbol "?" being inserted into his posts.
I don't mind being critised or even being told i'm wrong, but I have every right as a forum member to post my view, and also respond to questions that another member through at me.
I'm sure Fred knows I mean no harm or foul in this, and it is a simple debate.
I rather get told i'm wrong for posting facts, but my opinion can be debatable.
Fred posted facts and references, which some in here do not do.

[BLSboy]

I'm debating my argument, I care what Fred has to say, that is why i'm responding to clearly understand his point of view. I respect him as a forum poster and a firefighter.
He responded to my post, and I have every right to respond to him.
If you would've read, he asked questions....
Thus the symbol "?" being inserted into his posts.
I don't mind being critised or even being told i'm wrong, but I have every right as a forum member to post my view, and also respond to questions that another member through at me.
I'm sure Fred knows I mean no harm or foul in this, and it is a simple debate.
I rather get told i'm wrong for posting facts, but my opinion can be debatable.
Fred posted facts and references, which some in here do not do.

OK, let me draw this in crayon for you.

Joe Schmo* wants to work for FDNY Fire. Joe Schmo doesn't feel like waiting like everyone else. He wants to get on....NOW.
He decides to go get his EMT, and work for FDNY EMS. He doesn't really want to work EMS. He does it so he can promote up to FDNY Fire. He then screws over all the people waiting their turn, the right way. He also, because he doesn't really care about EMS, does not provide the best pt care possible. Joe Schmo has a pt that dies.
This is a true story. I have a friend who currently works FDNY EMS, who related it to me.
He tells me stories of how many idiots they take on, who have hopes and dreams of working FDNY fire, and they don't focus on their JOB. Pt care suffers, and they develop the "FDNY EMS Attitude". They think they are better then everyone else, since they want to work FDNY Fire.

*Name(s) have been changed to protect the guilty.

[Moediaz]

OK, let me draw this in crayon for you.

Joe Schmo* wants to work for FDNY Fire. Joe Schmo doesn't feel like waiting like everyone else. He wants to get on....NOW.
He decides to go get his EMT, and work for FDNY EMS. He doesn't really want to work EMS. He does it so he can promote up to FDNY Fire. He then screws over all the people waiting their turn, the right way. He also, because he doesn't really care about EMS, does not provide the best pt care possible. Joe Schmo has a pt that dies.
This is a true story. I have a friend who currently works FDNY EMS, who related it to me.
He tells me stories of how many idiots they take on, who have hopes and dreams of working FDNY fire, and they don't focus on their JOB. Pt care suffers, and they develop the "FDNY EMS Attitude". They think they are better then everyone else, since they want to work FDNY Fire.

*Name(s) have been changed to protect the guilty.

I clearly understand you point, but i'm not fighting for those individuals.
I'm talking about the EMS who score high on the promotional test, does he deserved to be in the mix with those that score low and be bashed because of it?

I..myself learned first about the backdoor way at the FDNY seminars they held, officers...yes FDNY officers told us about the backdoor way and recommended it for us to use to get on the job. Lt, Capts, yes the whole nine yards, recommended that to us. We discussed for about 10-15 minutes about the backdoor way. I talk to firefighters on the street, some say do it if you want the job, while others say no...and shake there head in disgust.
So now there is a problem, from the forums point of view, we have people who are against it, while there are people on the job, who are even officers recommending this action to us, what are we to do?

That is why i'm arguing the point, if a EMS scores high on the test why should he get be bashed with the others who scored low?

[MattyJ]

I clearly understand you point, but i'm not fighting for those individuals.
I'm talking about the EMS who score high on the promotional test, does he deserved to be in the mix with those that score low and be bashed because of it?

I..myself learned first about the backdoor way at the FDNY seminars they held, officers...yes FDNY officers told us about the backdoor way and recommended it for us to use to get on the job. Lt, Capts, yes the whole nine yards, recommended that to us. We discussed for about 10-15 minutes about the backdoor way. I talk to firefighters on the street, some say do it if you want the job, while others say no...and shake there head in disgust.
So now there is a problem, from the forums point of view, we have people who are against it, while there are people on the job, who are even officers recommending this action to us, what are we to do?

That is why i'm arguing the point, if a EMS scores high on the test why should he get be bashed with the others who scored low?

The ones recommending it would'nt happen to be from the Recruitment Unit would they??

I am on the job, and I'll take a former tradesman (Iron Worker, Steamfitter, Construction Worker) any day, before an EMS promotee... In my experience (on this very job) they tend to make the better firefighters.

[53fireman]

I'm not a firefighter, nor will I pretend to be. Yet I run to my window when I hear a truck speeding by, wishing I was on that truck. Oneday I'll be able to say i'm a FireFighter, until then, i'll drain all the knowledge and stories for those that walked before me.

Man, I hope you know what you're getting into with these posts... IF you do ever get hired, remember 12,000 guys can be a real small world...

[nyckftbl]

You can argue your point all you want, but when you make posts such as this, you arent representing yourself or your side of the argument very well:

It is pretty funny how people bash the EMS. To the civilians, I rather have them on the job then people bashing them. They have experience in the medical field, fire scenes, and defidently under pressure. They have there own test to take, and OMG ! They passed that test aswell. If one of them scores lowly on the written test, yet can progress from that, learn alot at the rock and from experience from other firefighters.

If you would rather have a semi illiterate, scumbag squarerooter responding to your apt for a fire, rather than someone who tried his hardest, and practiced for months, if not years to get on, by all means, good luck. ( This statement doesnt mean ANY of us think that all EMS promotees are like that, so stop implying that we do think that. But one scumbag is too many.)

Are you guys really serious thinking what is on the written test is what is exactly going to make you a FireFighter? LOL
Its a critical thinking test that simulates what any firefighter, we observe does.

Is this even a sentence?

Just by bashing a EMS personal that scores low on the test, which..if you can find me proof that most of them do...then SHUT UP !
Brilliant argument. Real mature. How can you expect someone to take your side of the argument seriously when you write like a 12 year old, especially when you have ZERO civil service experience?

How can you say these guys score low on the test with no proof? Lets say 85% of these guys score 90+ on the promotional test, there laughing there a** off right now at some of you people insults.
The people who do score well on the test, have learned to keep their mouths shut about it, dont brag about it while still on EMS, and act according once they are on the job. we arent talking about those. We are talking about the vocal minority that has failed physical events in the past, score a 72 on the written, and still got hired before the open competitive. These are the types that are scumbags in the firehouse. If even ONE of those gets through, its a problem.

I give my respect to all EMS personal, it isn't an easy job, and they are more then qualified then the people that take the open competive test as of now.
WHY?

[FFFRED]

I clearly understand you point, but i'm not fighting for those individuals.
I'm talking about the EMS who score high on the promotional test, does he deserved to be in the mix with those that score low and be bashed because of it?

I..myself learned first about the backdoor way at the FDNY seminars they held, officers...yes FDNY officers told us about the backdoor way and recommended it for us to use to get on the job. Lt, Capts, yes the whole nine yards, recommended that to us. We discussed for about 10-15 minutes about the backdoor way. I talk to firefighters on the street, some say do it if you want the job, while others say no...and shake there head in disgust.
So now there is a problem, from the forums point of view, we have people who are against it, while there are people on the job, who are even officers recommending this action to us, what are we to do?

That is why i'm arguing the point, if a EMS scores high on the test why should he get be bashed with the others who scored low?

Who are these officers? Are these the same ones who belong to an organization that has openly campaigned for the expansion of subjectivity and patronage on this job and who's members were found guilty of malfecence in a promotional exam in the 1980s?

Those aren't the best people to take advice from.

As for the EMS promotees who score well...there is no reason to champion their cause in conjunction with the promotional...if there was no promotional they would get on the job just as everyone else on the top of the list would...however that isn't why the promotional is there and everyone knows it. It is to allow people of certain groups that for what ever reason have convinced the powers that be that they as a whole are slighted by a competitive hiring process that only measures cognative abilities and relevant physical fitness.

You are young and apparently easily led by some of the less than upstanding members of our job. (I wonder why they aren't in a firehouse and are working LD assignments while FD...some firemen they are.) Don't buy the BS argument...if someone can measure up in a competitive exam...there is no reason to give them a backdoor...period.

FTM-PTB

[Moediaz]

Thanks Fred, I don't know if they were part of an organization. I only remember them, two were in white shirts, the officers and one a veteran on the job for 15 years or so at the seminar. They told us about the backdoor way. I completely see the reasons why the backdoor way is frown upon, yet some individuals can become great firefighters by doing so, if they don't abuse the privaledge and forget there present job of being a EMS.

To Nyc, I understand, my posts seem a bit rude and not well thought out, but I hope you get the idea of what i'm trying to say.

Matty, I bet those people are, but a EMS personal can also measure up to them if they really want the job. Were all taught the techniques at the rock.

What if a person scored one point higher then me on the test, and goes in the academy before me, does that make him smarter then me?

[jakesdad]

Thanks Fred, I don't know if they were part of an organization. I only remember them, two were in white shirts, the officers and one a veteran on the job for 15 years or so at the seminar. They told us about the backdoor way. I completely see the reasons why the backdoor way is frown upon, yet some individuals can become great firefighters by doing so, if they don't abuse the privaledge and forget there present job of being a EMS.

To Nyc, I understand, my posts seem a bit rude and not well thought out, but I hope you get the idea of what i'm trying to say.

Matty, I bet those people are, but a EMS personal can also measure up to them if they really want the job. Were all taught the techniques at the rock.

What if a person scored one point higher then me on the test, and goes in the academy before me, does that make him smarter then me?

"No where in your rambling incoherent response did you come close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. We are all dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul. "

[ndvfdff33]

Man, I hope you know what you're getting into with these posts... IF you do ever get hired, remember 12,000 guys can be a real small world...

I second this post. Never know if some of these guys who you are arguing with, or whatever you are trying to do here, could end up being your boss or co-worker some day. It would be a damn shame if you ****ed them off and it came back to bite you in the butt.

[Moediaz]

What is done is done. I'm satisfied with the debate, and Fred ( like always ) comes and clears everything up and showed me where my thinking was wrong. My opinion is my own, I didn't offended nor insult anybody. I asked questions to a specific person, he alone.

No more posting in this topic for me, i'm not going to add gasoline to this so-called fire.

[CGR650]

How is it fair for people with family in the department to get on the job with FDNY "easier" but not fair for FDNY EMS to take the promotional exam? To clarify, I am not referring to any situation where someone who lost a loved one gets a few extra points on the test, and I apologize for not being clear. I am talking about the people who get hired because they have a living family member on the job. And you all know someone on the job who only got hired because of his/her family ties and not because of test scores. We've all heard "It's all about who you know" before. Personally I think that is more of a back door approach. I also want to point out that you can't just get hired by EMS and take the promotional exam. You have to wait and work EMS first. In the time you wait until you can test you will deal with so much BS and far worse pay. I'm sorry but I do not see dealing with all that EMS deals with as being an easy way on the job.

[nyckftbl]

Obviously its been a few years since the last post on this topic but I had one question. How is it fair for people with family in the department to get on the FDNY "easier" but no fair for FDNY EMS to take the promotional exam?

Oh thats right, its not fair but its accepted so why can't people just accept EMS taking the promotion!?

What in Gods name are you talking about?

[nameless]

are you talking about legacy credit? That isn't FDNY specific, that is a civil service rule in the entire state. Are you really that petty to get mad because the child of a fallen firefighter is getting a hand in following in their father's footsteps?




If you want to complain about something complain about the other ways of getting extra points on the exam.

[FFFRED]

Obviously its been a few years since the last post on this topic but I had one question. How is it fair for people with family in the department to get on the FDNY "easier" but no fair for FDNY EMS to take the promotional exam?

Oh thats right, its not fair but its accepted so why can't people just accept EMS taking the promotion!?

What are you talking about?

I hope you aren't refering to the legacy credit.

FTM-PTB

[MattyJ]

How exactly is it easier for someone with family on the job to get on??? Please explain! Nothing could be further from the truth! Even the Chief of Department cannot get his kid bumped up list.Your test score determines your list number, and you are hired when they reach your list number.Learn about what you're talking about before you post on here!

[LtTony]

Dont be a moron. Go get a job somewhere out West where they actually pay you. Forget about moving here from WI to get a maybe. If I could do it all over again I would be out West or in Florida where you can buy a house and enjoy yourself .

As I live and work on the West Coast, I've always wondered the same thing. Yeah, I'd like all the fires. But long-term comfort, prosperity, quality of life, safety, etc. would bring me back here, where we have a bunch of guys escaping the midwest weather and the East Coast uh, conditions.

[ffbam24]

Obviously its been a few years since the last post on this topic but I had one question. How is it fair for people with family in the department to get on the FDNY "easier" but no fair for FDNY EMS to take the promotional exam?

Oh thats right, its not fair but its accepted so why can't people just accept EMS taking the promotion!?

Not very good at math are you?
1/2/08 and 3/28/09 is NOT a "few years".

Now what are you talking about?
You sound...bitter.

[FDNY73]

I think that being FDNY EMS first is acceptable. I plan on doing it myself. I also think going the traditional way is acceptable too. Either way, its fine. I have talked to FDNY guys, both EMS and Fire (recently). And 99.9% of them I talked to said the backdoor way and the people who go backdoor are accepted in the FDNY just as someone who went the traditional way. They said that it shows dedication and commitment to joining FDNY Fire. A quote from an acutual FDNY Firefighter I talked to, "If someone is willing to give up 1-4 years of their life as an FDNY EMS member, they should be rewarded with being eligible to join FDNY Fire faster. Whether that means hauling lazy drunks to the hospital or getting sh*t on by Firefighters, they put up with it, they should be rewarded for it."

Now I'm not saying the traditional way is bad, that is fine. But we shouldn't look down on and critizise the people who go the EMS route.