Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 46

Thread: Explain this...

  1. #1
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    81

    Default Explain this...

    Check this out:

    http://www.firecamera.com/index.cfm?...=4&PageNum=232


    Any thoughts, ideas, explainations?


  2. #2
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    On a Hill, overlooking George's Kingdom
    Posts
    2,576

    Default

    Im not going to comment (yet) on the tactical side of the video. Too many questions, and too many possible extremely boneheaded moves. I will comment, however, on the two COWARDS who ran off the front porch while their brothers were possibly getting roasted inside.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Panorama, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    3,022

    Default

    Well I'll comment. Some classic faux-pa's there.

    1. PPV initiated after initial attack. Fine if the interior guys have called the fire out, and you're just venting smoke, but obviously it wasn't out. Can't point the finger without more detail though.

    2. Fan too close to the door. You cannot possibly cover the entire door opening and maintain a good 1-way vent from only 3 feet away.

    3. As a result of 2, the air just circulated and fanned the flames (likely fire in the roof space?), and didn't vent out the desired opening. No telling if the rear opening was adequate or even open yet either.




    Cool video though. A good addition to the library.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    1,017

    Default

    The sad part is, the guy who put it on the web site seems very proud about what happened.

    WOW! One of the best videos we have posted on our website so far! Four firefighters become completely involved in a flashover, during a live-fire exercise. Due to strict use of PPE, mandated by the Training Chief and Safety Officer, only one small first-degree burn was suffered. Watch as a firefighter starts up a positive pressure ventilation fan and the flashover occurs.

    Good job on the PPE, too bad as much attention was not paid to NFPA 1403.

    I usually do not comment on tactics, but interior and exteror ops at the same time and a backup line not ready at the point of entry. . .not a good thing.

    I'm glad the guys inside escaped unharmed. I hope the two that ran away like little girls while the guys were still inside are doing something safe, like running a fund raiser or washing apparatus.
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 10-30-2007 at 06:40 PM.
    -------------------
    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
    -----------------------------------------------
    Genius has its limits, but stupidity is boundless.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    81

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mcaldwell View Post
    Cool video though. A good addition to the library.
    I wasn't able to capture it for download. Any tips?

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Panorama, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    3,022

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by masterFF View Post
    I wasn't able to capture it for download. Any tips?
    The Mozilla Firefox Browser has a video capture feature in it. Try that, but you may need to download the player too (or find a file conversion program online).
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ

  7. #7
    Forum Member len1582's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    N.J.
    Posts
    1,392

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Im not going to comment (yet) on the tactical side of the video. Too many questions, and too many possible extremely boneheaded moves.
    I wondered why the guy who took the line onto the porch had to stand practically in the fire and obstruct the guys crawling out of the oven. Guess the stream wouldn't reach 10 ft.

  8. #8
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    Wow.......... Unbelieveable...... Talk about some bad decisions........
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

  9. #9
    Forum Member RyanEMVFD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    Why? It's not like you're going to visit me! But I'm near Waco, Texas
    Posts
    2,386

    Default

    Never saw a RIT team on standby or a crew with a charged line on standby.
    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
    IACOJ Attack

    Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.

  10. #10
    Forum Member FDAIC485's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeast aka Dixie
    Posts
    653

    Default

    Well, It was obvious that the fire was starting to go underventilated prior to them starting the fan. The smoke starting to darken was tell-tale of this fact. The future of the incident is in the smoke.
    Last edited by FDAIC485; 10-30-2007 at 09:10 PM.
    I believe them bones are me. Some say we are born into the grave. I feel so alone, gonna end up a big ol' pile a them bones

    -J. Cantrell

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    81

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mcaldwell View Post
    The Mozilla Firefox Browser has a video capture feature in it. Try that, but you may need to download the player too (or find a file conversion program online).
    I already have the conversion program and just downloaded mozilla. Just can't figure out how to snag the video. Any other advice?

  12. #12
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    '77..................have we seen this before ? RIGHT ????????? looks familliar.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    1,017

    Default

    Click on Tools, then Add-Ons. Look for the link "Get Extensions"

    I use both Download Helper and UnPlug-do a search to find them from the extension page.

    They will download and install to FireFox. When you restart the browser after installation, the icons will appear in the top menu bar. You can now surf YouTube, killsometime.com, stupidvideos.com and many others. I have a 4 gig USB drive full of videos from these sites.
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 10-30-2007 at 10:08 PM.
    -------------------
    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
    -----------------------------------------------
    Genius has its limits, but stupidity is boundless.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,111

    Default

    I don't like to comment and Monday Morning QB on things like this either.

    What were the guys doing on the side with the hose? Where was it aimed?

    And yeah, the two guys running off the porch and ditching their guys inside ******es me off. Thank God for that last guy to actually pull the hose out and help those guys, then knock the fire down.

    Other comments kept to myself about the whole fan thing. Not going to tear down another department.
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

  15. #15
    EuroFirefighter Batt18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    509

    Default

    You guys make me die LOL

    How are you 'tearing down another department' by commenting on the obvious tactical implications in this video! We should be doing this all the time here ... it is not MMQB!

    FDAIC485 is right on the button with his comments ...

    • The firefighters failed to assert any control over their entry point
    • The smoke was increasing in volume and velocity
    • The smoke appeared to be darkening - under-ventilated
    • The use of PPV was pre-attack but post entry - BAD!


    What might cause such an event of Rapid Fire Progress?

    • The vent outlet was not made prior to PPV
    • The vent outlet is too small
    • There is a closed door between the fire and the vent outlet
    • The venting point could be wrongly located geometrically
    • There could be fire or flammable gases in the attic


    Besides that I am sure there may be several violations of 1403 .... this video is a definite learning tool without having to critique the actions of individuals or organizations.

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Loco madidus effercio in rutilus effercio.
    Posts
    12,837

    Default

    Going to have to wait till I get home I guess. Video wont load here...
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  17. #17
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    On a Hill, overlooking George's Kingdom
    Posts
    2,576

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Batt18 View Post
    You guys make me die LOL

    How are you 'tearing down another department' by commenting on the obvious tactical implications in this video! We should be doing this all the time here ... it is not MMQB!

    FDAIC485 is right on the button with his comments ...

    • The firefighters failed to assert any control over their entry point
    • The smoke was increasing in volume and velocity
    • The smoke appeared to be darkening - under-ventilated
    • The use of PPV was pre-attack but post entry - BAD!


    What might cause such an event of Rapid Fire Progress?

    • The vent outlet was not made prior to PPV
    • The vent outlet is too small
    • There is a closed door between the fire and the vent outlet
    • The venting point could be wrongly located geometrically
    • There could be fire or flammable gases in the attic


    Besides that I am sure there may be several violations of 1403 .... this video is a definite learning tool without having to critique the actions of individuals or organizations.
    As someone who has never used PPV, are you implying that in order to use ppv correctly, entry cannot be made unless it is to operate a handline?
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  18. #18
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,673

    Default

    Anyone, other than me, think the PPV had very little to do with anything?

    Doesn't look like he actually got the fan running.
    NO change in the smoke pattern when the fan was supposedly starting.
    No movement of the fan blades when he moved it off the porch.

    I think the big issue here is the guys on the side with the stream going in from an outside point. I think the fan had very little to do with anything.

    There is a closed door between the fire and the vent outlet
    I missed seeing that in the video.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  19. #19
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,283

    Default

    I have to disagree, Bones. It appears that the fan was the direct cause of the mishap. In fact, at the 10:11:30 mark, you can hear the fan start to run immediately after his first pull on the cable. Within seconds, the conditions within the occupancy change for the worse.

    I would like to know if the only means for the smoke & flames to vent once the fan was started was a window or door on the "D" side where we see that outside hoseline? Or is that outside hoseline just protecting the outside of the home or an exposure? If the brothers were training their outside line through to only open window in the rear, this could have led to the fire being forced back out through the front door.

    I'd be led to think that the only exit point for the pressurized home was the same door in which the fan was placed, causing the chaos that ensued.
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 10-31-2007 at 09:28 AM.

  20. #20
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    On a Hill, overlooking George's Kingdom
    Posts
    2,576

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    As someone who has never used PPV, are you implying that in order to use ppv correctly, entry cannot be made unless it is to operate a handline?

    Any other PPV users out there?
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Please explain
    By 2andfrom in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-24-2007, 06:56 PM
  2. Can someone please explain this...
    By FTMPTB15 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-26-2006, 10:56 AM
  3. Please explain
    By firechap in forum Federal FIRE ACT Grants & Funding
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09-26-2006, 08:51 AM
  4. PA - Can someone explain how this happens?
    By Bones42 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 02-18-2003, 09:49 PM
  5. Will some please explain.........
    By BCmdepas3280 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 86
    Last Post: 04-16-2002, 09:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts