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    Default Door chocks, wedges, nails and straps use.

    Back to basics info desired from you RKI's.
    I'm looking for some info, tips reminders and links about when and how to secure interior doors.
    When doing primary searches, what are some guidelines about door opening and securing while your searching a room?
    What are some considerations about door securing and position in relation to smoke and air tracts?
    Doors open, closed or something in-between?
    Has anyone remembered and used the technique of leaving a lightbox or light stick by a door for reference, and how effective was it in a "normal" smoke filled residential structure room?

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    It looks hot in there
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    I use the lightstick, just drop it by the door when I enter a room, and pick it up on the way out. The lightbox works well on an oriented search.

    As for opening and closing doors, if you have line with you, obviously check for heat, and make sure your in a place where you can open and close the door safely and still have protection from the line. Basically, if you open a door, close it up again. Both to control smoke and fire.
    Last edited by PureAdrenalin; 10-31-2007 at 10:02 PM.
    'Adversus incendia excubias nocturnas vigilesque commentus est"

    www.vententersearch.com

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    If your searching with a handline the line will do all of that for you. If not, keep the door open with a chock or something while searching, when finished, close the door and mark it with.... whatever your dept. uses, then move to the next.
    JOHN 15:13

    ISAIAH 43:2



    1st Asst. Chief Ray Johns

    FF/NREMT-B

    Marion Volunteer Fire Department

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    It seems common sense, but if you're going to close a door behind you, make sure you can open it up again. Turn the handle on your side, make sure there's not a locked lock, or a keyed lock that you can't unlock, or a keycarded lock. We have a lot of buildings around here, such as telecommunications companies, that have very secure areas. If you close one of those doors behind you, you may or may not get it back open.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LtJohns355 View Post
    If your searching with a handline the line will do all of that for you. If not, keep the door open with a chock or something while searching, when finished, close the door and mark it with.... whatever your dept. uses, then move to the next.
    Lou,

    What about the line getting wedged by the door when it is not properly chocked?

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    what about it?
    JOHN 15:13

    ISAIAH 43:2



    1st Asst. Chief Ray Johns

    FF/NREMT-B

    Marion Volunteer Fire Department

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    Talking

    my best advice would be "chock the door properly"
    JOHN 15:13

    ISAIAH 43:2



    1st Asst. Chief Ray Johns

    FF/NREMT-B

    Marion Volunteer Fire Department

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    Thanks for the helpful replies.
    Trying to get a beeter understanding of the "why".
    Around my area, have been told to keep it full open by some, close it by others with a few "not sures".
    Quote Originally Posted by PureAdrenalin View Post
    Basically, if you open a door, close it up again. Both to control smoke and fire.
    Does that mean close the door after you've searched or during the search while your in the room?

    Would there be a situation where you would want to keep the door open a crack due to unsure latching and isolating the room from smoke/heat/ignition?
    I simulated chocking various doors at home.
    Single chock full open.
    Fully closed using knob/latch.
    Double chocking almost closed with a couple of wedges at the lower corner on the door knob side. Would prevent the door from being swung inward and stop it from swinging closed and latched. Door is only open an inch or so, and the chocks/wedges are easily found and removed at the corner.

    Did it when the wife and kiddo's weren't home.
    "Why are you crawling around wedging doors with your coat and gloves on"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LtJohns355 View Post
    what about it?
    My point is...it is best to chock any door that a hoseline is being advanced through. Not taking the time to chock it can cause delays in advancing quickly if the line were to become wedged or requires more energy do to the friction/bends created on the line. A more serious issue would be the line wedging in the door and personnel not being able to reopen it, preventing them from leaving (or escaping) in a timely manner if conditions were to deteriorate.

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    I've never really had that problem in a residential structure, but I can see your point if it is a commercial building with large steel doors or somthing....
    JOHN 15:13

    ISAIAH 43:2



    1st Asst. Chief Ray Johns

    FF/NREMT-B

    Marion Volunteer Fire Department

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    Quote Originally Posted by LtJohns355 View Post
    I've never really had that problem in a residential structure, but I can see your point if it is a commercial building with large steel doors or somthing....
    What can be worse in those buildings is advancing a dry line and having a door close over it. Then if the line gets charged, you got reduced pressure AND you can't get the door open - which could leave you trapped in an area with fire, no (or limited water). Which underscores the importance of having a secondary exit.

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    I agree 100%
    JOHN 15:13

    ISAIAH 43:2



    1st Asst. Chief Ray Johns

    FF/NREMT-B

    Marion Volunteer Fire Department

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    If you are searching, especially in a private dwelling with an open stairwell, it would be wise to close the door once you enter a room to search it. Don't allow the door to latch or lock, but close it to keep heat and smoke off of you as you search the room. If a window needs to be vented to aid in this search, you will be less likely to draw the fire towards you.

    The closed door acts as a safety between you and the fire, especially if you are searching bedrooms above the fire. The open hallway and open stairwell will just accelerate the fire spread.

    Make sure you check conditions in the hallway once you finish searching the room before you open the door fully and exit the room

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    Default Great Idea

    Quote Originally Posted by PureAdrenalin View Post
    I use the lightstick, just drop it by the door when I enter a room, and pick it up on the way out.

    I like this idea a lot. Quick, easy, and cost effective. Definantly going to buy a pack of light sticks now.

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by picone239 View Post
    I like this idea a lot. Quick, easy, and cost effective. Definantly going to buy a pack of light sticks now.

    Thanks
    Great idea - How has this worked out for people? Any complaints? I will have to give it a try -

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    What do you use to show a room has been searched?

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    In a residence, we keep going whether in two or three man teams through the structure, if any victims they pass off to the outside medic crew and then restart the search. Therefore no need to mark doors bc they pick right up where they left off.

    In commercial, we do not mark doors yet bet it is being discussed. Chaulk and pens seem to be cumbersome to me but I don't have a thought otherwise that could be effective. Possibly door tags or wrap the knob with a section of banner tape? I guess could work but how many door tags would you need to carry for a hotel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LtJohns355 View Post
    I've never really had that problem in a residential structure, but I can see your point if it is a commercial building with large steel doors or somthing....
    Not to bag on you Lt. But if you or anyone else wants to see what kind of problems or read about what kind of problems an unsecured/unchocked door can cause when it becomes jammed on a hoseline you need to read the NIOSH report on the death of FF Roberts from BCFD. He and 2 other FF's fell down the stairs hitting the door and causing it to close. Because of their position behind the now closed door it took extra time for the RIT and other FF's to get the door open enough to rescue FF Roberts. They ended up having to pop the door off it's hinges. Would this have happened if the door was properly chocked, who knows. I do believe that the extra couple of minutes it took to get back inside might have helped save FF Roberts life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishltemt69 View Post
    Great idea - How has this worked out for people? Any complaints? I will have to give it a try -
    Works fine if you're in a dense smoke environment, and are using an oriented type search. Normally as you do an oriented search you would have your hoseline in the hallway, as you break off to make a quick search of the rooms off the hallway. So by either using a chemlight, or a flashlight dropped at the door, you know where you came in. You may not be able to see it from across the room, but you'll pick up on it when you get close. You can always stick one on your helmet too if you have one of those rubber helmet bands. Naturally, I only do this if smoke conditions warrant it, as if you're dropping chemlights in light smoke conditions, you might catch some flak.
    'Adversus incendia excubias nocturnas vigilesque commentus est"

    www.vententersearch.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by PureAdrenalin View Post
    Works fine if you're in a dense smoke environment, and are using an oriented type search. Normally as you do an oriented search you would have your hoseline in the hallway, as you break off to make a quick search of the rooms off the hallway. So by either using a chemlight, or a flashlight dropped at the door, you know where you came in. You may not be able to see it from across the room, but you'll pick up on it when you get close. You can always stick one on your helmet too if you have one of those rubber helmet bands. Naturally, I only do this if smoke conditions warrant it, as if you're dropping chemlights in light smoke conditions, you might catch some flak.
    Yeah I figured as much on the flak - My thoughts were that visibilty at times can be nothing so how good is this chemlight theory - but if you say it works, I will have to give it a try -

    Thanks!

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    well...when visibility is zero, you may just pick up the faintest glow, then again...if you can't see your hand in front of your mask at 5 inches..it probably wouldn't matter, and if that's the case....you need some ventilation. Try it a smoked out burn building and decide for yourself. It's not something I was taught, it's something I tried, and it's worked the few times that i've used it.
    'Adversus incendia excubias nocturnas vigilesque commentus est"

    www.vententersearch.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by GFDLT1 View Post
    ...what kind of problems an unsecured/unchocked door can cause when it becomes jammed on a hoseline you need to read the NIOSH report on the death of FF Roberts from BCFD.
    What state is the BCFD/Roberts report found at?

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    Baltimore, MD

    Here is a link to the report that was published about a month or two ago.

    http://www.baltimorecity.gov/governm...%20514%202.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by LtJohns355 View Post
    my best advice would be "chock the door properly"
    what r the chances of a hose getting stuck if it is charged though.......in my opinion not very likely

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    I'd leave a tool in the door such as an axe, iron, crowbar etc... Always advance with the line if vision is poor and retreat the same way following the line.

    Door closes on a uncharged line... that has happened during training It does make you think what would happend if the door couldn't be opened.

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