1. #1
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    Default Smoke detector question.....

    Hey everyone. This question does not concern my department, this is just a general question to help me understand something.

    i know that there are some fire departments who will not install smoke detectors for people and there are some who will. I was told by a fire department in my area that the reason why they will not install smoke detectors is because if a fire actually occurred where there was either injury or death to the occupant because the smoke detector failed to sound that the fire department could possibly be held responsible because they installed it.

    Also, the Memphis Fire Department web page that is run by the union has a section where you can listen to the dispatch and fire ground radio traffic. I noticed that on fires where it was accidental or false alarm that when notifying dispatch they will include if there is a working smoke detector. For instance, "Engine 1 to dispatch, you can cancel all units not on scene, false alarm, Engine 1 will be going back in service. residence (or business) has a working smoke detector." I was just wondering why they do this? I am not saying there is anything wrong with it, just wondering why they include that.

    Thanks everyone. Stay safe out there.

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    Saying something about the detector over the air might have something to do with NFIRS and their part bout whether there was a detector and if it alerted the occupants.

    As for installing smoke detectors, I won't do it. When you build a new house, does the FD come install them? No. Why should I be doing it any other time. I'm not licensed to be doing work on anyone's home.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    i don't know about the working smoke detector part but as of about 6 months ago we can clear if a dispatcher speaks with the homeowner and confirms it's false, we used to continue code 1 and confirm. with the smoke detectors we will install them, they have to contact the city and request one and they have to meet certain criteria, i.e. elderly fixed income, welfare, etc. we install it, test it and then they sign what i believe is some kind of liability waiver saying it is up to them to maintain it..i should know but im the installer not the boss.

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    k.

    Down ere we don worry to stressfull, we is laid back kind of horse and carts wind down de road sorts of folks.

    K.

    We figured a few years back dat dem dam fire and smoke deefector tings, dang dem do da business.

    k.

    We don have no liabil, bggr, defamat, nope, lawye, fancy court cases you seem to thrive on. We be dem site smarter than that, us laid back people what pick up your crumbs for the last 100 years (jokes , honest )

    k.

    What we do and have done for years is put smoke detectors into houses, and actively ADVERTISED at daylight saving time change (every 6 months for them that have trouble with numbers) changing the thingy that does the business.

    k.

    Can we significantly say we have saved lives? Ask de Bosses, I sit in the back of de truck and do de job. (The answer is as a Fire Rescue Service, H@ll yes we have)

    K.

    Can I be proud of our input to de place we live, you bet your boots I am. I may walk straight past a person on street in my own community that I NEVER met outside their house as it turns to ash, and they will NEVER recognise me.

    That is good, that is how it should be.

    Proud to be a Kiwi Firefighter in a straight up honest country.

    Bet your life I am.

    I do.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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    Kiwi, I'm sorry but i did not understand about 90% of what you just wrote, haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinFFVFD View Post
    Kiwi, I'm sorry but i did not understand about 90% of what you just wrote, haha
    ....honestly I kinda wonder if he understands 70% of what he just wrote (the parts written in "de Bayou").
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

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    Do we install them upon request? No. Do we leave one with the homeowner if no working ones are present? Yes. If they don't have a replacement battery, we give them one.

    I'd rather worry about (not happend anywhere that I know of) liability of giving them a defective detector than the knowledge that I know they did not have one and left them that way and have to remove their dead body later.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    We supply them to anyone that requests one. We install it (in the proper location), test it and will even supply and change batteries in them when requested.

    Why?

    BECAUSE THEY SAVE LIVES!!!!!

    I cannot understand a department refusing to supply and install detectors, or change the batteries, in what has been proved to be the single most effective life-saving piece of equipment in a residence.

    Liability? Who is liable when a citizen dies in a fire and the fire department had previously refused/denied the resident a working smoke detector? Perhaps the department cannot be held criminally liable, but how can this policy in any way be good for the the citizens we are sworn to protect?!

    It just makes absolutely NO sense to me, whatsoever!
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    I was probably going for more of the Jamaican feel to things.

    You can hand them out, install them, but you have to keep the education up. Some people are like the old computers, you have to punch the information in.

    Case in point, my Brother in Law. A highly paid account manager for a big computer company (think three letters and a blue logo)

    I was asked when visiting them a few years back to check the smoke detectors as my sister wasn't sure they were working.

    OK, when you change the 9 volt battery in a smoke detector they will NOT work if you leave the celophane wrapper around the battery.

    Yes we have been to fires where our installed detectors are hanging there with dead batteries, but we have been to a damn site more single room fires that are contained quickly with no harm to occupants because the detectors worked.

    I agree with fireman4949. Any department or fire service that backs out on this issue does not deserve their name.

    Get them to sign a waiver if you are that much of a pussy group.

    But install the detector.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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    (think three letters and a blue logo)
    ....who's nickname is 1 Big Mistake.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I agree with all of you, smoke detectors do save lives. There are several in my house. however not to long ago I saw a video on the website for the Mississippi Firefighters Association on a problem with smoke detectors lately. I cant remember who did the study, but there was a few firefighters who volunteered to have a study done with their family concerning reports that people (mostly children I think) were not waking up when the smoke detector sounded. They went into the firefighters homes on an unspecified night and set off the smoke detectors. Surprisingly almost none of the children woke up, and if they did it took several minutes of the alarm going off to wake them up. here is a link to the video, scroll down to "Please look at this video clip" and watch for yourself....

    http://www.mffa.com/

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    Concidering how slowly I react to my alarm clocks and pager while asleep, it wouldn't surprise me if half my house burned down around me while I slept.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinFFVFD View Post
    I agree with all of you, smoke detectors do save lives. There are several in my house. however not to long ago I saw a video on the website for the Mississippi Firefighters Association on a problem with smoke detectors lately. I cant remember who did the study, but there was a few firefighters who volunteered to have a study done with their family concerning reports that people (mostly children I think) were not waking up when the smoke detector sounded. They went into the firefighters homes on an unspecified night and set off the smoke detectors. Surprisingly almost none of the children woke up, and if they did it took several minutes of the alarm going off to wake them up. here is a link to the video, scroll down to "Please look at this video clip" and watch for yourself....

    http://www.mffa.com/

    The fact that children will not wake to the sound of the alarm has been known for some time. I have even tried this with my children with the same results.

    That why it is vitally important that parents are made aware of this. We tell families with children to never depend solely upon the alarm to wake the kids, and that it is always up to the adults to awaken/rescue the children. The standard smoke detector alarm simply will not do it.



    Building codes require all new construction to hard-wire all smoke/heat detectors or CO detectors together so that when one alarm is activated, all of them will sound simultaneously.
    The way my own house is laid out, I would never hear a single detector if it went off on the far end of the house, or even on the second floor. Thankfully, my detectors are all connected.
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    [QUOTE=KevinFFVFD;881586]Also, the Memphis Fire Department web page that is run by the union has a section where you can listen to the dispatch and fire ground radio traffic. I noticed that on fires where it was accidental or false alarm that when notifying dispatch they will include if there is a working smoke detector. For instance, "Engine 1 to dispatch, you can cancel all units not on scene, false alarm, Engine 1 will be going back in service. residence (or business) has a working smoke detector." I was just wondering why they do this? I am not saying there is anything wrong with it, just wondering why they include that.QUOTE]
    I will tell you what I know and some of what I speculate.

    The Memphis Fire Department will provide every residential dwelling with a smoke detector upon request. For several years we would also "blitz" a high fire area where companies would actually walk from door to door and offer free detectors. Many, many times it has been noticed that people that have received a free detector, will weeks later not have a battery because they have taken it out to use it for other things.

    I speculate that because we are handing them out and we are installing them, management wants companies to announce on a recorded audio tape to basically prove that we were at your house on this date for this call. We checked your smoke detector while we were there, it had a battery, and it worked.

    Will it limit the amount of any liability, who knows? I don't make the rules.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    The old battery trick! Ask maintenance people at hotels. They always know a wedding was there because the batteries have been taken out of the remote controls.


    We have a smoke detector program. We will install and change batteries for senior citizens. We also get grant money to install CO detectors. We only will install in the proper place. The City attorney gave us a wavier that they must sign before we will install anything.
    This space for rent

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    We put them in all the time. If a fire death occurs on the block, the next day the ENTIRE block gets smoke detectors installed. What I find funny is installing the 5th one in line in a stairwell where we have installed them years prior. They claim they dont work, they get a new one. It just amazing. Mr. Fireman, can you give me one of those fire detectors?
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    I forgot to mention this in my last post, in the video they used a type of smoke detector where instead of the loud beeping noise it would instead play a recorded message of the child's parents voice. So instead of the beeping they would hear there mother or father telling them to get out of the house. They said it actually got a better response.

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    By the way, thanks MemphisE34a for your response. I was hoping you would give an answer. I was just curious as to why yall actually did that, not saying there is anything wrong with it, just curious.

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    I thought we called them smoke alarms, not detectors?
    IACOJ
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    I am willing to learn.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinFFVFD View Post

    Also, the Memphis Fire Department web page that is run by the union has a section where you can listen to the dispatch and fire ground radio traffic. I noticed that on fires where it was accidental or false alarm that when notifying dispatch they will include if there is a working smoke detector. For instance, "Engine 1 to dispatch, you can cancel all units not on scene, false alarm, Engine 1 will be going back in service. residence (or business) has a working smoke detector." I was just wondering why they do this? I am not saying there is anything wrong with it, just wondering why they include that.

    Thanks everyone. Stay safe out there.

    We add the status of the working/non-working smoke detector in CAD on the comments from that particular call. The only drawback is, there is no 'database' to look at a particular street and see where there is a working detector and where we may need to install one at. We are working on purchasing a new CAD system. I would imagine this will be incorporated into it somehow.

    Also, just for clarification purposes, the live scanner feed is provided by me at www.memphisfirescanner.com. The website that you saw just has my site linked from their site.
    Secretary/Treasurer
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtomek112 View Post
    We add the status of the working/non-working smoke detector in CAD on the comments from that particular call. The only drawback is, there is no 'database' to look at a particular street and see where there is a working detector and where we may need to install one at. We are working on purchasing a new CAD system. I would imagine this will be incorporated into it somehow.

    Also, just for clarification purposes, the live scanner feed is provided by me at www.memphisfirescanner.com. The website that you saw just has my site linked from their site.
    Ah, I see. Thanks for putting it up. I usually have it going in the background when I am on my computer. I am still actually considering MFD as a possible place for me to apply in a few years and I enjoy listening to the department on runs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinFFVFD View Post
    Ah, I see. Thanks for putting it up. I usually have it going in the background when I am on my computer. I am still actually considering MFD as a possible place for me to apply in a few years and I enjoy listening to the department on runs.

    Glad you enjoy the feed. I'm tinkering with it often to make it bigger and better!
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