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    Default Vertical ventilation and truss roofs

    Is there any departments that do not do vertical ventilation on truss roofs regardless of fire conditions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNFF319 View Post
    Is there any departments that do not do vertical ventilation on truss roofs regardless of fire conditions?
    Hardly enough fire here to count, but our SOG is only off of a roof ladder or preferably the aerial.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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    Default roof ladder

    A roof ladder on a truss roof provides little or no protection from a partial or full collapse of the roof. There is no supporting ridge pole. I cant believe we are still discussing this

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireground1 View Post
    A roof ladder on a truss roof provides little or no protection from a partial or full collapse of the roof. There is no supporting ridge pole. I cant believe we are still discussing this
    Just for arguments sake, wouldn't a roof ladder help partially? Spread the weight of the firefighter over a larger base.

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    Perhaps this link will help answer your question.

    http://www.vententersearch.com/videos/bucketfire.wmv

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    Spread the weight over a larger area that is not supported by the failed truss already? When the truss fails, that entire length of that truss is failed and there is no support.

    Unless, maybe you are running your roof ladders horizontally on the roof, crossing over multiple trusses...
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by localtrainer75 View Post
    Perhaps this link will help answer your question.

    http://www.vententersearch.com/videos/bucketfire.wmv
    Good Clip. First time I have seen that specific reaction during a collapse.

    A roof ladder on a truss roof provides little or no protection from a partial or full collapse of the roof. There is no supporting ridge pole.
    Very good point, but honestly we are so conservative when it comes to roof ops, we wouldn't be up there at all if we thought the fire had breached the attic/void space. Point well taken though, you may not always be able to tell.
    Last edited by mcaldwell; 11-02-2007 at 04:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Spread the weight over a larger area that is not supported by the failed truss already? When the truss fails, that entire length of that truss is failed and there is no support.

    Unless, maybe you are running your roof ladders horizontally on the roof, crossing over multiple trusses...
    Good enough point, just trying to get some thinking going on, certainly not saying that you should do roof operations on any questionable truss.

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    Default Carbeck

    I know that it comes from the Construction Industry Side, but www.carbeck.org has some interesting information on lightweight truss roofs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcaldwell View Post
    Hardly enough fire here to count, but our SOG is only off of a roof ladder or preferably the aerial.
    same thing in France.
    "sauver ou périr"

    "courage et dévouement"

    2 french mottoes in french fire service.

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    A little off-topic, but if being on a truss roof is unsafe, how do you all feel about working UNDER a truss roof?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MEAN15 View Post
    A little off-topic, but if being on a truss roof is unsafe, how do you all feel about working UNDER a truss roof?
    Equally as cautious.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MEAN15 View Post
    A little off-topic, but if being on a truss roof is unsafe, how do you all feel about working UNDER a truss roof?
    What about living under one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lexfd5 View Post
    What about living under one?
    Even more cautious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNFF319 View Post
    on truss roofs regardless of fire conditions?
    Well, you say regardless of fire conditions, but if the fire conditions were at a point where vertical ventilation would be necessary there shouldn't anyone on top of, or under a roof that was suspected to be of truss construction. Just give it another minute or two and the trusses will take care of it for you.

    Unless of course, you cut holes in the roof for the burned food on the stove
    NJ FFII/EMT-B

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaytallica45 View Post
    Unless of course, you cut holes in the roof for the burned food on the stove

    And what are you trying to say??!!
    www.KFDEngine6.com

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    Something else to consider...Electrical solar panels

    http://www.ktvu.com/video/14491729/index.html

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    If the fire involves, or you suspect that the fire involves the truss roof, then let the fire make a vent hole for you. If you really feel compelled to open the roof, then you had better do it off of an aerial or aerial platform. Let me throw this one out there - how many of you reading this thread know which buildings in your response area have truss roofs?? And I don't mean just commercial buildings. How many single family homes in your area have either truss roofs or floors, or even both for that matter? And if you know that a particular SFD has truss construction (Hybrid), how do you identify it?

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    I thought there was no sure way to know if a roof is truss or not from the outside.

    Is there?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgcjmc View Post
    If the fire involves, or you suspect that the fire involves the truss roof, then let the fire make a vent hole for you. If you really feel compelled to open the roof, then you had better do it off of an aerial or aerial platform. Let me throw this one out there - how many of you reading this thread know which buildings in your response area have truss roofs?? And I don't mean just commercial buildings. How many single family homes in your area have either truss roofs or floors, or even both for that matter? And if you know that a particular SFD has truss construction (Hybrid), how do you identify it?
    You can't make this statement with any kind of understanding about firefighting operations. Every scenario requires a risk assesment. I've cut them before, and if directed I'll cut one tonight.

    When will the madness stop, maybe we shouldn't drive fire apparatus because there is a danger of crashing. Maybe we shouldn't allow our heart rates to get above 100 because we might have a stroke. Gimme a break.

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    I have been to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of fires in single family dwellings and apartments made with lightweight truss assemblies held together by gusset plates. I have yet to see one completely fail causing an entire roof assembly to collapse. Most often, they burn up and go away before they will fall down.

    This is because single family dwellings and apartment building have plenty of interior walls that absolutely do support individual truss assemblies. If one, two, three, etc. truss assemblies completely burn away, the rest of the roof does not fall down.

    Why are we still talking about it?? Because people say stupid stuff like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by bgcjmc
    If you really feel compelled to open the roof, then you had better do it off of an aerial or aerial platform. Let me throw this one out there - how many of you reading this thread know which buildings in your response area have truss roofs?? And I don't mean just commercial buildings. How many single family homes in your area have either truss roofs or floors, or even both for that matter?
    Truss roofs are dangerous and prone to early collapse in buildings with large open spans beneath them - generally accepted as distances over 20' - 30'. Churches, strip malls, warehouses, etc. - I agree. If there has been signicant fire in the truss space for over 5 minutes, leave it alone. If it is a standard SFD or apartment building - take a line inside, pull some ceiling or find the attic access, spray a little water, and put the dang fire out.



    Before:




    About 5 minutes later:



    WOW!!! Miraculously, 5 or 6 sections of truss are completely burnt away, yet beyond burnt truss you can see, the rest of the roof remains!!!! Someone think thats David Copperfield in those turnouts instead of me??
    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 12-18-2007 at 11:34 PM.
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    Yeah, that's totally fake. You're clearly part of an overarching conspiracy. I bet you have gusset plates under your pillow.



    Communist.

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    You've got excellent levitation skills, how are you able to defy the lies of gravity and the all knowing construction engineers of the forums.

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    MemphisE34a, please don't let facts get in the way of a forum discussion.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    I have been to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of fires in single family dwellings and apartments made with lightweight truss assemblies held together by gusset plates. I have yet to see one completely fail causing an entire roof assembly to collapse. Most often, they burn up and go away before they will fall down.

    This is because single family dwellings and apartment building have plenty of interior walls that absolutely do support individual truss assemblies. If one, two, three, etc. truss assemblies completely burn away, the rest of the roof does not fall down.

    Why are we still talking about it?? Because people say stupid stuff like this:



    Truss roofs are dangerous and prone to early collapse in buildings with large open spans beneath them - generally accepted as distances over 20' - 30'. Churches, strip malls, warehouses, etc. - I agree. If there has been signicant fire in the truss space for over 5 minutes, leave it alone. If it is a standard SFD or apartment building - take a line inside, pull some ceiling or find the attic access, spray a little water, and put the dang fire out.



    Before:




    About 5 minutes later:



    WOW!!! Miraculously, 5 or 6 sections of truss are completely burnt away, yet beyond burnt truss you can see, the rest of the roof remains!!!! Someone think thats David Copperfield in those turnouts instead of me??
    Lies. All damn lies. Are you even a fireman? Never open the roof, never go interior, are you crazy? People get hurt at fires by going up and by going in. Stop the madness and set up outside where it's safe!

    P.S. Wear your mask even though you are outside - just to be sure.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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