Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    2

    Exclamation Considering a job in Spain READ THIS!!

    I have deleted my original thread, as this has turned into a ****ing contest. My intention was to inform those considering jobs at Moron of the situations they would encounter. It was not to degrade the firefighters, or their abilities. The issues I mentioned have been on-going for years. Some can be solved, some can't. I hope one day a solution is reached that is agreeable for both management and the firefighters. I wish both sides the best of luck finding this solution.

    Firefly please delete my quote in your reply.

    Nighttrain 02
    Last edited by nighttrain02; 11-18-2007 at 06:53 AM. Reason: Information not taken as intended


  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    184

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nighttrain02 View Post
    It is not my intention to slam the company with the contract or those associated with it. However, I'd like to inform those considering employment of the real deal at Moron AB, Spain.
    Five of the ten American Nationals hired have resigned in less than a month. Two of those resigned within 8 hours of the contract start. The department itself is a nightmare! First and foremost, you will have an unreliable work force working for you. Firefighters show up at roll call in civilian clothes, place protective gear in lockers prior to roll call, abuse sick leave and 6 other types of leave. In many cases, they didn't even call to inform leadership they would not be in for duty. With 25 personnel assigned to a shift, it is almost impossible to keep 16 on duty. Overtime is rampant, sometimes in excess of 60% of assigned manpower. Add hose, rope, vehicle, ladder, and equipment testing programs that are not NFPA compliant and you have a recipe for disaster! I almost forgot one very important detail...you will be working in a hostile environment. Not from bullets flying, but personnal threats toward US interests, management staff, and co workers.
    Everyone hired originally had one thing in common: We all had the desire to make Moron Fire Department a better place. No matter what action was taken, the Unions were there in force to combat such action. Discipline of firefighters was done by the company, not the management staff. Under these constraints it is almost impossible to manage a fire department.
    All contracts are written for 8 hour days 40 hours per week. There are 3 A/C's and 3 Station Chiefs so one would assume the work schedule is 24 on 48 off. This is not true...the intention is to run operations in 8 hour shifts. Don't ask me why as I asked the same question upon arrival. Bottom line - READ THE CONTRACT IN FULL!
    After reading this, if you are still considering the jobs at Moron AB, I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully, things will turn out better for you than they did for us.

    Nighttrain02
    wow within 8 hours!!!!! yeah even if i could go i woulr avoid that place at all cost.
    No person can be a great leader unless he takes genuine joy in the successes of those under him.
    ~W. A. Nance~

    It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
    ~Walt Disney~

    Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
    ~Mark Twain~

    Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again.
    ~James R. Cook~

    Life don't suck. Life is what you make of it.
    ~FIREFLY~

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Nighttrain,

    Brother, good to see that you made it out!! >>**censored on advise of council**<<

    Steve

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5

    Angry more lies about moron air base fire department

    this gay is a lier.
    I am a firefighter of moron air base and the things are not like that.
    The Spanish workers are ruled by Spanish laws.In Spain the workers has rights.The firefighters are spanish national contracted by a Spanish company and under Spanish laws.
    The Spanish always have had very good relations with the Americans (included the chiefs).We think that the problems are between the Americans since those who have come and retired is for the money, For feeling cheated in his contracting.
    We are a professional department that has always had a very good reputation around the world, and We will not allow because of someone who does not really know how to do their job Have bad reputation.
    so Not to listen to this person, who is a liar and ask directly to moron firefighters.
    Thank you for your attention, and if they have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5

    Angry More Lies

    As firefighter belonging to the air base of moron, I am saddened to see that there are people who try to discredit others for his own incompetence.
    The first thing to do when it comes to a strange country is concerned about the laws and workers' rights.Firefighters from the base of moron are Spanish workers belonging to a Spanish company and under Spanish laws.
    But the real problem is not by firefighters, but due to personal problems between the Americans are trying to discredit hired firefighters Spaniards.And that is something that as a professional firefighter in moron, I am not going to consent.We are a department that has always had a very good reputation around the world, and thus must remain.It is not our fault if the new people are not coming up to the circumstances, whether or not they are interested in the job.Writing is very easy, but we have to give the face and not run. And if you go out to escape, at least not speak ill of people to their backs.We must tell the whole story, and not just that a person is well advised, as this cheating and lying.
    If someone wants to know something, please please contact me and Attempts to resolve all doubts

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2

    Default Spin

    I had the opportunity to deploy to moron last year during the strike set down by the union.
    We were briefed when we got there by everyone in our chain about how confrontational and difficult the Spanish were.. and to be on guard when around them. the first day of the job we were escorted to the department by the base police. after a couple of chilly days the Spanish fire fighters began to warm up the Americans that had deployed there (well most of them anyways).. and i found all of the bomberos on my shift to be some of the hardest working, professional, and just all around nice guys I’ve ever had the pleasure of working with. When tasked to complete a task all of the bomberos would go out of their way to get it done as quickly as possible, I know this seems inconsequential, but after working with some American, German, and English civvies.. this action was really surprising, and refreshing.
    not only did they do their job very well, they were some of the warmest individuals I’ve come across in my travels.. they cooked for us every weekend, they took us out on their boats in the med, and always invited us to their trips to Seville.
    I think a lot of the problems stem from prior military sliding into a completely foreign environ, meeting up with a completely different mind set (the Spanish are /really/ laid back), and attempting to make the bomberos adhere to American work ethic, and military ideals.. this not only is almost impossible, it also creates some of the aforementioned problems... I think if someone went down there with intentions of /helping/ not /changing/ most of the bomberos would be a lot more trusting o the incoming management, and not have such an adversarial attitude .. just my two cents.. I hope someday I can go back and visit all the great people I got to work with while I was there.. and I hope that they get someone down there that not only enjoys being there.. but gets along well with the bomberos, and I’m sorry to hear about your troubles nighttrain, hope you find somewhere that fits better

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    30

    Default considering Moron...

    I've read this thread and have been in the contract firefighting world for a few years and understand how things go. I worked in Iraq for a few years and if you talk to some it was great and others say it was the worst expereince of there life. I tend to go with the idea that it is what you make of it. I'm a fireman and always will be. I'm currently back in the states and not working with a fire dept and miss it badly and have recently looked into the Moron AFB contract.

    I would like some details on the job from people that are their now if possible. I've been to Spain before and the possibility of going back is pretty exciting. I know what it's like to not have the best equipment, people not like you and all of that stuff. I just want to know if we are really helping being there and if we are, is it worth it? I want the facts, not some opinion. Is that possible? Hope to hear back soon. It looks like they are looking to get people over there asap and I want to have as much information as possible before making the decision. Thanks.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2

    Default Canīt believe my eyes

    Hi, everyone, iīm another spanish firefighter working at moron ab, i,ve been working here for almost 6 years, iīm rescue technician, and eventhough iīm just a firefighter iīm certificated to be crew chief or driver/operator, i just wanna clear everyoneīs mind due to nightrainīs comments which i donīt think that a real fireman would say such things about his brothers.First of all, nighttrain says that we are "unreliable".I donīt think that an unreliable workforce would have in 2006 20 guys enrolled in the rescue tech course and not only have them all certificated by the end of the course, but also everyone with a score above 90% and 3 honour certificates(including me), and also lots of appreciation certificates from Pae, for our outstanding support of the mission.Do you think thatīs an unreliable workforce?, besides that, you say that we work in a "hostile environment"!!??, let me tell one thing,25 continued years of american national chiefs working with us and noone of them had any problem with us, and you were here just 1 month, maybe should beguin wondering that you might have the problem, but while you were here, Iīve always had the feeling that I never knew what I may find against us at the station when I came to work every morning, and you were working in a hostile environment??!!I could say lots of things you did to make a more difficult place to work at.But I like to solve problems face by face, like members of the same family, not like you are doing here."Thanks" for making all the people think that we are bad, remember that this could be read by anyone and it could endanger the job places of many family fathers,specially due to the "hostile environment" you say we work at, youīve been working in a european country and you did not do your homework (find out the concerns,laws and rules we are under).

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5

    Smile Moron Air Base Fire Department

    First of all apologize for putting "gay" instead of "guy" has been a problem with language...my most sincere apologies.
    The second thing is to thank "lostintrav" for having the courage to defend the spanish firefighters and say things as they really are.
    Just to say that the spanish firefighters never in the department history have had an strike.The trouble of those days was because of a certification problem. The firefighters should have never been held responsable for this because it was the training officer responsability.The spanish firefighters have never refused to do any courses to obtain certifications. " if you donīt know ,you canīt be held responsible for something like this ." This is why ten firefighters were riped out of their positions and the real reason the military personnel had to be sent to Moron Air Base.
    Thanks for the support recived and hope to see you guys soon.
    P.D. but just for vacation,hahaha

  10. #10
    Forum Member BFDNJFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Iraq
    Posts
    1,508

    Default

    Where do you find information on this contract?
    ******=================
    ******================
    ******=================
    ******================
    =======================
    =======================
    =======================

    ------GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ------

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    2

    Default Clarification of comments

    Obviously this thread has stirred emotions as I thought it would.
    The intent was to make sure individuals considering jobs at Moron understood what they were getting themselves into.
    If you look at my thread closely, you'll notice I never said the firefighters there were incompetent, or bad people. There are a lot of good people at Moron and the potential is there to have a great department.
    Most of the programs hose, ropes, vehicle etc can be brought up to speed if everyone puts forth the effort.
    Manpower issues are the biggest concern. When you struggle to keep 16 on duty out of 25 per shift this causes management problems. Overtime is paid to make up the shortfalls in manning sometimes reaching levels of 60%. This was the basis of the my comment "unreliable work force". A "reliable work force" is one that is available for duty and ready to respond at a moments notice.
    Many problems we faced were due to labor disputes that have been on-going for years. One day an agreement will be reached and both the Americans and Spanish Nationals will function as one cohesive team.
    One thing I would like to make clear...I am a firefighter and I know exactly how a fire department should function. As for the brotherhood comment...The last time I looked "firefighters did not threaten firefighters" either.
    You see, I too will not run. For every issue mentioned in my original thread there are facts and documentation to back it up.

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    11

    Default Departamento de Bomberos de Moron

    Vaya falta de respeto por parte de Nighttrain hacia sus hermanos bomberos de Moron, eso ocurre cuando uno viene de un ambiente excesivamente militar y encuentra con que tiene que lidiar con personal civil, con derechos civiles y protegidos por leyes que evitan el sometimiento del personal a ser explotados por ninguna compaņia privada. Me parece muy vergonzoso cargar las tintas contra los compaņeros cuando el problema es basicamente de estructuracion y por lo tanto la responsabilidad recae sobre la empresa contratada para prestar los servicios a las fuerzas aereas.

    Mi impresion es que este Nighttrain se ha equivocado en el planteamiento desde el principio, posiblemente viniera a Moron con un concepto erroneo de lo que supone trabajar entre civiles, como lo es ahora el, y en un pais europeo donde los derechos de los trabajadores a no ser explotados priman sobre cualquier concepto de sometimiento disciplinario militar.

    Por mi parte me siento orgulloso de mi trabajo en bomberos y de la mision que desempeņamos, pero sobre todo, lo que mas feliz me hace es compartir esta profesion con todos mis compaņeros, abnegados trabajadores, que han sabido dar mas del 120 por cien de su tiempo a una causa que no siempre les ha sabido devolver el gesto, el esfuerzo y la dedicacion.

    Aqui siempre recibiremos con agrado y ganas de ayudar y cooperar a todos aquellos que quieran incorporarse ya sean nacionales como extrangeros, con una condicion: conocimiento y respeto a los derechos de los trabajadores, los explotadores ignorantes no son bien recibidos ni seran tolerados.

    Un cordial saludo y esperamos veros por aqui muy pronto.

    jose payans
    firefighter-Ashift-Moron FD

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    60

    Default Moron Spain?

    Sign me up, Ill go. Then I can lateral out after a year or so to Italy! What are the details in getting a position over there? Im DOD, used to work on Kwajalein, and once upon a time Antarcitca.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Deleted....
    Last edited by Firecontract; 04-05-2010 at 08:07 PM.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2

    Default Same thing again

    Quote Originally Posted by nighttrain02 View Post
    Obviously this thread has stirred emotions as I thought it would.
    The intent was to make sure individuals considering jobs at Moron understood what they were getting themselves into.
    If you look at my thread closely, you'll notice I never said the firefighters there were incompetent, or bad people. There are a lot of good people at Moron and the potential is there to have a great department.
    Most of the programs hose, ropes, vehicle etc can be brought up to speed if everyone puts forth the effort.
    Manpower issues are the biggest concern. When you struggle to keep 16 on duty out of 25 per shift this causes management problems. Overtime is paid to make up the shortfalls in manning sometimes reaching levels of 60%. This was the basis of the my comment "unreliable work force". A "reliable work force" is one that is available for duty and ready to respond at a moments notice.
    Many problems we faced were due to labor disputes that have been on-going for years. One day an agreement will be reached and both the Americans and Spanish Nationals will function as one cohesive team.
    One thing I would like to make clear...I am a firefighter and I know exactly how a fire department should function. As for the brotherhood comment...The last time I looked "firefighters did not threaten firefighters" either.
    You see, I too will not run. For every issue mentioned in my original thread there are facts and documentation to back it up.
    Well, I just wanna ask you one thing as Iīm not gonna be my whole lifetime answering your quots: Did you take your time to find out the truth about the "threats"? As I know (and thatīs for sure), it was for something we said, but the real thing is that you guys do not speak spanish, and Iīll tell you something, somebody lied to you and told you what is not true to make you believe you were being threatened, and obviously to take some benefit of it.Here in Moron nobodyīs been threatened, never ever, what the hell do you think we are??Once again, the ones to pay the bill:the spanish firefighters.Again: you did not do your homework ...
    About the shortfalls in manning and abuse of sick leave: itīs been 5 or 6 years doing overtime everytime at anytime, add this to a scheddule of 72 hours a week, and people will fall in sick leave with psichosomatic problems(ask any psychologist) its been like a snowball that gets bigger and bigger due to the lack of personnel (the more people sick the more overtime to be done), once that level of illness is reached no matter how many people you hire, people is still tired and ill, do I have to remind you that we had to spend the whole last summer at that "firejail"? Oh, excuse me, you were not here to see it, at least ask the firemen!!!Again, YOU DIDNīT DO YOUR HOMEWORK...
    P.D.your comments didnīt stirre emotions, endangered work positions, the firefighters should not be mistreated no matter where they are from, the should be respected!!!!

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1

    Default Get yourself together... Never wimp out!!!!

    I spent 2 years in Moron Air Base working as AC for Ops. The best 2 years in my 18 years as a career firefighter. When I first got there, I knew their were cultural differences and things that I needed to understand from the locals to have a great working experience. Once you get to know the firefighters at Moron Air Base, you know you have great friends for life. This is a hard working group of men, dedicated to there job and family. During the 2 years that I spent in Moron Air Base, all the Air Force QA Inspections had excellent ratings. All programs were being inspected by the Air Force on a monthly basis, and they were always found to be in compliance of NFPA standards and Air Force instructions. I remember when I got to Moron Air Base, telling the firefighters in my shift that I wasn't there to change things, I was there to make things work and that I needed there help to do it, and that they could expect my help to make there job more enjoyable. And that was exactly what happened, we worked as a team to get the job done. I did not impose myself, and they respected my position and myself as I did them.
    If anyone decides to go to Moron Air Base, make sure you go with the attitude to get the job done and work together with this guys. Don't go thinking you are there to change the world or demonstrate others who you are. If something needs to be fixed, do it. If it ain't broke, don't change it. Learn about the local laws and how they affect the department. These firefighters can teach you one or two things, don't go with a "I know it all" attitude. Learn from them and they will learn from you.
    To my friends in Moron Air Base Fire Department, don't get hang up by the comments of those who never gave themselves a chance to know you and work with you. You guys are the best.

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5

    Default thank you brother

    Thank you boricua andaluz.
    It has been an honor to have you as our ac.
    you always will have a place in our hearts.
    Take care, brother.

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    60

    Thumbs up Good Contracts

    Ive noticed that guys will sell a lot of B.S. about how bad a place is just to keep people from wanting to work there. On Kwaj, firefighters answer the phones to the station in the dispatch office. Some dudes were notorious for telling guys over the phone how bad of a place it is to work and live. Now, its not perfect, but its not a complete hell hole. But the goal, or intent to deceive them was in order to keep the staffing short, just so there would be room for OT. Albeit, there were the occasional few who did call that sounded like complete and total losers, and saying the contract sucked was a way to keep them from getting a job there.
    My point is that you really do have to take each contract job with a grain of salt. There are lazy jack asses who intend to tell others that "working here will be the worst job ever, and a complete waste of time!"
    Well, to an extent contract work has its moments when it is a waste of time. There are huge pro's involved, and lots of cons. Its not union first of all. If thats your goal, don't waste too much time traveling abroad. Get the experience, then come back home. Second of all, your working for a company. The goals of the company are to make money first, keep a "false" sense of safety by treating its employees like children second, and then to make more money. So, equipping stations with modern firefighting equipment, and good training are always the last thing the list for Chugach, Raytheon, Halliburton etc.
    To us firefighters who want to make lots of money and stay somewhere that doesn't have a lot of the amenities is fine, as long as were paid well, don't get killed, hopefully see an occasional fire ( it makes us feel worth while), and then learn something new along the way. It's what makes contracting work worth it. The rest we put up with and the companies know it. That should tell you that its never going to change. For me the pro's outweigh the cons, by far. I love it, and wish I could be in Spain right now. Screw what the other guy says. I'd make the most of it, and the next time this contract becomes available Im going to apply and then start working over there.

    Moronbombero contact me,
    n0zman@hotmail.com
    Last edited by Jetsettingfire1; 12-11-2007 at 04:17 PM.

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    9

    Question What's The Deal!

    Soooooooo, does anyone have the info on the contract?

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    60

    Default

    The Contract is full right now. I wont open for a while.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Spain
    By nastarb in forum Americans Overseas
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-30-2007, 03:58 PM
  2. 14 firefighters killed in forest blaze in Spain
    By budthespud in forum Wildland Firefighting
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-25-2005, 01:46 PM
  3. Tragedy in Spain
    By JackTee09 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-18-2005, 11:03 AM
  4. Madrid, Spain fire injures 63
    By NJFFSA16 in forum Fire Wire
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-01-2002, 01:45 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts