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    Wink Old Apparatus...INNOVATION

    Do-It-Yourself Fire Crew Saves California Neighborhood - Los Angeles Times - 11-27-2007

    The professional firefighters did not roll up to Corral Canyon in time Saturday. So Matt Haines finally had his chance to rev up the private fire truck that he bought at a public surplus auction.

    Mr. Haines's 31-year-old pumper truck and tanker truck of similar vintage, helped a do-it-yourself fire brigade save a dozen homes as flames encircled their El Nido neighborhood. "We saved millions of dollars' worth of property today with those."

    His 750-gallon 1976 Ford fire engine performed flawlessly, he said, as did its companion truck, a 3,000-gallon tanker. Combined, the trucks cost around $6,000.
    http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/...orhood/4$57253

    This demonstrates what a little ingenuity, untrained people with a get 'er done desire, basic [outdated, resasonable] equipment, along with some good ole common sense can do and did...where the rubber meets the road, when push comes to shove, and the chips are down.
    "we learn from history...that we do not learn from history"

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFMBob View Post
    Do-It-Yourself Fire Crew Saves California Neighborhood - Los Angeles Times - 11-27-2007



    http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/...orhood/4$57253

    This demonstrates what a little ingenuity, untrained people with a get 'er done desire, basic [outdated, resasonable] equipment, along with some good ole common sense can do and did...where the rubber meets the road, when push comes to shove, and the chips are down.
    I wonder if these people have any concept of how lucky they were that they didnt get killed?
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I wonder if these people have any concept of how lucky they were that they didnt get killed?
    Dialing 911 does NOT count as doing something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Dialing 911 does NOT count as doing something.
    Yes but living does count as doing something.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Lightbulb CERT...using "minimal" resources:

    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Dialing 911 does NOT count as doing something.
    Here is a novel idea: Don't rely on the government for your every need. This is how they did it.
    But in the El Nido neighborhood, the residents seemed prepared to help themselves. Bill Raffin pulled out his portable pump and started drawing water from a swimming pool. Ken Wherry unrolled a canvas fire hose and connected it to a hydrant up the street. Kai Chan stretched out smaller garden hoses and laid them in strategic places around houses.
    Isn't this what CERT is all about...helping yourself and neighbors in an emergency...with minimal, readily available resources?
    "we learn from history...that we do not learn from history"

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    As I was watching the TV during the CA wildfires, I thought about something.

    Install fire sprinklers on the roof and side of the house. Install a lawn sprinkler system. If and when the fire gets close, turn all this on and pray it's enough.

    It may not completely shut it down, but make it managable.

    yes / no ???

    sorry guys, just my mind wondering...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctxffman View Post
    As I was watching the TV during the CA wildfires, I thought about something.

    Install fire sprinklers on the roof and side of the house. Install a lawn sprinkler system. If and when the fire gets close, turn all this on and pray it's enough.

    It may not completely shut it down, but make it managable.
    yes / no ???

    sorry guys, just my mind wondering...
    Absolutely...common sense stuff that [nearly] every homeowner could do. Also...from the aerial [media] views, notice that probably 50% of the houses have in-ground swimming pools. They could install a dry hydrant [from the pool], and have a portable pump available? The roof sprinklers [you suggested], could be valved from the pool thru the portable pump. If they didn't have a portable pump...at the very least, FD could draft from the hydrant.
    "we learn from history...that we do not learn from history"

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    Heck, why even have a Fire Department? They can do it all themselves on their own house so there would be very little need for it anymore.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Heck, why even have a Fire Department? They can do it all themselves on their own house so there would be very little need for it anymore.
    I think you are missing the point...or didn't bother to read the article. THEY DID CALL THE FIRE DEPARTMENT...who was unavailable!

    "I called the Fire Department at 8:20 and said El Nido was burning and no fire trucks were here. They said they were trying to get up here," Mrs. Wherry said. The only house on Sequit that burned was a home at the corner of Sequit and Sea Breeze that was out of range of Haines's fire hose.
    This should be the poster image of what CERT was designed for.

    The Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) Program educates people about disaster preparedness for hazards that may impact their area and trains them in basic disaster response skills, such as fire safety, light search and rescue, team organization, and disaster medical operations. Using the training learned in the classroom and during exercises, CERT members can assist others in their neighborhood or workplace following an event when professional responders are not immediately available to help. CERT members also are encouraged to support emergency response agencies by taking a more active role in emergency preparedness projects in their community.
    https://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/
    Last edited by TFMBob; 11-30-2007 at 08:36 PM.
    "we learn from history...that we do not learn from history"

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    This is exactly the type of fire that drove the pump companies to develop their little floating pumps years ago. I know Hale's is called the Fyr-Flote. Their California distributor at the time saw a need for the home owners up in the hills to have some way to try and protect their homes until the FD arrived. Throw this pump in the swimming pool, unfurl the 1 1/2 hose and put the nozzle on the end and you've got a pretty decent stream. Much better than a garden hose.

    TFMBob- you are absolutely right. We need to stop depending on the government to do everything for us.

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    His vintage trucks, for CAL, are what many depts here call front line pumpers.
    And yes, we have saved a lot of property with ours as well.

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    Agree with you Bob.

    The biggest oximoron I've ever heard (besides Naval Intelligence) is "I am from the goverment and I am here to help"

    An old preacher once said "Just don't sit there ...... Do sumting!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedcbk1 View Post
    The biggest oximoron I've ever heard (besides Naval Intelligence) is "I am from the goverment and I am here to help"
    Every fire department in my state is a government agency. They go to fires, they're from the government, and they're there to help. And they do it well.

    Anti-government slogans don't put out fires or help people. The government does.

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    Hmmm interesting. We have a mix of volunteer Bush fire brigades, retained and permanent 'town' firefighters in my area (Blue Mountains, towns surrounded by National park - lots of town/bush interface).
    YET we also have Community Fire Units (CFU) - trained by the career/retained townies, equipped with uniforms(2 peice nomex suits, helmets, goggles, gloves,boots etc),hose, standpipes, breech peices, portable pumps, branches and trained to protect their own house/mop up after front has passed.
    A street/neighbourhood group has to recruit and show intrest before training will commence and they only work in their own street/close area. They area issued with a trailer unit to hold equipment and its location is known to local bridgades and unit members.

    This program was started by a townie who realised that we didn't have enough personnel/trucks to keep up with a front and deal with proper mop up in a timely fashion. Same result as a private unit except with quality control, universal fittings, universal training methods, understanding of their place in command and control structures/who they answer to on a fire ground.

    The few units that have been active so far have been a great success. We have rolled onto a scence and their was a hydrant, already shipped, breech in place, 1 hose on and ready to provide water. And as a bonus, smooth ICS the whole incident!

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    Cool "do sumting"

    Way to go Blue Mountain. I like it when people get out of the box!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBaronl32 View Post
    Way to go Blue Mountain. I like it when people get out of the box!
    Don't you sleep Tony?

    I don't know, we gripe because these people live in areas prone to wild fires, and then we gripe because this guy had the means to take some extra precautions to protect their choice to be there. It isn't like he took a shotgun out and handled the robbery occurring at his neighbor's house. (How's that for stirring the pot?)
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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    For those that think what he did was a bad idea... By that logic I suppose we should just ban the sale of fire extinguishers too? Nobody but the real fire department should put out fires, even if the real fire department can't get there. I guess it will just have to burn.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Originally Posted by TFMBob
    Do-It-Yourself Fire Crew Saves California Neighborhood - Los Angeles Times - 11-27-2007



    http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/...orhood/4$57253

    This demonstrates what a little ingenuity, untrained people with a get 'er done desire, basic [outdated, resasonable] equipment, along with some good ole common sense can do and did...where the rubber meets the road, when push comes to shove, and the chips are down
    .

    Originally Posted by FWDBuff
    I wonder if these people have any concept of how lucky they were that they didnt get killed?
    While their actions did put them at risk (they lucked out big time) and did save their neighborhood, now the nutjobs and others will have the mentality that the FD can be downsized or isn't needed.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    I'm pretty sure the massive wildfire will far over-shadow one neighborhood with someone's personal fire truck parked in the driveway.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Originally Posted by TFMBob
    .

    Originally Posted by FWDBuff


    While their actions did put them at risk (they lucked out big time) and did save their neighborhood, now the nutjobs and others will have the mentality that the FD can be downsized or isn't needed.

    More likely they will get upset and demand creation of a FD in their local area. Perhaps a volunteer FD to handle their local calls. VS whatever is in place now.

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    If any one of us who posts on here lived there I can guarantee you we would not accept the status quo. Hopefully they will seek some guidance but you can't blame them for trying to protect their property.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    More likely they will get upset and demand creation of a FD in their local area. Perhaps a volunteer FD to handle their local calls. VS whatever is in place now.
    This is why many vol. department's became organized in the first place. That being said, and what many here will surely disagree with is...having personnel available...when needed. More and more vol. depts. are having trouble mustering crews...during the 8-5 time period because people are at work, many miles from the stations. Years ago, the vols were the; butcher, baker, hardware and gas station owner, etc., within walking [or running] distance of the station.

    Second, the demands for training and certification's imposed today, limits the pool of possible vols. People's lives today are complex and time consuming, finding time for certification classes, etc., are minimal. Like it or not...many depts. are responding with only two firefighters during this critical time period, and some with only one...with the hope others will respond directly to the scene.

    Third, there is the money issue of creating a vol dept., levys, taxes, fund raisers on and on. That is the primary reason many of these people live by choice in rural areas in the first place...taking the risks of fire and crime. This is reality...good luck on attempting to change it.
    "we learn from history...that we do not learn from history"

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    So, like I said, why have a fire department? Let a group of guys go out and buy their own used apparatus, not get any training, and do the job.


    After all, we (the fire service) actually want trained people using proper equipment. How dare us.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    So, like I said, why have a fire department? Let a group of guys go out and buy their own used apparatus, not get any training, and do the job.

    After all, we (the fire service) actually want trained people using proper equipment. How dare us.
    Looks like THIS bunch of untrained people...using old outdated [discarded equipment], did a pretty good job...without the trained people, using, proper equipment of the fire department...NO?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I realize this is somewhat ego deflating, but they did what they had to do, to help save their property in a time of emergency, when the [official] fire department was not available...like it or not. I would think you would applaud them...but all you choose to do is criticise. I just do not understand....
    "we learn from history...that we do not learn from history"

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    A guy with a deck gun and dish soap can save a lot of property! These are the same people that are going to stay anyway and fight it with garden hoses. Better they have some gpm's and equipment to protect them if they are over run. As for the FD being there! From the sound of it they were not going to be there any time soon.

    In the midwest the FD's would have are harder time with the larger grass fire's if the farmers did not bring their tractors and disks to build fire lines. Since they do not have 200+ hours training in firefighting would you send them home? I am sure the FF's wouldn't.

    Volunteerism is what this country is all about. Sometimes it is dangerous!
    Last edited by Quint23; 12-04-2007 at 06:25 PM.

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