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  1. #1
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    Default How not to do live fire training.

    It is hard to believe that this occurs. This is a slide show from a small town in northwest CT during a recent acquired structure burn. How many OSHA and NFPA 1403 violations can you find?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyZqRlofpT8
    -------------------
    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
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    Genius has its limits, but stupidity is boundless.

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    Wow. Interesting.

  3. #3
    It looks hot in there
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    While frightening..it's not surprising.
    'Adversus incendia excubias nocturnas vigilesque commentus est"

    www.vententersearch.com

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    What are you talking about? That guy was wearing NFPA approved jeans. 10 times stronger than bunker pants. I thought everyone wore those now.

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    Forget about the ppe how bout the gasoline?

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    another for the "own worst enemy file".
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Shenanigans!
    Hello. Fire dept.. You light'em, We fight'em!

    "hard working, gear jamming, nail driving, "jake". "

    IACOJ
    4-16-2010 "On the approach"

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    Thank heavens I don't live in NW CT... Oh. Cr@p. I do live in NW CT...

    At least I'm not too close to Goshen.

    I'm not sure which is worse: The incredibly bad training evolution with the "Chief" thinking that everything was just swell or having allowed the whole fiasco to be documented.

    Anyone got the phone number for ConnOSHA handy?
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    The FDIC preliminary brochure for 2008 has an interesting class on pg. 33.
    "Rapid Intervention Team for Live-Fire Training". Lt. (Ret.) David M. Gallagher.

    I know we're not all perfect at live burns, training and at incidents.
    But, videos and pics like this?

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    Productive my tail. I hope those probies learn from the Chief's mistakes.

    Happy Holidays!

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    Here is some video of the burn http://www.rep-am.com/videos/112007/
    -------------------
    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
    -----------------------------------------------
    Genius has its limits, but stupidity is boundless.

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    The thing that continually astounds me is that this type of whacker nonsense is PROUDLY posted.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Why is it always the white heads that make us look stupid
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Why is it always the white heads that make us look stupid
    Seriously, that was my thought... how some officers somehow think that they are above the rules/standards/good practices????


    To have this actually posted on a public forum. Are they really that clueless that they are proud of this crap?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Default Morons

    How many times do we have to see a picture or video of a red neck fire chief turnout coat and his favourite pair of jeans!

    Take a look at this one.....it could have gonna horribly wrong.

    http://www.firehelmetcam.net/index.c...m=239&titles=0

    Watch the flashover front view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by winfire06 View Post
    How many times do we have to see a picture or video of a red neck fire chief turnout coat and his favourite pair of jeans!

    Take a look at this one.....it could have gonna horribly wrong.

    http://www.firehelmetcam.net/index.c...m=239&titles=0

    Watch the flashover front view.


    Until several are killed, even then they will probably not get the message.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

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    Go put your pussy 2 1/2" lines away kiddies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by winfire06 View Post
    How many times do we have to see a picture or video of a red neck fire chief turnout coat and his favourite pair of jeans!

    Take a look at this one.....it could have gonna horribly wrong.

    http://www.firehelmetcam.net/index.c...m=239&titles=0

    Watch the flashover front view.
    In that series of videos, it appears that there actually two seperate flashovers/smoke ignitions recorded.
    Same house with two events, or seperate similiar houses with their own events.
    Trying to make out the address on top of the porches, square thing/HVAC? on B side and location of tree on D side.
    The top video looks like the front/A side with the porch rails partialy removed, but it's labled as "Previous Days Fire".

    One house, same event, different views?
    One house, different events?
    Different houses, different events?

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    Point I wanted to get across was live fire is a vital tool to training firefighters but we need to have the right people leading them.

    Just because old Billy Bob has been the Fire Chief for 15 years doesn't mean he knows anything about firefighting. He was probably the one asleep at the AGM when they were voting for Fire Chief. ( guess what they picked him ).

    Aquired stuctures for Live Fire. Two word " be careful. " Follow 1403 dot your i's and cross the t's.

    All this blahh blahh blahh about how safe were all being now really shows through from all these helmet cam videos that are showing were not.

    If I were running the live fire I linked to this forum I would hope that my boss would have taken my badge and said thanks, here is the road.

    Letting a building flashover w/ firefighters inside in training!?.

    I'd love to talk to someone from this department who thought this training was awesome.

    Give yer head a shake.

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    Who in their right mind thinks it will be good for their department to post stuff like this on YouTube? Once again I must shake my head and wonder when are we going to learn? That is embarassing to anyone who is in the fire service.

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    Dumb stuff like this is why it's getting harder and harder to do live fire training. This dept should get the WTF of the month award, and I have to wonder why the only 2 morons with out gear on were the ones in the fire building without the proper PPE and a gas can?


    Look at the picture in the end of the show and everyone has gear on but those 2! WTF??

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    Quote Originally Posted by dday05 View Post
    Dumb stuff like this is why it's getting harder and harder to do live fire training. This dept should get the WTF of the month award, and I have to wonder why the only 2 morons with out gear on were the ones in the fire building without the proper PPE and a gas can?


    Look at the picture in the end of the show and everyone has gear on but those 2! WTF??
    It's because they have sooooo much experience and are such good firemen that they don't need gear. I see this ridiculous sh** all the time at live burns. From what I've seen, it's usually officers out of the 30 year old range. I guess it has to do with old school v. new school. I've heard people say that the bunker pants wear them down too much; well, if that's the case, then they need to either retire or hit the stair-stepper.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

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    Go put your pussy 2 1/2" lines away kiddies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer343

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    How about those clowns with the PPV and the flashover... I'm not a fan at all of PPV and I don't know a lot about it, but if fire is self venting out a window is there any reason to use a PPV fan???????????

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefiftyfive View Post
    How about those clowns with the PPV and the flashover... I'm not a fan at all of PPV and I don't know a lot about it, but if fire is self venting out a window is there any reason to use a PPV fan???????????
    There's a little more to it than that. You've got a "training burn" where they're burning carpet padding on a sofa. You've got two vent holes, one of which a nozzle team is spraying water into. Then you put a fan up to the front door (I question if it's placed correctly), pressurize the structure and expect all of that pressure to vent out of a single window. At least that's my observation.

    However, it's still a bunch of geniuses practicing a tactic they apparently don't have a complete understanding of burning materials that should be used in a training burn (remember what they burned in Baltimore?) and then place opposing streams. I still can't believe they bragged that they survived something that kills firefighters.

    While I'm not the biggest fan of NFPA, if it weren't for our own stupidity we wouldn't need someone to tell us what to do and how to do it safely.

  24. #24
    It looks hot in there
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefiftyfive View Post
    How about those clowns with the PPV and the flashover... I'm not a fan at all of PPV and I don't know a lot about it, but if fire is self venting out a window is there any reason to use a PPV fan???????????
    There is only one reason to use PPV.








    Well after the fire is out, overhaul is nearly complete and you just need some smoke removal. That's it..as far as I'm concerned, it should never be used for anything else but that.
    'Adversus incendia excubias nocturnas vigilesque commentus est"

    www.vententersearch.com

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    I believe it was a video like this that appeared on You Tube, I think this year, of a training burn where the person was caught with a small container of diesel fuel in his hand. State officals saw this, or it was brought to their attention and action was taken against that officer and the department. That occured in Florida. Maybe the same thing could happen here. When this type of violation occures it needs to be brought to someones attention before another firefighter gets hurt or killed.

    T.J.

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