Thread: Tampering

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    Angry Tampering

    We have had quite a few times lately where "someone" has tampered with our airpacks and other equipment. Either taking the high pressure hose off completely or loosening it or pulling all the straps tight. They are doing this to ensure that we are doing our checks. They have been confronted about it and they have said that it is perfectly legal and they have every right to do this. I was just wondering if this is true or not? In my opinion if they want to do this they should do something that would not be life-threating to either us or a person that are there to help.

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    Do your equipment checks.
    Document the tampering.
    Bring it up as a safety concern with the Union.
    Report it to the Chief.

    And if you catch the son of a bitch doing it, please broadcast it throughout the Department.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Do your equipment checks.
    Document the tampering.
    Bring it up as a safety concern with the Union.
    Report it to the Chief.

    And if you catch the son of a bitch doing it, please broadcast it throughout the Department.
    That's the way to do it!!!

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    I do not remember the details, but I seem to remember someone got brought up on criminal charges for this a couple of years ago. They were disconnecting the high pressure hose to ensure checks as well. This is negligence. The strap thing is just plain old stupid.
    Jason Brooks
    IAFF Local 2388
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    I told the guys to start documenting everything and keeping track of everything. I wish there was a way to catch them doing it, to bad I cant access the hidden cameras that are watching our every move.haha

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    There was a thread on here about a year or so ago dealing with this very topic. It turns out that the management of the department was doing this intentionally to ensure that the members were doing thier daily checks, and the management made no apoligies for it. Pretty good way to get rid of morale if you ask me....
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    This is about the most assinine thing I have ever heard of. The straps you might be able to get away with, but disconnecting hoses is just wrong. How does the jerk doing this know that there will not be a call between the time they pull this prank and the time someone would typically do their daily check. I have had many calls during the shift change. I don't know if this could be called legal or illegal but a court of law could find the individual and the department liable in a lawsuit after an incident gone bad, be it a civilian injured or killed due to delay, property distroyed that could have been saved or worst case for us, a LODD. There are many other ways to make sure daily checks are being done, such as fire officers taking part in their peoples' activities!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireman81638 View Post
    Either taking the high pressure hose off completely ..............
    Check with the manufacturer. With Scott systems, you need to have a course taught by Scott to conduct maintenance and start disconnecting hoses. Which if this person is doing it, and is not properly trained....can void any warranty on the SCBA, which will leave the Dept footing the bill for any damage to the SCBA and any injury that might occur to personnel. I think the Chief of the Dept might want to know about that. Especially in our sue happy society.

    This is outright dangerous and has the potential to injury seriously people. O-rings can become dislodged, proper torque not put back on couplings etc etc. I've been hurt and seen the damage HP air can do to skin when either of those situations occurs.
    Last edited by DocVBFDE14; 12-13-2007 at 10:07 PM. Reason: spelling
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    If I was ever killed or injured as a result of B.S. like that, my wife would own the city/dept.

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    Print a copy of this post on the station bulletin board. Hilight all of the responses from the firefighters who have posted about how stupid it is to tamper with another's safety gear.
    I am an advocate of making sure you are ready to respond. I also know that not everyone checks their equipment.
    THere is an unwritten rule in the fire station that YOU DO NOT TOUCH SOMEONE ELSE'S SAFETY GEAR!

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    Get into the habit whenever you pack has been tampered with fill out a report to that point. Documentation! Same with any of your gear. As stated by prior a posting there are certian specs for scott packs, if you are not qualified to repair it turn it in to be sent to the factory rep for repairs puting it out of service. In doing this it will cost the department money. If there are multiple packs in this condition then when they are all taken out of service for repairs and it get to hundreds of dollars then there will be an investigation. Someone will get a reprimand probably 1st time but if it continues they might get canned. They want to kill you get them fired. What happens if they do it just prior to your shift and before you get a chance to inspect it (because you had checked it before you left last shift) and you go to make entry on a call coming in as you are? Your life has just been put in danger. Do everything legally you can to remove the problem, before it removes you.
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    Wow this i think is a huge safety risk because what if you walk in the door to start your shift and get structure fire before you are able to do your equipment checks? That could put fire fighters in danger. You should def deal with this soon

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    What happens if you did you EQ checks and the idiots didn't see you do them and then they go and does all that???

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireman81638 View Post
    Either taking the high pressure hose off completely or loosening it or pulling all the straps tight. .
    Check with the manufacturer. With Scott systems, you need to have a course taught by Scott to conduct maintenance and start disconnecting hoses. Which if this person is doing it, and is not properly trained....can void any warranty on the SCBA, which will leave the Dept footing the bill for any damage to the SCBA and any injury that might occur to personnel. I think the Chief of the Dept might want to know about that. Especially in our sue happy society.
    Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I didn't take it that someone was actually disconnecting fixed connections, but rather just disconnecting the hose from the cylinder. We do this every time we change out a cylinder, don't we? How does this void the manufacturer's warranty?

    Now, for my thoughts on this. Are you absolutely sure that someone is tampering with the equipment? Can you prove conclusively that the packs are not, in fact, just being put back in service incorrectly? I catch this all the time in my department. You get back to the station at o-dark-thirty after a call, you replace/fill cylinders, you're in a hurry to get the packs back on the truck and go get a shower and get back to bed. You get hurried, you get careless. Any of you willing to say that this absolutely does not happen in your departments? I don't think anyone can say that they never make mistakes. So is someone tampering, or is someone just careless? It's easy to say that someone must be tampering with the equipment, because WE couldn't have made a mistake. Just something to think about.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream and I hope you don't find this too crazy is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmleblanc View Post
    Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I didn't take it that someone was actually disconnecting fixed connections, but rather just disconnecting the hose from the cylinder. We do this every time we change out a cylinder, don't we? How does this void the manufacturer's warranty?
    Oh, no no. I am not refering to the HP hose attaching the harness and circuit to the cylinder. I am refering to the HP hose on the Tyco/Scott that runs from the cylinder connection and attaches to reducer, and the LP hose that runs from the reducer to the 2nd stage regulator. Requires a 5/8ths inch wrench Even loosening those two attachments without returning the proper torque to the nuts can lead to hoses popping off. Not saying this individual is, just an example that if those hoses are being tampered with, the Dept can be found liable for any damages that result from a failure. Navy found that out. One ship paid out over $8,000 from attempting to do maintenance and take parts off one bad pack and use them on another.
    Last edited by DocVBFDE14; 12-15-2007 at 09:46 PM.
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    Some other analogies....

    Is it a good idea to ensure rig checks are done by emptying the fuel or booster tanks, or maybe hiding the hydrant wrenches?

    Is it a good idea to ensure medic drug boxes are checked by removing the epi and a few needle sizes, or maybe remove all the ECG lead pads? How about putting only empty 02 bottles onto the bone box?

    Is it a good idea to ensure cops double-check the suspects are secured in the backseat by taking the cuffs off of the perp once in a while?

    This is unadulterated BS. Document EVERYTHING. Use a camera phone for pictures. Dates, times, be very detailed. Once the person is exposed, I would hope the brothers would deal with this mutt appropriately using any and all unofficial means necessary.
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    I know a few FD's around here that would have a party in honor of the a-hole who was screwing with the equipment. Said party would involve a blanket and towels wrapped around bars of soap.

    Of course, I am not condoning violence against anyone.

    Document, document, document. It cannot be said enough.

    Is the chief aware of this practice or is he the one doing it? The "someone" said it was legal, have him produce documentation supporting this dangerous practice.
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 12-16-2007 at 12:51 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocVBFDE14 View Post
    Oh, no no. I am not refering to the HP hose attaching the harness and circuit to the cylinder. I am refering to the HP hose on the Tyco/Scott that runs from the cylinder connection and attaches to reducer, and the LP hose that runs from the reducer to the 2nd stage regulator. Requires a 5/8ths inch wrench
    OK, thanks for the clarification. Yes, in that case I would say someone is tampering with the equipment.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream and I hope you don't find this too crazy is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

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