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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Amen! I would add only one thing to your statement; aggressively punish those who violate the gun laws. This pansy slap-on-the-wrist crap isn't going to cut it.

    The 14 year-old boy that took the gun into a Joplin, MO middle school, fired it, and tried to shoot the principle is still awaiting trial. While our judiciary is taking their sweet time (allowing the defense to stall), there are a number of people in the community calling for a light punishment (probaton), because "he's only a child." Apparently, there are those in our society who are naive enough to believe a child cannot kill.
    The juvenile justice system, in most cases, is not really set up to punish the offender. It is set up to rehabilitate the offender. If punishment is truly the issue, the child is certified by the court to be prosecuted as an adult. That is the process currently being played out in the Jopln case.

    In NJ, the hurdle that the prosecution must clear in seeking to prosecute a minor in adult court is proving that the child cannot be rehabilitated by the time he is 19. In most cases-especially first offenses, it is almost impossible to show this.

    In the case you cited, the boy was certified to be tried as an adult. The defense appealed the ruling. The case is on hold while the defense is preparing the appeal. This is hardly "stalling".

    The judge is most likely allowing the defense to put together their expert testimony. This is something that can be time consuming and expensive. If the judge does not allow this, he faces an almost certain overturn from the appellate court. It's called due process.

    I am not at all commenting on the guilt or innocence of this child. I am commenting on the process.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.


  2. #62
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    I think that a lot of your laws vary from state to state so I'll only address a bit of additional info to what George puts out. In Canada, we have whats called the Young Offenders Act, which basically operates on the premise that any offender under 18 cannot form the intent or does not fully comprehend the consequences of their action. As a result, you have gang bangers, punks, just plain no gooders commtitting crimes up to and including killing of all family members, then pleading YOA and getting out of closed custody, ( basically dormitory with cable and rec facilities) at 18, no record and free to go their merry way. We don't have quite the problems with guns up in Canada, knives seem to be weapons of choice. Possibly because the paperwork to get a handgun is nearly insurmountable, only people with proper paperwork ( Say 5 $100 bills) can get. Crimes of violence are quite high, some Canadian cities have passed Detroit which I understand used to be considered Murder Capital of US. As far as I am concerned, any criminal act using violence or threat of violence needs to be dealt with extremely harshly

  3. #63
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    As a result, you have gang bangers, punks, just plain no gooders commtitting crimes up to and including killing of all family members, then pleading YOA and getting out of closed custody, ( basically dormitory with cable and rec facilities) at 18...
    Hah, in the People's Republic of Commiefornia, you get that ("dormitory with cable TV, rec facilities, library, free AA/AS degree, etc") at age 18, 25, 32, 44, 63... and every age in-between. Hell, felons are living better than the lower-class population that hasn't done anything...
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  4. #64
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    As a result, you have gang bangers, punks, just plain no gooders commtitting crimes up to and including killing of all family members, then pleading YOA and getting out of closed custody, ( basically dormitory with cable and rec facilities) at 18...
    Hah, in the People's Republic of Commiefornia, you get that ("dormitory with cable TV, rec facilities, library, free AA/AS degree, etc") at age 18, 25, 32, 44, 63... and every age in-between. Hell, felons are living better than the lower-class population that hasn't done anything wrong or criminal...
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  5. #65
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    I have been a Teacher in a middle school for 26 years. It is the largest school district in NY.

    I would not want to carry a concealed weapon because I know I wouldn't be able to handle it. I would also fear someone stealing it from me. (Staff included...every profession has it's bad apples.)

    A friend who was NYPD brought me to a firing range once and I tried to use a gun. Not happening for me!

    We have security personnel in all our buildings. We also have "Intruder Alert" drills where they lock the building down and everyone must "hide" in their rooms or wherever they are at the time.

    Another drill we have is where we leave the building, if deemed safer. Obviously, these drills may not help during a real crisis but it gives us some sort of practice. All this started since Columbine.

    When I was growing up, all we had were fire drills and air raid drills. LOL.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by AHAPPYMOM View Post
    I have been a Teacher in a middle school for 26 years. It is the largest school district in NY.

    I would not want to carry a concealed weapon because I know I wouldn't be able to handle it. I would also fear someone stealing it from me. (Staff included...every profession has it's bad apples.)

    A friend who was NYPD brought me to a firing range once and I tried to use a gun. Not happening for me!

    We have security personnel in all our buildings. We also have "Intruder Alert" drills where they lock the building down and everyone must "hide" in their rooms or wherever they are at the time.

    Another drill we have is where we leave the building, if deemed safer. Obviously, these drills may not help during a real crisis but it gives us some sort of practice. All this started since Columbine.

    When I was growing up, all we had were fire drills and air raid drills. LOL.


    My point exactly. Let the teachers teach. We all have our jobs to do.








    What is implied by this thread suggestion in South Carolina is that law enforcement cannot do it's job. B.S. They can. Look to them. Teachers whether they can,or are teachable,or feel the need,should not be armed in the classroom.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by AHAPPYMOM View Post
    Another drill we have is where we leave the building, if deemed safer. Obviously, these drills may not help during a real crisis but it gives us some sort of practice. All this started since Columbine.
    I remember Columbine. The local school system here reacted by setting up mobile walk-thru metal detectors at the entrances and having more LEOs present on the campuses (no, they didn't hire more, they just pulled some off of the streets). We had drills, including one where, upon cue by a secret code word over the intercoms, we cut the lights off, lock the doors, and go to the back of the classroom and kept quiet. Yep, I was quite confident that we would be totally safe if our H.S. campus was ever invaded by a complete brain-dead idiot with no deductive abilities. I mean, pretty soon he would have had to realize that there must be students in at least one classroom that day. Again, this was probably another great idea from some quack author of a book on survival techniques and curling up into little balls, and the Dept. of Education ran with it. Eventually, maybe less than a month later, the extra resource officers were returned to life on the beat, and those metal detectors, well, we don't have a clue what happened to them.

    On a brighter note, I salute you for thus far surviving 26 years of dealing with middle schoolers.
    "Yeah, but as I've always said, this country has A.D.D." - Denis Leary

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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodSendRain View Post
    On a brighter note, I salute you for thus far surviving 26 years of dealing with middle schoolers.
    Thanks ~ I also teach emotionally disturbed teens.

    GodSendRain ~ One of the questions the staff had when we were getting "training" was: What if the intruder or deranged person was one of US? They didn't have any answers.

  9. #69
    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AHAPPYMOM View Post
    Thanks ~ I also teach emotionally disturbed teens.

    GodSendRain ~ One of the questions the staff had when we were getting "training" was: What if the intruder or deranged person was one of US? They didn't have any answers.
    I would imagine, based on previous school shootings/incidents all over the world, that the chances would be quite high that the threat would be coming from an insider, be it student, teacher, previous student .... So they would be familiar with the lock-down procedures. I suppose the possibility exists that the perpetrator wouldn't be in the right state of mind while executing his/her plan to remember those details in the heat of the moment though.

    Thanks for sharing your teacher's viewpoint with us. You touched on one of my main objections to arming teachers ... the gun could so easily be stolen and used for the very scenario it was meant to stop.
    September 11th - Never Forget

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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by RspctFrmCalgary View Post
    ...You touched on one of my main objections to arming teachers ... the gun could so easily be stolen and used for the very scenario it was meant to stop.
    Especially when PMS kicks in, on the same day, for a dozen of us. LOL.

  11. #71
    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AHAPPYMOM View Post
    Especially when PMS kicks in, on the same day, for a dozen of us. LOL.
    LOL well there IS that.

    But I was thinking more along the lines of a disgruntled student getting easy access to a weapon than staff or faculty members.
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by AHAPPYMOM View Post
    Thanks ~ I also teach emotionally disturbed teens.

    GodSendRain ~ One of the questions the staff had when we were getting "training" was: What if the intruder or deranged person was one of US? They didn't have any answers.
    That was a unique question, but wouldn't it have been more of a rhetorical, perhaps even comical, question? I'm not completely surprised that they had no answers to that question - I wouldn't either - making the assumption that everyone attending those "training" sessions had a preventative mindset, and not the mischevious mindset of working against the security measures discussed and plotting to turn the system over on itself. Certainly there would be a very legitimate, real-life concern behind such a question if you had/have staff members or students exhibiting those latter, shall I say, unfavorable characteristics; it's always a good idea to refer those mental time-bombs to counseling, rather than simply hope they don't flip out one day (whether they have firearms or not). I had teachers who would become frustrated over the increased demands put on them by the teacher review and curriculum committees, so much so that they would come into the classroom griping and sighing openly in the presence of students, but I never once felt that those teachers, who loved to teach regardless of the stress and would never hurt the students placed under their care (teachers not unlike yourself, I suppose), would ever get deranged over it and go off the deep end.

    Regardless, this may be old news for the state of South Carolina (this bill was introduced in May-ish?).
    "Yeah, but as I've always said, this country has A.D.D." - Denis Leary

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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodSendRain View Post
    That was a unique question, but wouldn't it have been more of a rhetorical, perhaps even comical, question?
    Yes. My sense of humor often carries me through. (Note my PMS reference.)

    The staff of 140 in my building is well versed in watching for signs of stress in any individual. This includes custodial staff, cafeteria staff, students, etc. We have averted one or two situations which had the potential for disaster.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodSendRain View Post
    That was a unique question, but wouldn't it have been more of a rhetorical, perhaps even comical, question? I'm not completely surprised that they had no answers to that question - I wouldn't either - making the assumption that everyone attending those "training" sessions had a preventative mindset, and not the mischevious mindset of working against the security measures discussed and plotting to turn the system over on itself. Certainly there would be a very legitimate, real-life concern behind such a question if you had/have staff members or students exhibiting those latter, shall I say, unfavorable characteristics; it's always a good idea to refer those mental time-bombs to counseling, rather than simply hope they don't flip out one day (whether they have firearms or not). I had teachers who would become frustrated over the increased demands put on them by the teacher review and curriculum committees, so much so that they would come into the classroom griping and sighing openly in the presence of students, but I never once felt that those teachers, who loved to teach regardless of the stress and would never hurt the students placed under their care (teachers not unlike yourself, I suppose), would ever get deranged over it and go off the deep end.

    Regardless, this may be old news for the state of South Carolina (this bill was introduced in May-ish?).


    The State Assembly is about to start their second year of this session. I'll get an update.

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