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    Question Triple Combination Pumper..

    Engineers,

    What gives a pumper the classification as a "Triple Combination Pumper". I tried to search the forums but nothing solid on what the classification is. Thank you to all!

    Be safe and take care!!

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    A "triple combo" means that the apparatus has a pump, hose and water tank. A quad would have a pump, tank hose and a full compliment of ground ladders. A quint would have a tank, hose, pump, groung ladders and an aerial device. There are variations to the ground ladder requirements for quints because of the lack of space.

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    Default Thank you

    Thank you app. It's what I thought...

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    Cool Triple Pumper.....

    Our Amertek "Triple Pumper" has the ability to perform in a CFR (Crash Fire Rescue/Mobile Pump) Mode, Struc (Structure/Fixed Position) Mode and also carries Class B Foam. It can also perform and is setup for Wildland fires. So I guess it depends on what part of the Country you're from.
    As far as classifying an Engine as a "Triple Pumper" based on the fact that it has a pump, hose and a tank seems odd to me since that is the basic make-up of an Engine..... Do any companies even make Engines/Pumpers without the capabilities to hold hose, have a tank and pump? Why have a pump without a way to get water onto the fire or out of the pump? Just curious that's all.....
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyboy View Post
    As far as classifying an Engine as a "Triple Pumper" based on the fact that it has a pump, hose and a tank seems odd to me since that is the basic make-up of an Engine..... Do any companies even make Engines/Pumpers without the capabilities to hold hose, have a tank and pump? Why have a pump without a way to get water onto the fire or out of the pump? Just curious that's all.....
    Like so many other terms in the fire service, this one has its roots in history. Yes, fire engines used to consist of only a pump (at first hand drawn, hand pumped, then later horse drawn and steam operated, and finally mounted on an automotive chassis). So in the early days you'd roll an engine company, and a hose company, and a ladder company, and each of those companies would carry just that very specific complement of equipment. Nobody would carry water, all operations had to be done from the hydrant.

    Later, with larger, more powerful apparatus, they were able to haul all these basics on one piece, so it eventually evolved into what we consider the "standard" fire engine of today, which is, technically, a triple-combination unit.
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    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream and I hope you don't find this too crazy is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
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    Default Triple Combination Pumper

    Around here most of the pumpers carry 1000 gallons, other parts of the region and i guess the country call these tankers, or pumper tankers. Not to show my age..lol, but a " quad " quadruple combination pumping engine carries, a pump, tank over 300 gallons, hose, and a truck company complement of ground ladders. Thus a quint is all the above plus some type of an aerial ladder device.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Engine305 View Post
    Around here most of the pumpers carry 1000 gallons, other parts of the region and i guess the country call these tankers, or pumper tankers. Not to show my age..lol, but a " quad " quadruple combination pumping engine carries, a pump, tank over 300 gallons, hose, and a truck company complement of ground ladders. Thus a quint is all the above plus some type of an aerial ladder device.

    Our newest engine qualifies as a quad. Chiefengineer11's newest (and perhaps prior) engine also qualifies as a quad as well, if I'm not mistaken. There's a few of us still building/buying engines that will get some truck work done in a pinch, and carries enough ground ladders to qualify as a quad.

    Now if they had decided to replace our ladder when it failed its UL, we wouldn't be so interested in having the extra ground ladders. I won't start whining about that here.
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    Cool

    How about a twin agent apparatus. when they refer to this , does that mean they also carry foam? thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by stingerfire View Post
    How about a twin agent apparatus. when they refer to this , does that mean they also carry foam? thanks
    A twin agent unit uses a sort of 1-2 punch to knock down and supress flammable liquid fires. Typically this would be some sort of dry chemical (most usually Purple K) and then a finished foam solution (usually AFFF). My understanding is that both agents are deployed simultaneoulsy through the nozzle or turret.
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    My many thanks to rfdmn09 for posting his question.

    I've held off on asking what the heck a "quint" is. I thought it was a manufacturer, or some kind of elaborate piece of equipment, or what not. I didn't, so I wouldn't look "dumb" or whatever.

    Now that I know what a "quint" is, I can sleep tonight. We have never had one, nor asked or spec'd one.

    Thanks appcap1 for the education.

    FM1

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    Default Pumper Classifications:

    FYI: I looked but I didn't see anyone mentioning a DUPLEX pumper. The one below is a 1938 ALF-400 series. There are TWO 1500gpm pumps, one in the cowl powered by the truck's engine, and the one at the rear is powered by the "stationary" engine seen behind the cab.
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    Default How many & type ladders?

    Depositing my $.02
    At my work facility (Oil refinery) we have 3 Engines that would normally be considered "triple combinations" like almost every other Engine out there. Only they do not carry any water, they all are rolling with 750 to 1000 gallons of foam concentrate.
    I also remember seeing a few "Water Supply " Engines from New England that had front mount pumps and very large LDH hose loads (including about 100' of hard sleeve) and no water tanks. Their only purpose was to drop line and secure a supply/draft.
    I know that the tern "full compliment" of ground ladders has been thrown around here talking about Quints and Quads as well as Trucks. I believe the 'compliment' for Quints and dry Ladder Trucks have different components and total length. How about Quads? Does anyone here have the latest rundown on ladder requirements for Quads, Quints and Trucks?
    Thanks in advance.

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    Default Triple Combination/Duplex in operation:

    Here you can see a video of a "Triple Combination" and the "Duplex" pumper [in post 11] in operation...courtesy of Prelinger Archives and LAFD.

    http://www.archive.org/details/YourFire1949

    Last edited by 1OLDTIMER; 09-28-2008 at 10:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tribe9a View Post
    Does anyone here have the latest rundown on ladder requirements for Quads, Quints and Trucks?
    Thanks in advance.
    Quints must have 85' of ground ladders and aerials must have 115'. NFPA does not define quads.
    Last edited by firepiper1; 09-29-2008 at 09:37 AM.
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    Thumbs up Quads:

    Quote Originally Posted by firepiper1 View Post
    Quints must have 85' of ground ladders and aerials must have 115'. NFPA does not define quads.
    I assume because they [quads] are not in use much anymore. Quads came into being in the '20's with a pump, hose, chemical tank and assortment of ground ladders of about 250ft...minus a aerial device. The rig was located at either a hydrant or in front of the fire, being rather usless...as a combination quint is. My best [uneducated] guess...
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    What was/are duplex pumpers used for? Why two seperate pumps?

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    Lightbulb Duplex Pumpers:

    Quote Originally Posted by edge1317 View Post
    What was/are duplex pumpers used for? Why two seperate pumps?
    The ability to reduce the number of pumping engines at large commercial and/or industrial fires...by being able to pump 3000gpm from a single engine/source, given enough supply was available.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfdmn09 View Post
    Eng,

    What gives a pumper the classification as a "Triple Combination Pumper". I tried to search the forums but nothing solid on what the classification is. Thank you to all!

    Be safe and take care!!
    It has 3 things

    1 - 1000GPM or higher

    2 - Supply hose. 500 ft or more

    3 - 500 gallons of water or higher

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1OLDTIMER View Post
    I assume because they [quads] are not in use much anymore. Quads came into being in the '20's with a pump, hose, chemical tank and assortment of ground ladders of about 250ft...minus a aerial device. The rig was located at either a hydrant or in front of the fire, being rather usless...as a combination quint is. My best [uneducated] guess...
    Does a "quad" stipulate that it has to have a chemical tank, or will a water tank suffice to call it a "quad"??

    All of our engines have a water tank, pump, hose, and several ladders, of different lengths. As well, they all have foam capabilities.

    Are they considered "quints" or "quads"??

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Does a "quad" stipulate that it has to have a chemical tank, or will a water tank suffice to call it a "quad"??

    All of our engines have a water tank, pump, hose, and several ladders, of different lengths. As well, they all have foam capabilities.

    Are they considered "quints" or "quads"??
    Sounds just like our urban vehicles. Just call it a 'Pumper', like us. Much easier!
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    Quote Originally Posted by volfirie View Post
    Sounds just like our urban vehicles. Just call it a 'Pumper', like us. Much easier!
    As do we volfirie, as do we, just a bit over your northen border !

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Does a "quad" stipulate that it has to have a chemical tank, or will a water tank suffice to call it a "quad"??

    All of our engines have a water tank, pump, hose, and several ladders, of different lengths. As well, they all have foam capabilities.

    Are they considered "quints" or "quads"??
    A quad is (or was) essentially a quint minus the stick. Both of our engines come close to qualifying as quads, because they have the pump and the requiste amount of hose and water. One has 95' of ground ladders and the other has 120'.

    Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    A quad is (or was) essentially a quint minus the stick. Both of our engines come close to qualifying as quads, because they have the pump and the requiste amount of hose and water. One has 95' of ground ladders and the other has 120'.
    I guess for the discussion on deffinations [today], we agree that a quint is a quad...with a MECHANICAL AERIAL DEVICE of at last 75ft. A service ladder is a MECHANICAL AERIAL w/ground ladders, no pump, tank or hose. Right?
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    Smile Hmmmmmm

    I thought this one was dead. It's amazing how some old posts get revived in these forums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1OLDTIMER View Post
    I guess for the discussion on deffinations [today], we agree that a quint is a quad...with a MECHANICAL AERIAL DEVICE of at last 75ft. A service ladder is a MECHANICAL AERIAL w/ground ladders, no pump, tank or hose. Right?
    I recall from years back seeing "City Service" trucks which were really nothing more than a large collection of ground ladders and some hand tools but no stick. The ladders were usually wood and included at least one 50' Bangor ladder (with poles). The hand tools included a battering ram and a Detroit door opener along with other armstrong equipment. No such thing as hydraulic tools (even Porta-Powers) or power saws. And people actually wanted to be truckies!

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