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  1. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    The difference in each group is the peripheral plumbing (intake castings, number of discharges, etc. Within each group the cost to go to the largest gpm capability is little more than the cost of the plumbing. One reason some people don't go above 1500 (us included) is that it takes two sets of sleeves to conduct a service test.

    Gregg Geske, npfd801, anything to contribute?

    Stay safe out there, everyone goes home.
    I think you could have more to gain if you went with a pedestal or "unmanifolded" style of pump. For example, the Hale DSD series is rated from 750 to 1500 gpm. The similar Waterous I believe goes up to 1250 gpm. Your builder builds both the intake and discharge manifolds out of galvanized or stainless piping, instead of the pump coming complete with this plumbing for the discharges.

    So if the housing and basic guts of the pump are the same for all its rated flows (and I do not know this for a fact), and FEMA refuses to allow the higher discharge rating, have the apparatus builder fabricate the discharge manifold with capped outlets so you can add additional outlets at a later date to get the max rating of the pump. In the grand sceme of things, it wouldn't be THAT hard to add additional discharges to the sides of the pump or maybe to the front of the hosebed. You likely won't be less than 330 horsepower, and that will drive 1250 gpm fine. Just make sure you size your pump to tank adequately to use the flow you want to achieve.

    Why the grant folks wouldn't allow you to bump pump capacity for minimal impact on overall apparatus cost, I don't know. Sell it for safety, justify that maybe the tanker could be utilized in a relay pumping scenario in certain circumstances, or be a backup pump that could pump through the attack engine if a failure occurred... If you have only one engine, this could be nice little safety net.

    Everything I've seen when my department needed to tweak something on our grants (none of which were rigs though) it seemed like our contact was more than willing to work with us, as long as we didn't stray too far from the original intent.

    Surely someone reading these forums has been through this, and can offer more. I would start first by contacting your FEMA contact, and see what that individual has to say. It isn't like you're asking for additional money, right?
    I'm just throwing some ideas out for more discussion...
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    I think you could have more to gain if you went with a pedestal or "unmanifolded" style of pump. For example, the Hale DSD series is rated from 750 to 1500 gpm. The similar Waterous I believe goes up to 1250 gpm. Your builder builds both the intake and discharge manifolds out of galvanized or stainless piping, instead of the pump coming complete with this plumbing for the discharges.
    Good points. I still think in terms of CM(U)/CS(U) or QLD/QSD.

  3. #23
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    Default Rating of Pump

    Brothers - some great suggestions. But how many pumpers have you seen with a 1250 pump and have the standard discharge compliment: 2 on the left, 2 on the right, 2 preconnects to the rear, 3" deck gun, 2 2" crosslays and many have a 2" front discharge. Now, if we rate on the number of 2.5 discharges, then you have 7 - which would give you an output, if all are used, at 1750 gpm.
    Now all of us know that a pump only puts out what it can get in. Which is why, in order to rate a pump from draft in excess of 1500 gpm you need two 6" intakes in the water - am I right?
    My information, if correct, is that the Waterous CS and the Hale QMID pumps use the same componentry from 750 gpm through 1250 gpm. The major difference is the inlet (4.5", 5" or 6") and the outlets. When doing the pump acceptance test, UL (or other certifing agency) performance test, to certify the pump at 750 would require only the use of a 6" x 5" adapter and the use of three discharges. My understanding is that you won't get full ISO rating for a pumper, but the object is to provide enough water to save lives and put out fires- right? We had a new pumper several years ago, 1250 gpm capacity, that pumped nearly 1500 gpm from draft with a single inlet. Yet, it was a 1250 pump.
    Is my thinking flawed here?
    Merry Christmas all!

  4. #24
    Forum Member Engine305's Avatar
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    Cool Pump

    We had a 1980 Ford C/Grumman, Great Eastern that was a 750 2 stage. Around 1985 we put 6" suction and a 90 degreee elbow on for a cheap side/front suction and she would pump 1250 gpm all day long ( or as long as the NFPA required 2 hour gas tank would let her )

  5. #25
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    Smile

    That may work in New Jersey but try doing it in Colorado.

    Merry Christmas

  6. #26
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    What the hell are you doing in Colorado? T.C.

  7. #27
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    Smile

    Merry Christmas T.C.

    Slim pickens on the East side with guys buying Smeal's and what not!!!!!!!!!!

    No, I'm home but a few years ago we were trying to get a 1500 Hale to pump 1500 at 11,000 feet and it just wouldn't happen. Had to derate it to 1250. Drop down to 6,000 feet and it was fine.

    Have a safe and merry Christmas and a happy New Year.

  8. #28
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Tony,one word:PROPANE! Adds fifty RPM at altitude.Get all you can get.And quit blaming the one guy who's on your side for your(collectively)inability to interpret one simple term;Spartan with foam.Remember you've got to work off your excesses after New Years,so if you go easy now you'll be in fighting trim by the time we see you in PA later this Spring.And Merry Christmas to you and yours,T.C.

  9. #29

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    Default Crimson vs. Rosenbauer

    Our department has just taken deliery of a Rosenbauer 75 Ft. Quint. I did tons of research on aerials for some time prior to our purchasing this unit. I feel this unit is as good as any I have seen. I have looked at just about all brand name units and I feel Rosenbauer offers more bang for the buck(just as you said) than any I have looked at. I dont have any first hand info on the Crimson, but I have seen some things they offer that I liked. Getting whats best for you department and community dollar is what its all about. Make sure you speck it to your department needs not the dealers sales pitch.

    God Bless

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